wolsey Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I hadn't noticed that we were discussing defamation? You weren't, but a 'private conversation' was in fact taking place in a public area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyorgan Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 As I don't subscribe to the Church Times, several people have now been kind enough to PM me... Can I politely ask if anyone could PM me with the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Coleman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 You weren't In which case, your point is not relevant. I may express my own views in a public area, and you may take exception to them and take me to task. They remain my private views. If I write to the paper and express them, they are then explicitly addressed to the general public, as readership. This forum's kind hospitality allows us all to learn not only about technicalities of our craft, but also about the joys and frustrations we suffer in pursuing it. Neither Mander's nor the contributors are selling theirs as the only view on an issue, and there is clear and intelligent guidance on what may or may not be posted. To return to the case in point: if there is any defamation taking place, it has been on the part of the anonymous writer to the Church Times. Now I have said my piece and will remain silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarber49 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can I politely ask if anyone could PM me with the article? And me, please, as I don't subscribe to the Church Times. Thanks, Stephen Barber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Lane Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Having read the original comment (or rather my wife having read it to me) and not having seen the replies (yet), I would like to put forward my opinion. When I was a Director of Music, and now in a freelance capacity I have a simple policy with wedding couples. It is their day, and we will provide anything they want, provided it is both legal and moral to do so. I often suggest that if they want something that might be better from a CD, maybe they would like this, I have no objections to this (we get paid anway!) However, we have been required to sing and play all sorts of things, such as the choir singing Wonderful World, and Star Wars and Indiana Jones on the organ. I aim to offer an efficient and comprehensive service to wedding couples, albeit at a price (I have set fees, and they're not cheap!) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjgrieveson Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I was most surprised to read a churchwarden in the piece calling this a 'very public forum'. At least I presume s/he meant this one. Hardly! It would be difficult to imagine anywhere less likely to come to the notice of those mentioned. But just in case, I will not divulge the details of the music for a child's memorial service today. (Not surprisingly, an organist was not required for this.) You never know who might be listening, and one would not wish to appear disgruntled or less than loyal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwv572 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Well, since 'retiring' from my DOM appointment at the end of 2008, I live in fond hope that I'll never have to play for another wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 In which case, your point is not relevant. I made a point and followed it with a supposition, neither of which was a snipe at you. I may express my own views in a public area, and you may take exception to them and take me to task. They remain my private views. If I write to the paper and express them, they are then explicitly addressed to the general public, as readership. You are of course correct, but my point - which I repeat as politely as I did earlier - is that while understanding that a fellow organist may be moved to 'sound off' on this forum (and, heaven knows, there is much I would like to get off my chest myself), an internet messageboard is not a closed club, and anything written here is available to the general public - even if it is not explicitly addressed to them. The moral of the Church Times saga is that one should think twice before pressing 'Send'. Anyone might be reading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 The moral of the Church Times saga is that one should think twice before pressing 'Send'. Anyone might be reading... Yes, indeed. It is this fact that decided me that I agree with those who would rather remain anonymous around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyorgan Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yes, indeed. It is this fact that decided me that I agree with those who would rather remain anonymous around here. Yes, I agree, although not necessairly for that reason. What would happen if someone did say something libellous behind an anonymous name? Would our hosts have to divulge our identities to a legal 3rd party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Lane Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Well, since 'retiring' from my DOM appointment at the end of 2008, I live in fond hope that I'll never have to play for another wedding. That's why my wedding fees are so high! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 What would happen if someone did say something libellous behind an anonymous name? Would our hosts have to divulge our identities to a legal 3rd party? I suspect that it wouldn't get as far as that and that our hosts would have removed the item once alerted to it. It's in their interest because, as I understand it, both author and publisher, i.e. the hosts, would be liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justadad Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Anyone is able to subscribe to the Church Times online for one week for £2. That's what I did. Best wishes J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I don't want to say too much, other than in the words of Gilbert "Things are seldom what they seem". Bye all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmbarton Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have no idea anymore what's being talked about here (maybe I shall now read it all again!), suffice to add: I have a simple policy with wedding couples. It is their day, and we will provide anything they want, provided it is both legal and moral to do so Generally I am in agreement with that. You are offering a service which the couple are paying for. Sometimes I've had to play things I don't like or don't necessarily think are appropriate, but I think it would have to be exceptional circumstances for me to refuse outright to play a certain piece. I would rather try to work with the couple to provide what they want (for example, recommending that a piece might sound better on the piano, or possibly better if they had a recorded version). I might not like what they choose, but if it was within my capablilities and they were paying the fee, then I wouldn't object. I came across a couple who had dreadful trouble with their wedding music recently and I didn't think that what they were asking for was that obscure; possibly just not 'run of the mill' wedding music. Nevertheless, they had given their choice of music a great deal of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geoff McMahon Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 What would happen if someone did say something libellous behind an anonymous name? Would our hosts have to divulge our identities to a legal 3rd party? It would depend on who the third party was, what libel had been said, and how quickly and appropriately we (Mander Organs) had responded to the first alert. Webmaster, Mander Organs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Echo Gamba Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I was booked last week, by a local funeral director for whom I do a lot of playing, to play next week for a funeral in a Congregational chapel with no regular organist. My wife took a call from the FD's this morning to say that "a chapel member has volunteered to play the piano so I can stand down, and the fee which I have been paid can count as payment for the next job I do for them." It is just as well that I had not turned down any other paid work on the basis of this booking! Obviously, had it been my "own" church I could have gone ahead and charged the fee. Being "unbooked" when standing in elsewhere seems to be a "grey area". What do other people do in these circumstances please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I was booked last week, by a local funeral director for whom I do a lot of playing, to play next week for a funeral in a Congregational chapel with no regular organist. My wife took a call from the FD's this morning to say that "a chapel member has volunteered to play the piano so I can stand down, and the fee which I have been paid can count as payment for the next job I do for them." It is just as well that I had not turned down any other paid work on the basis of this booking! Obviously, had it been my "own" church I could have gone ahead and charged the fee. Being "unbooked" when standing in elsewhere seems to be a "grey area". What do other people do in these circumstances please? That sounds very poor. You have my sympathy. With a bit of luck someone will notice that having their service accompanied by a volunteer at the piano is not quite the same experience. Unfortunately, however true this is, don't hold your breath waiting for someone to say it out loud! I don't know whether different treatment/ways apply in different parts of the country, but up here I have found at each and every 'guest' venue the folks have invariably been appreciative of whatever I can do. Sometimes there is very little indeed to do, but I do it as well as I can. I will never forget my maternal grandmother's funeral which I attended at the age of 14 or so. I had been having organ lessons for two years by then and vividly remember thinking that I could have done a more decent and respectable job than the gentleman who officiated upon that occasion. Organists are like furniture in that, if they do the job well, hardly anyone may notice. What you need is a situation where they have already had the chance to sample something well below your standard - then they'll be really glad to have you. Once bitten..... Maybe you should get more churches to use their volunteer pianist for a week or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Echo Gamba Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 That sounds very poor. You have my sympathy.With a bit of luck someone will notice that having their service accompanied by a volunteer at the piano is not quite the same experience. Unfortunately, however true this is, don't hold your breath waiting for someone to say it out loud! I don't know whether different treatment/ways apply in different parts of the country, but up here I have found at each and every 'quest' venue the folks have invariably been appreciative of whatever I can do. Sometimes there is very little indeed to do, but I do it as well as I can. I will never forget my maternal grandmother's funeral which I attended at the age of 14 or so. I had been having organ lessons for two years by then and vividly remember thinking that I could have done a more decent and respectable job than the gentleman who officiated upon that occasion. Organists are like furniture in that, if they do the job well, hardly anyone may notice. What you need is a situation where they have already had the chance to sample something well below your standard - then they'll be really glad to have you. Once bitten..... Maybe you should get more churches to use their volunteer pianist for a week or two? Thanks "Cynic" This often happens; I don't take it personally! I have only just thought of asking, seeing as this topic is fairly current Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Echo Gamba Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The best one I ever heard of was when the same FD I mentioned "un-booked" me for a Crem service, as "a family member who plays the piano is going to play". I subsequently learned that said person was an eight-year-old girl, who had never had a lesson, but a friend had "taught" her the opening of "Fur Elise" - the E-D#-E-D#-E bit, up to where the LH enters. This she apparently played over and over again (on what registration I know not!) Then there was the "pianist" who played for a service at the Crem before one I was due to play for. I found that "my" stop on the Swell (Echo Gamba!) had been left "on" by this person. My service came in to a CD so my first contribution was "Jerusalem", with a full chapel, and registration to match. Unbeknown to me, our friend at the previous service seems to have played everything on the Echo Gamba, but had found the "master volume" control (on the underside of the keyboards, out of sight, and turned it up full to get some volume from their selected stop......... I've never seen so many people, myself included, jump so high!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The best one I ever heard of was when the same FD I mentioned "un-booked" me for a Crem service, as "a family member who plays the piano is going to play". I subsequently learned that said person was an eight-year-old girl, who had never had a lesson, but a friend had "taught" her the opening of "Fur Elise" - the E-D#-E-D#-E bit, up to where the LH enters. This she apparently played over and over again (on what registration I know not!) Then there was the "pianist" who played for a service at the Crem before one I was due to play for. I found that "my" stop on the Swell (Echo Gamba!) had been left "on" by this person. My service came in to a CD so my first contribution was "Jerusalem", with a full chapel, and registration to match. Unbeknown to me, our friend at the previous service seems to have played everything on the Echo Gamba, but had found the "master volume" control (on the underside of the keyboards, out of sight, and turned it up full to get some volume from their selected stop......... I've never seen so many people, myself included, jump so high!!! You live long enough, you see it all. Be grateful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Lane Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The best one I ever heard of was when the same FD I mentioned "un-booked" me for a Crem service, as "a family member who plays the piano is going to play". I subsequently learned that said person was an eight-year-old girl, who had never had a lesson, but a friend had "taught" her the opening of "Fur Elise" - the E-D#-E-D#-E bit, up to where the LH enters. This she apparently played over and over again (on what registration I know not!) Then there was the "pianist" who played for a service at the Crem before one I was due to play for. I found that "my" stop on the Swell (Echo Gamba!) had been left "on" by this person. My service came in to a CD so my first contribution was "Jerusalem", with a full chapel, and registration to match. Unbeknown to me, our friend at the previous service seems to have played everything on the Echo Gamba, but had found the "master volume" control (on the underside of the keyboards, out of sight, and turned it up full to get some volume from their selected stop......... I've never seen so many people, myself included, jump so high!!! You gets what you pay for! Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigel ALLCOAT Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I played for a family cremation in Lincolnshire the other year and for some reason as I played for the 'exit', the crimson curtains enveloped the coffin area and for some unexplained reason another set (for I was a little to the left of the 'action' in an alcove just adorably made for a Viscount), parted me from the glorious company of my family in the body (sic) of the chapel. Some might say on this Board, it was an answer to a prayer. No fee of course. Good lunch at The Angel - heaven on earth. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 A delicious image, Nigel, but one surely prompted by the customary standard of audition experienced, not by your exceptional self! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Echo Gamba Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I played for a family cremation in Lincolnshire the other year and for some reason as I played for the 'exit', the crimson curtains enveloped the coffin area and for some unexplained reason another set (for I was a little to the left of the 'action' in an alcove just adorably made for a Viscount), parted me from the glorious company of my family in the body (sic) of the chapel. Some might say on this Board, it was an answer to a prayer. No fee of course. Good lunch at The Angel - heaven on earth. N As I have said elsewhere, Viscount are now in a totally different league to a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now