The Interesting Recitals Thread

[harfo32]

You can hear the organ of Halifax Parish Church on Organs and Organists Online - a very fine performance by Colin Mitchell of the Schumann Sketch in F minor. I had forgotten what a magnificent sound this organ has - I have just listened to it again! Scintillating mixture work - The 17ths have been taken out . http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/

It also has beautiful Diapasons and fascinating quiet solo reeds - a 16 Cor Anglais, and 8' Clarinet and Orchestral Oboe.

John Foss

 

Aha?

 

A genuine Arthur Harrison's?

With Trombas and Harmonics?

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers

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[Nick Bennett]

You can hear the organ of Halifax Parish Church on Organs and Organists Online - a very fine performance by Colin Mitchell of the Schumann Sketch in F minor. I had forgotten what a magnificent sound this organ has - I have just listened to it again! Scintillating mixture work - The 17ths have been taken out . http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/

It also has beautiful Diapasons and fascinating quiet solo reeds - a 16 Cor Anglais, and 8' Clarinet and Orchestral Oboe.

John Foss

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There are still two opportunities to hear this organ in recital this year, Saturday 15th at 7.30 (David H Barker) and Saturday 22nd at 12.00 (Philip C Tordoff). There's an open invitation for visiting organists in the audience at the lunchtime recitals to play for up to 15 minutes after the recital, subject to there not being anything else going on in the church.

 

Next year's recital series begins on 22nd April. Highlights of the season will include James Lancelot on 6th May.

[tjtikker]

I do think there is something to be said for using scaling to control the colume of remote mutation pitches in mixtures rather than voicing them more softly (e.g. at the toe). I find that mixtures work best when their members are all voiced in a similar manner, and that manner being one of good, solid strength. A soft rank among louder ranks in a chorus doesn't really integrate successfully.

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This is certainly true in "classical" organ-building, tough even the differences in scaling

can be disturbing -narrower ranks will be richer in harmonics and interfere with higher-pitched ranks-.

 

Perhaps the best compensation would be to give the narrower ranks the same actual mouth-height -- i.e. actual measurement, not proportion of the mouth-width. That would help them to match best in timbre and wtill allow the power differences.

 

- Timothy Tikker

[MusingMuso]

I do think there is something to be said for using scaling to control the colume of remote mutation pitches in mixtures rather than voicing them more softly (e.g. at the toe). I find that mixtures work best when their members are all voiced in a similar manner, and that manner being one of good, solid strength. A soft rank among louder ranks in a chorus doesn't really integrate successfully.

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This is certainly true in "classical" organ-building, tough even the differences in scaling

can be disturbing -narrower ranks will be richer in harmonics and interfere with higher-pitched ranks-.

As Mr Bicknell explains, a classic Diapason chorus is made with the same scaling and voicing troughout; if one wants to "soften" any part of it, suffice to build less duplications, or no duplication of it, and/or to place its pipes deeper in the organ-case.

This is exactly what you find in the baroque organs here in Belgium.

But in romantic organs, this may be the reverse. You may have a Mixture that's made

to work with different families of stops (no "pure" chorus), with one rank Lieblich Gedackt, the next Principal, then Gemshorn, then a Principal the kind of a Dulciana,

and the last say a Spitzflöte.

Examples are to be find in the (rare...) Walcker and Link organs in Germany

and Belgium.

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Mixtures have always been something of a vexed subject, and this may be illustrated by the difference of approach of (say) "Father" Willis and an organ-builder like Lewis. "Father" Willis used narrow scales and blew them hard, whereas Lewis used the almost exact opposite approach....both to good effect, it has to be said.

 

So perhaps the crux of the matter is not so much to do with "Topfer" scales, "straight line" choruses or progressive narrowing of higher pitches, but with the exact details of voicing.

 

I may not understand Mixtures very well...(who does?).....but from the evidence, it would appear that the question of "timbre" is at least as important as actual scaling; thus supporting Pierre's comment about overly-rich harmonics.

 

Pierre's point about the placing of a Mixture is a valid one, and the impact of the V rks Mixture at Armley is to do with the fact that it is sighted at the FRONT of the wind-chest rather than at the rear.

 

The best mixtures seem to be those which use similar scales to that of the chorus-work of which they are part, but voiced quick and dull by lowering the languids, and thus speaking in a vaguely "flutey" way. This is certainly supported by the Frans Casper Schnitger Mixtures at Alkmaar, which are very rounded-sounding things indeed when played alone.

 

As for Walcker mixtures, I cannot comment....we do not have too many of them in England, but there are numerous examples of Dulciana mixtures and String Cornet de Violes, which are probably our native equivalent.

 

If there is one thing which beggars belief, it is the way in which new mixtures are often quite unrelated to the chorus-work of many romantic organs, when attempts have been to brighten-up the end result. Rather than taking the voicing-clue from the existing treatment of the 2ft chorus-rank, certain organ-builders just seem to have slotted in badly matched new pipework with absolutely awful results.

 

In very dead-acoustics which do nothing much to take away the edge of brightly-voiced upperwork, Mixture-voicing becomes absolutely critical to the end result, and instead of sounding slightly inappropriate, may sound utterly offensive.

 

Therein lyeth a testimony to the 1960's "classical revival".

 

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

"As for Walcker mixtures, I cannot comment....we do not have too many of them in England, but there are numerous examples of Dulciana mixtures and String Cornet de Violes, which are probably our native equivalent.

 

If there is one thing which beggars belief, it is the way in which new mixtures are often quite unrelated to the chorus-work of many romantic organs, when attempts have been to brighten-up the end result. Rather than taking the voicing-clue from the existing treatment of the 2ft chorus-rank, certain organ-builders just seem to have slotted in badly matched new pipework with absolutely awful results."

 

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This can be commented;

 

The Dulciana chorus is a straight, "pure" one: (16)-8-4-2-DM. So the Dulciana mixture isn't a "romantic mixture" stricto sensu, rather a diminutive Diapason chorus mixture. If one wishes to conciliate classic and romantic design, this is a strong winner indeed.

The aim seems obvious: the Dulciana 8' alone may be very confidential in a large organ, the original context of such a stop being Snetzler's and Green's organ.

(I just found a recording of the former Lichtfield's cath organ BTW).

 

The german romantic mixture was designed to top a mass of stops belonging to differing families, and the idea was to represent them all in the mixture itself.

 

The Cornet de viols isn't a mixture, rather a "compound mutations stop", like

indeed the Cornet. It is a color by itself, to be used as a soloist or to change

other stop's tone, not "corroborating" their tone. I particularly enjoyed it

at Ely cathedral where the A. Harrison's ensemble has been kept trough

the rebuilds.

 

As for romantic chorus-work, there may be some miscomprehension there.

In a Willis organ the mixtures go with the Diapason chorus plus the reeds. The flutes

and the strings are left out -it's the reason there are several Open Diapasons 8'-

But in continental romantic organs this is not so The mixtures are not designed to top any chorus at all, they are rather tutti-binders, a bit like the Grand Cornet in

the "Grand jeu" of the baroque french organ.

In Britain we may take for "reasonably" granted there were several influences at play, from conservative-british Willis to continental imports (some Cavaillé-Coll, some Walckers and Anneessens) with Schulze followers like Lewis in between.

So different conceptions were to be find; nearly classic choruses (Schulze), traditionnal english (Diapason choruses with tierce ranks to which we can add the reeds) and then the continental tutti-mixture.

 

This an immense asset! diversity is priceless.

As an organist you should like the challenge to find for yourself what role any

dedicated mixture was designed for.

Once again, a "proper" X or Y (Chorus, chorus mixture etc etc etc) does not exist, it would be like standardising the food worldwide as if we said, for example, rice is

"incorrect", only the potatoes are the "right and enlightened" mean to feed the

human species.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[Dominic]

It blends pretty well, and I like it, but then I have never been a great fan of tierce mixtures.  Some people consider it rather harsh - principally, I think, members of the choir, who hear it from the chancel, where it does sound rather strident.  Down the nave it is much more mellow.

 

Walker's installed it during the 1970's renovation.  It was originally two ranks but was later made into three.

 

Yes, I have heard a recital at Crediton.  The Harmonics is indeed very reedy.  I thought it suited the style of the instrument very well, but as you say, it is not suitable for Bach.

 

The Halifax PC H&H is indeed a fine instrument, and you can hear a recital on it every Saturday from Easter to October.

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These Harmonics stops were married to the Harrison Trombas perhaps. Change one and you might have to change them both. Divorce? Difficult question!

[Pierre Lauwers]

These Harmonics stops were married to the Harrison Trombas perhaps. Change one and you might have to change them both. Divorce? Difficult question!

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This is highly probable. These stops -and their continental likes- are a kind

of post-romantic "Grand Cornet".

They are of course better seen as second mixtures, not chorus mixtures.

 

Pierre