L'institut Des Jeunes Aveugles

[Justadad]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the 'Compare and contrast' thread. One entry pointed to the five disk EMI Classics "Orgues et organistes français du XXè siècle" set. Disk five includes a recording a Maurice Duruflé playing his Prelude and Fugue sue le nom D’Alain. Lawrence is playing this in his A2 recital and it (apparently) makes sense to use the same piece in the compare and contrast exercise. (I do appreciate that playing this is silly. The examination board want something of AB grade six level, and I’ve tried telling him that it’s better to play a grade six piece perfectly but … well … he’s playing the Duruflé).

 

So; on the EMI recording Duruflé played his Prelude and Fugue re Alain on the Cavaillé-Coll organ at the Institute for the Young Blind in Paris. Can anyone tell me what the specification of this organ was at the time (I’m guessing around the early 1920s)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Best wishes

 

J

[john carter]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the 'Compare and contrast' thread. One entry pointed to the five disk EMI Classics "Orgues et organistes français du XXè siècle" set. Disk five includes a recording a Maurice Duruflé playing his Prelude and Fugue sue le nom D’Alain. Lawrence is playing this in his A2 recital and it (apparently) makes sense to use the same piece in the compare and contrast exercise. (I do appreciate that playing this is silly. The examination board want something of AB grade six level, and I’ve tried telling him that it’s better to play a grade six piece perfectly but … well … he’s playing the Duruflé).

 

So; on the EMI recording Duruflé played his Prelude and Fugue re Alain on the Cavaillé-Coll organ at the Institute for the Young Blind in Paris. Can anyone tell me what the specification of this organ was at the time (I’m guessing around the early 1920s)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Best wishes

 

J

May I suggest a comparison with the recording of the Duruflé by Vincent Warnier, successor to Marie-Madeleine Duruflé at St Etienne du Mont. It is on the Intrada label.

 

As for the specification you are seeking, I thought I had it, but I'm sorry I can't find it at the moment. I'll keep trying.

JC

[pcnd5584]

Reply by PM.

[flûte harmonique]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the 'Compare and contrast' thread. One entry pointed to the five disk EMI Classics "Orgues et organistes français du XXè siècle" set. Disk five includes a recording a Maurice Duruflé playing his Prelude and Fugue sue le nom D’Alain. Lawrence is playing this in his A2 recital and it (apparently) makes sense to use the same piece in the compare and contrast exercise. (I do appreciate that playing this is silly. The examination board want something of AB grade six level, and I’ve tried telling him that it’s better to play a grade six piece perfectly but … well … he’s playing the Duruflé).

 

So; on the EMI recording Duruflé played his Prelude and Fugue re Alain on the Cavaillé-Coll organ at the Institute for the Young Blind in Paris. Can anyone tell me what the specification of this organ was at the time (I’m guessing around the early 1920s)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Best wishes

-

J

There are 3 organs at this Institute. Two of them are from ACC (Orgue Cavaillé-coll (fin XIX°) - Beuchet-Debierre (1932) - Gonzalez (1953)

-Salle Duroc. Composition as follows:

 

 

2 claviers de 61 notes et pédalier de 32 notes. Transmissions mécaniques. 21 jeux.

 

Grand-orgue :

 

Quintaton 16'

Montre 8'

Bourdon 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2' 2/3

Quarte 2'

Tierce 1' 3/5

Plein-jeu IV rgs

 

Récit:

 

Flûte à fuseau 8'

Gambe 8'

Voix céleste 8'

Principal 4'

Doublette 2'

Cymbale IV rgs

Trompette 8'

Hautbois 8'

 

Pédale:

 

Soubasse 16'

Flûte 8'

Flûte 4'

Basson 8'

 

Accouplements: Réc./G.O. en 16' et 8'. Tirasses: G.O., Réc. en 8' et 4'. Expression sur tout l'orgue. Combinaisons ajustables mécaniques.

 

The second one ( Orgue Cavaillé-Coll (1885) - Gonzalez (1960) is located salle André Marchal, composition:

 

3 claviers de 61 notes et pédalier de 32 notes. Transmissions électriques. 70 jeux (64 réels).

 

 

Grand-Orgue :

 

Bourdon 16'

Principal 8'

Gemshorn 8'

Flûte harmonique 8'

Bourdon 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Quinte 2' 2/3

Doublette 2'

Cornet V rgs

Plein-jeu VI rgs

Cymbale IV rgs

Bombarde 16'

Trompette 8'

Clairon 4'

 

Positif :

 

Montre 8'

Bourdon 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2' 2/3

Doublette 2'

Tierce 1' 3/5

Larigot 1' 1/3

Septième 1' 1/7

Piccolo 1'

Plein-jeu III rgs

Cymbale II rgs

Ranquette 16'

Cromorne 8'

Chalumeau 4'

 

 

Récit expressif :

 

Quintaton 16'

Principal 8'

Flûte 8'

Cor de nuit 8'

Salicional 8'

Unda maris 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Flûte 2'

Sesquialtera II rgs

Plein-jeu IV rgs

Cymbale IV rgs

Bombarde 16'

Trompette 8'

Hautbois 8'

Clarinette 8'

Voix humaine 8'

Clairon 4'

 

 

Pédale :

 

Soubasse 32'

Bourdon 16'

Flûte 16'

Soubasse 16'

Principal 8'

Flûte 8'

Bourdon 8'

Principal 4'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2' 2/3

Flûte 2'

Tierce 1' 3/5

Mixture IV rgs

Bombarde 16'

Trompette 8'

Clairon 4'

Buccine 2'

Bombarde 16' > Récit

Trompette 8' > Récit

Clairon 4' > Récit

 

Accouplements: Pos./G.O., Réc./G.O., Réc./Pos. Tirasses: G.O., Pos., Réc. Trémolo au Récit. Combinaisons ajustables.

[Justadad]

Hi

 

Thanks. Yes, it's the one in the salle André Marchal, but I'm trying to find the specification as it would have been in 1920 (before Gonzalez got to it in 1960).

 

Best wishes

 

J

 

 

SNIP

 

The second one ( Orgue Cavaillé-Coll (1885) - Gonzalez (1960) is located salle André Marchal, composition:

 

3 claviers de 61 notes et pédalier de 32 notes. Transmissions électriques. 70 jeux (64 réels).

Grand-Orgue :

 

Bourdon 16'

Principal 8'

Gemshorn 8'

Flûte harmonique 8'

Bourdon 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Quinte 2' 2/3

Doublette 2'

Cornet V rgs

Plein-jeu VI rgs

Cymbale IV rgs

Bombarde 16'

Trompette 8'

Clairon 4'

 

Positif :

 

Montre 8'

Bourdon 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2' 2/3

Doublette 2'

Tierce 1' 3/5

Larigot 1' 1/3

Septième 1' 1/7

Piccolo 1'

Plein-jeu III rgs

Cymbale II rgs

Ranquette 16'

Cromorne 8'

Chalumeau 4'

Récit expressif :

 

Quintaton 16'

Principal 8'

Flûte 8'

Cor de nuit 8'

Salicional 8'

Unda maris 8'

Prestant 4'

Flûte 4'

Flûte 2'

Sesquialtera II rgs

Plein-jeu IV rgs

Cymbale IV rgs

Bombarde 16'

Trompette 8'

Hautbois 8'

Clarinette 8'

Voix humaine 8'

Clairon 4'

Pédale :

 

Soubasse 32'

Bourdon 16'

Flûte 16'

Soubasse 16'

Principal 8'

Flûte 8'

Bourdon 8'

Principal 4'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2' 2/3

Flûte 2'

Tierce 1' 3/5

Mixture IV rgs

Bombarde 16'

Trompette 8'

Clairon 4'

Buccine 2'

Bombarde 16' > Récit

Trompette 8' > Récit

Clairon 4' > Récit

 

Accouplements: Pos./G.O., Réc./G.O., Réc./Pos. Tirasses: G.O., Pos., Réc. Trémolo au Récit. Combinaisons ajustables.

[Justadad]

Ooops!

 

In looking into this myself I have found that the recording was actually made on 5th March, 1953 (so not in the 20s).

 

But's it's still the C-C spec rather than Gonzalez that I'm after.

 

Best wishes

 

J

[john carter]

Ooops!

 

In looking into this myself I have found that the recording was actually made on 5th March, 1953 (so not in the 20s).

 

But's it's still the C-C spec rather than Gonzalez that I'm after.

 

Best wishes

 

J

It might be worth contacting Bernard Dargassies. He will almost certainly know the history of this instrument.

JC

[Justadad]

Further investigation reveals that C-C built it in 1883, Puget did something ('Relevé ... par Puget) in 1910, and Convers did some more in 1926. So it's the Convers 1926 spec I really want.

 

M. Dargassies isn't on my Christmas Card list so I'll see if I can find an e-mail address. Thanks John.

 

Best wishes

 

J

 

 

It might be worth contacting Bernard Dargassies. He will almost certainly know the history of this instrument.

JC

[john carter]

Further investigation reveals that C-C built it in 1883, Puget did something ('Relevé ... par Puget) in 1910, and Convers did some more in 1926. So it's the Convers 1926 spec I really want.

 

M. Dargassies isn't on my Christmas Card list so I'll see if I can find an e-mail address. Thanks John.

 

Best wishes

 

J

orgues@wanadoo.fr should take you to his company, Manufacture Vosgienne de Grandes Orgues.

JC

[Guest acc]

According to Jesse Eschbach's compendium of CC stoplists, CC has built three organs for the Jeunes Aveugles. With respect to the data provided by "flûte harmonique" (which are apparently taken from here), I do not quite know which is which, nor whether all are still in existence.

 

Although this does not take into account possible subsequent modifications (e.g. by Puget and/or Convers), here are, for what it's worth, the original CC stoplists as given by Eschbach (the organ we're after seems to be the third one):

• Organ delivered December 1843
  • Grand-Orgue (54 notes): Montre 8', Bourdon 8', Flûte harmonique 8', Violoncelle 8', Prestant 4', Quinte 2 2/3', Doublette 2', Plein-Jeu III, Trompette 8', Clairon 4'
    
  • Récit expressif (54 notes): Flûte traversière 8', Flûte douce 8', Flue octaviante 4', Octavin 2', Trompette 8', Cor anglais 8', Cromorne 8'
    
  • Pédale (20 notes): Flûte 8', Trompette 8'
    

  [*]Orgue d'études [garçons], delivered November 1868

  • Grand-Orgue (54 notes): Principal 8', Bourdon 8', Prestant 4', Plein-Jeu II–V, Trompette 8', Clairon 4'
    
  • Récit expressif (54 notes): Gambe 8', Voix céleste 8', Flûte octaviante 4', Octavin 2', Hautbois 8', Voix humaine 8'
    
  • Pédale (30 notes): Soubasse 16', Flûte 8', Basson 16'
    

  [*]Orgue d'études [demoiselles], delivered May 1880

  • Grand-Orgue expressif (56 notes): Bourdon 16', Principal 8', Bourdon 8', Prestant 4', Trompette 8'
    
  • Récit expressif (56 notes): Flûte traversière 8', Viole de Gambe 8', Voix céleste 8', Flûte octaviante 4', Basson et Hautbois 8'
    
  • Pédale (30 notes): Bourdon 16' (GO), Bourdon 8' (GO)
    

[Justadad]

Dear ACC

 

Thank you so much for looking that up, and for taking the considerable trouble to type it all out.

 

The following is taken from the museum pages of the INJA site (and loosely - and badly - translated by me).

 

Un peu plus tard, en 1883, Lebel verra la construction d’un second instrument dans la salle des concerts (actuelle salle Marchal) par le même facteur. Relevé en 1910 par Puget, puis par Convers en 1926 et enfin par Danion-Gonzalez en 1961 il est composé actuellement de 64 jeux réels répartis sur 3 claviers de 61 notes et une pédalier de 32 notes.

 

A little later, in 1883, Lebel ordered the building of a second instrument in the concert hall (the Marchal Room) by the same builder (Cavaillé-Coll). Developed in 1910 by Puget, then by Convers in 1926 and finally by Danion-Gonzalez in 1961 it comprises 64 speaking stops across three manuals of 61 note compass and a 32 note pedal organ.

 

And that doesn't seem to agree with anything in Eschbach.

 

If only the blessed Tony ran a French NPOR it would be easy to discern the state of the organ in 1953.

 

Best wishes

 

barry

 

PS. Thanks again, JC. Yes, I found that addy myself and sent an e-mail at 13:32. I've also written to the INJA, and the Duruflé.org. No luck yet.

[flûte harmonique]

Dear ACC

 

Thank you so much for looking that up, and for taking the considerable trouble to type it all out.

 

The following is taken from the museum pages of the INJA site (and loosely - and badly - translated by me).

 

Un peu plus tard, en 1883, Lebel verra la construction d’un second instrument dans la salle des concerts (actuelle salle Marchal) par le même facteur. Relevé en 1910 par Puget, puis par Convers en 1926 et enfin par Danion-Gonzalez en 1961 il est composé actuellement de 64 jeux réels répartis sur 3 claviers de 61 notes et une pédalier de 32 notes.

 

A little later, in 1883, Lebel ordered the building of a second instrument in the concert hall (the Marchal Room) by the same builder (Cavaillé-Coll). Developed in 1910 by Puget, then by Convers in 1926 and finally by Danion-Gonzalez in 1961 it comprises 64 speaking stops across three manuals of 61 note compass and a 32 note pedal organ.

 

And that doesn't seem to agree with anything in Eschbach.

 

If only the blessed Tony ran a French NPOR it would be easy to discern the state of the organ in 1953.

 

Best wishes

 

barry

 

PS. Thanks again, JC. Yes, I found that addy myself and sent an e-mail at 13:32. I've also written to the INJA, and the Duruflé.org. No luck yet.

 

This organ by ACC had 34 stops when it has been built. It was inaugurated by César Franck in 1883.

For the rest, I'll find out.

[Justadad]

Dear Flûte

 

Wow! Thank you

 

Best wishes

 

J

 

This organ by ACC had 34 stops when it has been built. It was inaugurated by César Franck in 1883.

For the rest, I'll find out.

[Guest acc]

And that doesn't seem to agree with anything in Eschbach.

 

Indeed — surprising that he should have missed what seems to be the most important instrument.

 

Anyway, I've just posted a question about this on the French discussion board Organographia, summarizing the data from musimem.com, orgue.free.fr, and Eschbach, and asking whether someone knows how to sort things out. If I've got any luck, I'll report back here.