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Polish Cymbals - Who Was Wanting To Hear One?


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Sorry about this, but I can't recall who wanted to hear the untuned sound of the Polish Cymbals.

 

I've been slowly searching my sound files, and I came across it, as well as the link to a fascinating Polish organ website about the organs (3 of them I believe - all originally baroque) in the historic church at Leżajsku.

 

I have posted this link before, to a remarkable improvisation by Prof.Julian J.Gembalskiego....in Polish, that's "improwizacje" (a word of Polish you now know!) .....which lasts a good 20 mins.

 

The sound of the Cymbal is heard quite early on; possibly within two or three of minutes of the start, and is then used as a solo combination.

 

The whole site is quite remarkable, but don't let the Polish language put you off.......it's worth working at! The pretty pictures show, among other things, the incredibly ornate and richly decorated church and organ-case.

 

I think you will also note, from the console photographs, that these organs are not in the best of condition, and seem to be staggering along with the (German?) pneumatic systems from the last time that they were re-built many years ago.

 

The link is:-

 

http://www.lezajsk.bernardyni.ofm.pl/organy_remont.htm

 

The improvisation is right at the bottom of the lead page, with the appropriate link on which to click to hear the piece.

 

MM

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Dear List,

 

I believe I can provide some interesting information, as I am currently writing a larger dissertation about preserved Polish organs with Rückpositiv from the 1st. half of the 17th century. The Le?ajsk organ - although not being the subject of my work - might be regarded as the a continuation of that early tradition.

 

The organ in Lezajsk, built originally between ca. 1680 and 1693 by Stanislaw Studzinski from Przeworsk and jan Glowinski from Krakow, was drastically rebuilt in 1903-05 by Aleksander Zebrowski. Windchest and pipes of Rückpositiv were removed and a new three manual console was placed on their place. Of the former Rückpositiv only the case with - now silent - facade pipes was reused (to see those richly ornamented pipes one has to visit

and fast-forward the film to ca. 7:16)

 

Of the old pipes only about 50% were reused - including the Cymbal VII-X, prospect principals. New cone windchests and action (with Barker lever for HW)were built.

 

In 1963 the organ was restored by Robert Polcyn from Poznan. The romantic stoplist of Zebrowski was then modified to something what we would call "Neobaroque" today. Rückpositiv was not restored, Zebrowski's windchests were reused.

 

---------------------

 

In Krakow, in the Holy Cross church, there is a small and newly reconstructed organ (with Cymbal XI) built probably by Glowinski that might give some idea of the tonal revelations of the original Lezajsk organ.

 

For photographs visit: http://organy.art.pl/instrumenty.php?instr_id=343

 

---------------------

 

The earliest example of the Polish Cymbal is known to be in the oldest larger Polish organ preserved in original state - Olkusz (built by Hans Hummel and Georgius Nitrowski between 1611 and 1633), for details visit my website:

 

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/olkusz.html

 

Here the Cymbal has a more intimate tone.

The Cymbal pipes are located behind the facade Principal and are not tuned.

 

Normally the Polish Cymbal is a multi-rank mixture with extremely small pipes placed on a common toe and playing a cluster of 3-11 notes up from about 1/10'.

Each key of the manual- vs. pedalboard has a separate Cymbal pipe (of multiple small pipes).

 

---------------------

 

The Polish Cymbal was probably intended to be used in Plenum - there are several contracts from early 17th c. that mention "Mixtura z Cymbalem" ("a mixture with cymbel") that are to be operated with one stop.

 

Such Cymbel-Mixtur is preserved in Wachock (ca. 1650) - here the HW mixture has six normal quint-octave ranks and a seventh rank being a Polish Cymbal III-V (summa summarum: a HW mixture IX-XI).

 

---------------------

 

The tradition of the Polish Cymbal seems to have been a long lasting one - one of the later examples is preserved in the 1745-54 organ in Jedrzejow (the organ waiting for its restoration).

Here the pipes of the 6-rank Polish Cymbal stand between large pipes of HW Quintadena 16'.

For a photograph visit my website:

 

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/jedrzejow.html

 

and

 

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/Je...ges/Image8.html

 

Kind regards,

Krzysztof Urbaniak

 

www.organist-harpsichordist.com

 

PS. There are some good news - the large organ in Krzeszow built 1732-1736 (50, III/P) by Michael Engler is currently being restored by Jehmlich:

 

http://www.jehmlich-orgelbau.de/deutsch/re...el_gruessau.htm

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It is the last Engler we still have, I think !

 

This is the only large and rather complete Engler (the other Engler in Olomouc is altered).

 

There are however at least three smaller, two-manual, instruments by M. Engler the Younger in central Poland.

All in a more or less rebuilt state.

 

Krzysztof.

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"In Krakow, in the Holy Cross church, there is a small and newly reconstructed organ (with Cymbal XI) built probably by Glowinski that might give some idea of the tonal revelations of the original Lezajsk organ."

(Quote)

 

When I read the specification, as reconstituted, this one lends me to think

to Casparini!

 

Pierre

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Which Casparini do you mean:

 

Eugenio Casparini

Adam Horatio Casparini

Adam Gottlob Casparini

or maybe Georg Sigismund Caspari?

 

Krzysztof

 

I mean the whole dynasty, in which all members shared the original, Eugen's incredible

synthesis of italian and german styles.

Up to the Vilnius organ (currently restored...)

 

Pierre

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As for the Casparinis,

 

I believe that ideas of Adam Gottlob Casparini (builder of the Vilnius organ) were actually a mixture of a small dose of Italian, and a large dose of Central-German and North-German style.

 

After his Gesellenzeit by Trost, Adam Gottlob came to Königsberg and mixed his ideas with the Prussian style of Mosengel.

 

Mosengel - a pupil of Martin Vater, father of the more famous Christian Vater from Hannover - on the other hand mixed some newer North-German ideas with style of the Zickermann family from Cammin/Kamien Pomorski that emmigrated to Königsberg in late 16th century ( http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/zickermann.html for more details see Jan Jancas book).

 

In his stoplists Mosengel incorporated older registers (Spielflöte, Zincke) with relatively new sounds of the time (Viola da Gamba, Violone).

Some time ago I made a compilation of all stoplists and organ photographs of instruments by Johann Josua Mosengel known to me - http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/jo...hotographs.html

 

Those have not been widely known so far.

 

Of Mosengel's organs two survive in more or less altered state, as do other three organ cases with later instruments inside.

 

A trace of Georg Sigismund Caspari's influence could be the "Jula 8'" already present in the large organ of the Königsberg cathedral built by Mosengel, his son and Caspari in 1721. Mosengel reused most pipes from the fromer Zickermann organ.

 

After deaths of Mosengel and later Caspari we reach the point when Adam Gottlob Casparini arrived in Königsberg.

 

The line would be then Zickermann - Mosengel - Georg Sigismund Caspari - Adam Gottlob Casparini.

 

--------------

 

Actually with the restoration of Vilnius organ there have been some problems.

The Holy Spirit church in Vilnius (where the Casparini stays) is still used by a Polish parish that did not leave Vilnius when the city became Lithuanian after IIWW - the first problem was of political matter, as there came to the cooperation of Lithuanian authorities and the Polish parish.

 

The second problem - much more serious - was, and is, so that while money for the Rochester copy of the Casparini was being collected (the copy is actually ready), the original Casparini was still in parts and there was in fact NO real progress in its restoration. Those organ parts were stored in a way, I would describe as "ein wirres Durcheinander".

Furthermore, the documentation of the organ is in Swedish only and not especially useful for the restoration of this really complete organ.

 

There are also some not very clear statements by the Lithuanian side and, unfortunately, these are repeated by GOArt.

For instance here http://www.esm.rochester.edu/organ/PDF/Resonance4.pdf you can read about the "Lithuanian queen Bona Sforza", and "Lithuanian" musicians "Marco Scacchi" and "Diomedes Cato".

The story with Polish-Lithuanian political union is not cited in this scientific text.

 

In fact when queen Bona Sforza was informed that her son was not going to stay in Krakow but planned to move to Vilnius, she went back to Bari in Italy leaving both Poland and Lithuania.

Marco Scacchi was the Warsaw Kapellmeister - really nothing to do with Lithuania.

(very interesting is the musical "fight" between Scacchi and the Paul Siefert - a pupil of Sweelinck active in Königsberg, Danzig/Gdansk and in Warsaw - that resulted in several volumes of vocal publications by both composers).

Finally, Diomedes Cato was a lutenist whose pieces are preserved in one of the Olive Tablatures from Danzig/Gdansk.

 

--------------

 

There are two smaller organs by Adam Gottlob Casparini in Poland - one in Barciany (with later facade pipes and without Trompet 8) and one in Mlynary (windchests and action original - most pipes new). Both towns were Prussian before IIWW.

 

Kind regards,

Krzysztof.

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As for the Casparinis,

 

 

 

There are two smaller organs by Adam Gottlob Casparini in Poland - one in Barciany (with later facade pipes and without Trompet 8) and one in Mlynary (windchests and action original - most pipes new). Both towns were Prussian before IIWW.

 

===========================

 

 

This is absolutely fascinating stuff....thank-you Krystof!

 

Isn't there a restored Casparini organ in one of the Polish academies?

 

I say this from memory, but I will check my files just to make sure.

 

As for Pierre's comment about Michael Engler organs, is he not overlooking the stupendous organ at Olomouc in the Czech Republic?

 

Yes it is a five-manual organ, with a great deal of additions by Rieger-Kloss, but at the heart of the instrument is the original MECHANICAL action Engler instrument, which still plays with the original console and the appropriate short-compasses.

 

As I understand it, this organ has NOT been vandalised, but merely added to, and judging by the absolutely superb sound of the original, I would think that this is possibly true. Remarkably, the additions to the instrument, which are quite separate, are wonderfully tonally grafted to the original Engler pipes, making this one of the most spectacular and most versatile instruments in Europe. It is remarkable that music as diverse as Bach, Alain and Cesar Franck have been recorded on this instrument; and very convincingly.

 

However, I am absolutely thrilled that restoration is now underway to the other big Engler organ in Poland. If this is carried out well, I think this will become a place of pilgrimage, because I suspect that Engler was possibly one of the very finest organ-builders Europe ever witnessed.

 

With all these wonderful old organs now coming to light after years of being "on the wrong side" of Europe, perhaps we should all clamour for the music to be published!!!!!!

 

MM

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"I am absolutely thrilled that restoration is now underway to the other big Engler organ in Poland. If this is carried out well, I think this will become a place of pilgrimage, because I suspect that Engler was possibly one of the very finest organ-builders Europe ever witnessed."

(Quote)

 

YESSSSS!

Definitively agreed on that one.

And it will be well-done, no doubt; Jehmlich

is a top-player.

 

Pierre

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Isn't there a restored Casparini organ in one of the Polish academies?

 

The story of the restored small organ by Adam Horatio Casparini - you refer to - starts in 1976 with the great fire of St. Elisabeth in Wroclaw when the large Engler organ (at the time already having been heavily altered by Schlag & Söhne and by Sauer) burnt out. The small organ of the church, that did not attract any attention till then, survived. After investigation of the organ it turned out to be an original instrument by Adam Horatio Casparini.

The small organ was restored and moved to Oratorium Marianum of the Wroclaw University (for details visit: http://organy.art.pl/instrumenty.php?instr_id=491 ) unfortunately with little chance for going back to St. Elisabeth in the future.

 

After restoration of the church itself a new initiative - "Opus Organi" -, to reconstruct the large Engler organ in its 18th century form, appeared. Some founds have already been raised.

The project itself seems to be very similar to Stiftung-Johann-Sebastian-Bach at St. Katharinen in Hamburg. The reconstruction shall be based on Olomouc and Krzeszow, with some documents with detailed description of the organ dating from the time of its completion as a basis.

 

For interesting photographs of all three Englers in Wroclaw, Krzeszow and Olomouc visit the foundation's page:

http://www.opusorgani.wroclaw.pl/album/ipage00001.htm

 

Here you can see the large Engler at St. Elisabeth as it was after modifications by Schlag & Söhne - when the double Rückpositiv was removed ( http://www.opusorgani.wroclaw.pl/album/ipage00001.htm ),

 

after restoration in style of Orgelbewegung by Wilhelm Sauer in 1941 - when Rückpositiv was recreated in a modified form ( http://www.opusorgani.wroclaw.pl/album/ipage00003.htm ),

 

and as it probably was at the time of Engler ( http://www.opusorgani.wroclaw.pl/album/ipage00029.htm ).

 

Photos no. 24. - 27. and and 21. are from Krzeszow.

 

Photos no. 10. - 20. are from Olomouc - the keyboards are of later date and were built by Rieger-Kloss.

 

--------------------

 

In some 5-10 years we will probably have 3 large organ by Michael Engler.

 

--------------------

 

In Krzeszow there are actually two churches belonging to the same monastery.

The convent was so rich that when the smaller church became to little for the needs, a second one was built in a distance of ca. 50 m.

 

This small St. Joseph church houses a very beautiful organ from the 17th century recently restored by Wieland Rühle.

Some photos of this small organ are on my website (I made them some two years ago, when I played a recital there) are here:

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/krzeszow.html

 

I also found a sound sample of this organ somewhere on my computer:

 

- Preambulum in F by Jan of Lublin (ca. 1540) -

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/music/Preambulum.mp3 (note the stunning effect of the mixture at ca. 0:47)

 

--------------------

 

Krzysztof.

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And, of course, Engler did build a number of smaller organs.

 

There are some nice photographs of the Engler organ in Leczyca (central Poland) here:

http://www.leczyca.pl/php/?modules=galery&..._pages_4613.jpg

 

(for a larger version of the photo, clikc on the image)

 

and here http://shw.fotopages.com/15441439/czyca-ko...-Ewy-Urygi.html

 

The organ was replaced around 1960 by a modern instrument - the case with facade principals (and maybe some other ranks inside?) is preserved though.

 

Krzysztof.

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Is the piece played above published? I've seen dances etc. by Jan of Lublin in recital programmes occasionally but not come across this before - 'would quite like a copy.

 

AJJ

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Is the piece played above published? I've seen dances etc. by Jan of Lublin in recital programmes occasionally but not come across this before - 'would quite like a copy.

 

AJJ

 

 

====================

 

Jan of Lublin was a catholic priest, and although his name is given to the many works in the three (?) collections of 16th Century pieces, they were not composed by him.

 

It is one of the earliest known collections of late Renaissance keyboard music, and was probably written down as musicians travelled from various places in Europe to perform in Lublin; then a very important cultural, administrative and business centre.

 

Some of the music is absolutely lovel, and I included one piece at a recital back in June, which I wrote down from a recording!

 

MM

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For details about Jan of Lublin visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_of_Lublin

 

The tablature from Lublin (the largest European tablature) was published in six volumes in Corpus of Early Keyboard Music 6-1 to 6-6 http://www.corpusmusicae.com/cekm.htm

 

At the end of his tablature Jan of Lublin placed a small treatise "Ad faciendam corecturam" in which he describes how to tune a clavichord in a way "that all modi sound well".

 

For more information see:

 

Adamczyk, Sebastian: Das Stimmungssystem des Johannes von Lublin (1540). Ars Organi 51, 2003, 224-227.

 

and

 

Grönewald, Jürgen: Eine Stimmanweisung - zwei Meinungen, oder: Was bedeutet "tertia perfecta acuta"? Ars Organi 52, 2004, 104 f.

 

Krzysztof

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For details about Jan of Lublin visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_of_Lublin

 

The tablature from Lublin (the largest European tablature) was published in six volumes in Corpus of Early Keyboard Music 6-1 to 6-6 http://www.corpusmusicae.com/cekm.htm

 

At the end of his tablature Jan of Lublin placed a small treatise "Ad faciendam corecturam" in which he describes how to tune a clavichord in a way "that all modi sound well".

 

For more information see:

 

Adamczyk, Sebastian: Das Stimmungssystem des Johannes von Lublin (1540). Ars Organi 51, 2003, 224-227.

 

and

 

Grönewald, Jürgen: Eine Stimmanweisung - zwei Meinungen, oder: Was bedeutet "tertia perfecta acuta"? Ars Organi 52, 2004, 104 f.

 

Krzysztof

 

Thanks to both!

 

AJJ

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Just to put something into perspective, I wonder how many board members know that Poland had numerous organs (at least one with pedals) in the 14th Century, and that there is somewhere reference made to a 13th century instrument?

 

This effectively makes Poland among the founding fathers (perhaps "Mother Goose") of European organ history, and one which can still be traced back an awful long way.

 

I would have to refresh my memory of Polish history, but the Jesuits certainly spread their knowledge and influence very rapidly; bringing with them great culture and establishing great religious foundations.

 

MM

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Just to put something into perspective, I wonder how many board members know that Poland had numerous organs (at least one with pedals) in the 14th Century, and that there is somewhere reference made to a 13th century instrument?

 

There was surely an organ in Torun/Thorn - then in Prussia, now in Poland - built in 1343 by Magister Paulus Wenchen, who was later active in Italy. The organ is known to have had 22 pipes (=22 claves/palmulas).

 

Another object from 1395 was preserved in parts till 1944/45 in Bartoszyce/Bartenstein.

The organ was built by Magister Paul, whose wife - "die Orgelmecheryne" - was already noted as a widow in 1400.

The instrument had a manual of 27 keys (F-G-A-a' ?), pedals of unknown compass and the following stops:

 

1. Principal 12' (facade)

2. Oktave 6' + 3'

3. Hintersatz VI-XVIII

 

There were 12 bellows.

 

Pedal had no own pipes, it was coupled to the manual and played probably the tonic + upper quint or lower fourth.

There were 4 possibilities of registration:

 

2. alone

2.+1.

2.+3.

2.+1.+3.

 

No. 2. was always on.

1. and 3. had sliders ("Muschelschleifen").

 

The organ was discovered and described by Werner Renkewitz, son of the former pastor of the church.

 

1944/45 the Gothic organ and another one from 1649/53 were both destroyed.

 

For details see: Karl Bormann, "Die gotische Orgel von bartenstein vom Jahr 1395", Ars Organi 1966/29

 

Krzysztof.

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Another object from 1395 was preserved in parts till 1944/45 in Bartoszyce/Bartenstein.

The organ was built by Magister Paul, whose wife - "die Orgelmecheryne" - was already noted as a widow in 1400.

The instrument had a manual of 27 keys (F-G-A-a' ?), pedals of unknown compass and the following stops:

 

1. Principal 12' (facade)

2. Oktave 6' + 3'

3. Hintersatz VI-XVIII

 

...

 

No. 2. was always on.

1. and 3. had sliders ("Muschelschleifen").

This is most interesting. Peter Williams's book on the North European organ mentions Praetorius's description of the organ at Halberstadt where a similar variety of registration was obtained by making a different combination of stops available on different manuals, but here we seem to have an unambiguous reference to stops - and if the organ really was from 1395, that would seem to be about 100 years earlier than what I believe is the generally accepted date for their invention. But I make no claims to being an organ historian!

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