innate Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 That's why we use a data projector & computer! I work with one of these every Sunday. I have to proofread the PowerPoint file to check for any errors in the words of the hymns (including spelling mistakes, number of verses, right version of the hymn, right layout (is the refrain printed on each slide) etc.) and whilst playing in the service I have to keep at least half an eye on the screen to check that the operator is on the ball. The proofreading would be equally necessary if we were to print a service sheet each week. No hymnbook is guaranteed to contain all the hymns a particular church will need; even a church that has a custom-made hymnal will find a lacuna a few years down the line. Additional hymnals aren't entirely satisfactory; remember Garrison Keillor's description of an Episcopalian needing to be an octopus in order to hold all the necessary books and papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newnham Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I work with one of these every Sunday. I have to proofread the PowerPoint file to check for any errors in the words of the hymns (including spelling mistakes, number of verses, right version of the hymn, right layout (is the refrain printed on each slide) etc.) and whilst playing in the service I have to keep at least half an eye on the screen to check that the operator is on the ball. The proofreading would be equally necessary if we were to print a service sheet each week. No hymnbook is guaranteed to contain all the hymns a particular church will need; even a church that has a custom-made hymnal will find a lacuna a few years down the line. Additional hymnals aren't entirely satisfactory; remember Garrison Keillor's description of an Episcopalian needing to be an octopus in order to hold all the necessary books and papers. Hi Why use PowerPoint? There is specialist software avalable for this application, and with that, once a song or hymn (or anything else) is entered in the database and checked it's there ready for the next time. Software costs range from free to around £500. Every Blessing Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innate Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Why use PowerPoint? There is specialist software avalable for this application, and with that, once a song or hymn (or anything else) is entered in the database and checked it's there ready for the next time. Software costs range from free to around £500. If only! Use the right tool for the job The decision to use PowerPoint was made before I arrived and once established it's very hard to change anything. I have a feeling that there was an aspect of "PowerPoint is what our potential congregants are used to - we ought to be giving them lots of whizzy graphics to hold their interest." I am the first person to deride MicroShaft for their bloated design and monopolistic tendencies and I use Apple's Keynote to open any PowerPoint files I'm sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyorgan Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 If only! Use the right tool for the job The decision to use PowerPoint was made before I arrived and once established it's very hard to change anything. I have a feeling that there was an aspect of "PowerPoint is what our potential congregants are used to - we ought to be giving them lots of whizzy graphics to hold their interest." I am the first person to deride MicroShaft for their bloated design and monopolistic tendencies and I use Apple's Keynote to open any PowerPoint files I'm sent. Excellent, I've found another Mac user. Anymore out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coram Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'd hardly recommend it as a new hymn book, but I've recently been turned on to the 1925 Songs of Praise book, the little blue thing which sat in a dusty pile at my previous United Reformed church. I'd never even suspected it had RVW at its helm, and certainly wouldn't have suspected that we owe it the following: Morning has Broken Lord of all Hopefulness My song is love unknown Jerusalem I vow to thee The first three were commissioned for this book, the last two appeared in print for the first time. Isn't that amazing? Its selection of songs for children (including When a knight won his spurs and Dasies are our silver) was far ahead of AMR's 1952 effort (musically at least). This was influenced no doubt by RVW and his friendship with Kodaly; both spoke often of morality in music. In the preface to EH, RVW writes 'Fine melody is a musical, rather than a moral, issue' and Kodaly's quotations are easily googleable in their thousands. I mention this because all debates seem to focus around the family trees of AMR and EH without really looking at this interesting side-avenue. It's come to my attention because on 23rd Feb there is to be a full 'sing-through' of the English Hymnal at Southampton University in tribute to the 50th anniversary of RVW's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwhodges Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'd hardly recommend it as a new hymn book, but I've recently been turned on to the 1925 Songs of Praise book, Another aspect of Songs of Praise was the excellent companion. Not only did it have the usual sources and writer/composer info, but as I recall it was larded with some rather pointed essays by Percy Dearmer. A hymnbook that hardly ever gets mentioned is With One Voice (originally Australian). It may be lacking in the latest things now, but in 1980 it was an excellent way of bringing a congregation tastefully up to date without resorting to supplements (which in conservative country parishes often put people off by asserting their newness). I used it successfully in one place in the mid 1980s to move them on from the old blue A&M Standard. It also has an excellent companion. The slightly extended Catholic edition contains only one extra hymn that I would want added to the main collection. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJJ Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'd hardly recommend it as a new hymn book, but I've recently been turned on to the 1925 Songs of Praise book, the little blue thing which sat in a dusty pile at my previous United Reformed church. I've still got my copy from my school days (sorry WGS - London N12) - I still use it quite a lot too. AJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john carter Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I've still got my copy from my school days (sorry WGS - London N12) - I still use it quite a lot too. AJJ I eventually returned mine to its home (NW4) but often wish I still had it my possession. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 I vaguely remember there was a splendid hymn in SOP which had some marvellous writing along the lines of majestic organ tone rolling around arches of ancient buildings (or something similar), and cried out to be set as an anthem. But I can't remember anything else about it! Any ideas anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 We too used SOP at school. I found it OK, but it never weaned me away from A&M and NEH. That Howells hymn tune ("Severn") is quite good though. I wonder if anyone ever sang it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fairhurst Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I was delighted to learn from 'Strengthen for Service', the volume of essays published to mark 100 years of the English Hymnal, that Songs of Praise (1933 expanded edition) is still in print, largely due to demand from public schools: http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subj...i=9780192312075 But though it's full of wonders for an organist to dig out, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for general congregational use! Having spoken warmly of Common Praise earlier in this thread, I should say that the Church of Scotland's Church Hymnary 4 (like SFS, a Christmas present!) has impressed me greatly as a single-volume solution for the typical Anglican church, even if it's not going to displace NEH or the A&M family from the more traditional church. I can foresee our church adopting it in a few years' time as a replacement for AMNS and the dreaded Songs of Fellowship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barry Williams Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 It is quite striking that no-one has suggested using Hymns for Todays Church or any of the Mayhew publications. Barry Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 It is quite striking that no-one has suggested using Hymns for Todays Church or any of the Mayhew publications. Barry Williams However good the contents, and one could argue about that for a long time, Mayhew's hymnbooks just don't seem to take any wear for any length of time. I've bought them (result of a joint decision) and regretted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Lane Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 It is quite striking that no-one has suggested using Hymns for Todays Church or any of the Mayhew publications. Barry Williams The Mayhew books don't stand up musically or physically. However, Hymns for Today's Church is another matter, it is a good hymn book, but aim more at the traditional evangelical market, i.e. the sort of church which would have used the Anglican Hymn Book. I often use it as a resource, and it has some interesting tunes, like the Wesley tune for Brightest and Best. Jonathan :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Clark Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I'd hardly recommend it as a new hymn book, but I've recently been turned on to the 1925 Songs of Praise book, the little blue thing which sat in a dusty pile at my previous United Reformed church. I'd never even suspected it had RVW at its helm, and certainly wouldn't have suspected that we owe it the following: Morning has Broken Lord of all Hopefulness My song is love unknown Jerusalem I vow to thee . Didn't it also have the delightful Glad that I Live am I? This certainly reminds me of my tme a junior school where we used Songs of Praise. I think Martin Shaw wrote the music but I cannot recall who wrote the words. A short sinple hymn evidently aimed at the younger market but with none of the patronising conceit of today's children's hymns/songs. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebasher Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Didn't it also have the delightful Glad that I Live am I? This certainly reminds me of my tme a junior school where we used Songs of Praise. I think Martin Shaw wrote the music but I cannot recall who wrote the words. A short sinple hymn evidently aimed at the younger market but with none of the patronising conceit of today's children's hymns/songs.Peter 'Glad that I live am I' can be found at SP 499. Music: Geoffrey Shaw, Words: Lizette Woodworth Reese (American poet 1856 - 1935). R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrabombarde Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 If only! Use the right tool for the job The decision to use PowerPoint was made before I arrived and once established it's very hard to change anything. I have a feeling that there was an aspect of "PowerPoint is what our potential congregants are used to - we ought to be giving them lots of whizzy graphics to hold their interest." I am the first person to deride MicroShaft for their bloated design and monopolistic tendencies and I use Apple's Keynote to open any PowerPoint files I'm sent. I would add, hoping there are no paper publishers lurking, that the combination of data projector and electronic hymnbook gives much scope for creativity and diversity, especially in an increasingly digital world, and avoids the obselescence of getting new books which fall apart and still don't contain all the hymns you ever need. in contrast, if you only Google any hymn ever written it seems there's a pretty good chance you'll find it (in several different versions too). And some books (Songs and Hymns of fellowship for instance) put their entire collection onto CD ROM which you get a free copy of if you buy the music edition (not that I have commercial ties to promote!) It just requires someone to know how to advance slides or whatever software you are running. Though I long for the day that all organs come with an LCD screen that can show what is on the main congregational screen...I once played for a wedding in a chapel in which the organ was at the front, completely covered by the projector screen. I thus missed the entire wedding and couldn't see a thing that was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newnham Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I would add, hoping there are no paper publishers lurking, that the combination of data projector and electronic hymnbook gives much scope for creativity and diversity, especially in an increasingly digital world, and avoids the obselescence of getting new books which fall apart and still don't contain all the hymns you ever need. in contrast, if you only Google any hymn ever written it seems there's a pretty good chance you'll find it (in several different versions too). And some books (Songs and Hymns of fellowship for instance) put their entire collection onto CD ROM which you get a free copy of if you buy the music edition (not that I have commercial ties to promote!) It just requires someone to know how to advance slides or whatever software you are running. Though I long for the day that all organs come with an LCD screen that can show what is on the main congregational screen...I once played for a wedding in a chapel in which the organ was at the front, completely covered by the projector screen. I thus missed the entire wedding and couldn't see a thing that was going on. Hi We use a projector virtually every week now - as you say, it's far more practical than any single hymnbook. I don't use too many flashy graphics though - just because the programme has a particular facility it doesn't mean you have to use it! Fancy effects have an effectiveness in inverse proportion to their frequency of use. For hymns, we use yellow text on a dark blue background (research shows this to be the most readable colour combination) in a Sans Serif font - in powerPoint around 36 point bold (that's assuming that the screen is the right size - in many churches it's too small). As to adding monitors for choir, organist, etc., it's relatively easy to do. With a friend of mine, we are running training courses on technology in worship on an occaisional basis - it's amazing how many people make basic errors in presentation. PM me if anyone wants to know more either about courses, or the use of projection in the church context. Every Blessing Tony - who's off to take a service in a church that doesn't (yet) use a projector! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Coleman Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Tony - who's off to take a service in a church that doesn't (yet) use a projector! Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonadkins Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Didn't it also have the delightful Glad that I Live am I? This certainly reminds me of my tme a junior school where we used Songs of Praise. I think Martin Shaw wrote the music but I cannot recall who wrote the words. Yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DQB123 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Good. Tsk Tsk dear Father! There's so much to be said for getting the faithful to look up from their books and sing with lungs full of air - unlike those nasty people who frequent weddings and mumble through Praise My Soul, Make Me A Channel of Your Peace and Now Thank We All Our God! You could screw the fittings for the screen quite nicely to those organ pipes in the picture attachment to your emails (just as they did in the Pentecostal Church (once a proud Welsh Calvinistic Methodist conventicle) in Colwyn Bay .... I'm just looking for a place to put a screen in our Parish Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted June 29, 2008 Author Share Posted June 29, 2008 I'm just looking for a place to put a screen in our Parish Church. In a suitably-sized hole in the churchyard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newnham Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Good. Hi Actually it's far from good - their hymn book is "Baptist praise and Worship" which is pretty poor - and badly afflicted by the "lets modernise the words" disease started by "Hymns for the People" (it's much the same vintage). They also have Mission praise 1, which isn't much help either. Every Blessing Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newnham Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Tsk Tsk dear Father! There's so much to be said for getting the faithful to look up from their books and sing with lungs full of air - unlike those nasty people who frequent weddings and mumble through Praise My Soul, Make Me A Channel of Your Peace and Now Thank We All Our God! You could screw the fittings for the screen quite nicely to those organ pipes in the picture attachment to your emails (just as they did in the Pentecostal Church (once a proud Welsh Calvinistic Methodist conventicle) in Colwyn Bay .... I'm just looking for a place to put a screen in our Parish Church. Hi Quentin Having seen the church, there are a couple of possibilities - but the length of the building is a problem. I have seen one Anglican installation where the screen descends from the chancel side of the chancel arch - which is reasonable if there's no choir, but problematic if there is! Every Blessing Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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