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Speaking as one who detests anything to do with football I watched the clip with some reservation but found it quite inspiring. The Scottish tune came as a bit of a surprise and made me wonder how it came to be used by a football club but both the playing and the instrument were excellent.

 

I must seek out some more conventional recordings of the organ.

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If ti is Paul then I don't think I recognise it.

 

Dave

 

It's Loch Lomond. When I was at primary school, it was what the teacher who could play the piano played for us to walk in and out of assembly to, so it got pretty ingrained!

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What I found surprising was that the organ (or organs - both may have been in use) could shout down 1000 football fans, and we all know how loud they can be!

 

Like Handsoff, I detest football too. Perhaps that's evident from my above comment!

 

Incidentally, I googled the words to the Koeln football club's anthem, then tried to decipher them using Google translate. What came out was equally indecipherable, and I can only assume the words are some local dialect - Koelsch?

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On 12/09/2017 at 19:52, Peter Allison said:

just had a friend point this one out to me, its well played I think

 

This is a wonderful performance. There are several extracts on Youtube, but sadly the DVD seems to be unavailable. I have been looking for a copy for a while now. 

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Yes, an excellent performance.

However, straying slightly, I cannot imagine the need for six manuals on an organ, other than one-upmanship of course!  The need to stretch up to that top manual must be inconvenient, not to say painful, unless the organist is blessed with the arms of a gorilla of course.

In fact, I'd maintain that there is really no need for any more than four manuals as a maximum, bearing in mind that divisions in excess of that number can easily and quickly be assigned to one or more of the four, perhaps by buttons on the key cheeks.

And how many hands to do most organists possess anyway?

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1 hour ago, John Robinson said:

Yes, an excellent performance.

However, straying slightly, I cannot imagine the need for six manuals on an organ, other than one-upmanship of course!  The need to stretch up to that top manual must be inconvenient, not to say painful, unless the organist is blessed with the arms of a gorilla of course.

In fact, I'd maintain that there is really no need for any more than four manuals as a maximum, bearing in mind that divisions in excess of that number can easily and quickly be assigned to one or more of the four, perhaps by buttons on the key cheeks.

And how many hands to do most organists possess anyway?

This instrument is actually 3 organs (main organ and two choir organs) all playable from two consoles. The case on the gallery dates from the late 1730s and an organ by Johann Brandenstein (according to Wikipedia although the link in this text dates the case to 1765). A bit more information can be found at https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.die-orgelseite.de%2Fdisp%2FD_Waldsassen_Stiftsbasilika.htm translated into English to an extent.

Dave

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22 hours ago, DaveHarries said:

This instrument is actually 3 organs (main organ and two choir organs) all playable from two consoles. The case on the gallery dates from the late 1730s and an organ by Johann Brandenstein (according to Wikipedia although the link in this text dates the case to 1765). A bit more information can be found at https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.die-orgelseite.de%2Fdisp%2FD_Waldsassen_Stiftsbasilika.htm translated into English to an extent.

Dave

Indeed it is, but then Passau is 5 organs (main, north aisle, south aisle, choir and echo in the loft!) and it manages with (only) 5 manuals!

My design for a hypothetical organ consists of two organs, each with 6 manual divisions and having only 4 manuals!

Incidentally, I often find such translations a little amusing.  In this case (Waldsassen) Holzregal 16' is translated into Wooden Shelf 16'!

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This appears to be a little gem of an instrument- i wasn’t expecting to listen right through but it kept me captivated. 

 

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22 minutes ago, rogbi200 said:

This appears to be a little gem of an instrument- i wasn’t expecting to listen right through but it kept me captivated. 

Enchanting! Thanks.

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It's a lovely little organ with some unique features including regals with wooden resonators and grotesque masks with animated jaws and eys. The organ has its own website which francophones can enjoy  https://orguestsavin.wordpress.com/

Pirre-Francois Dub Attenti has posted many fine YouTube videos, he's actually a lawyer and plays organ as a hobby, regularly assisting as a registrant at St Sulpice. There's a video of him playing on Vimeo

 

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I wonder what others here think of the above rendition.  I've always assumed that it should be taken far faster, indeed it's marked Vivace in my Peters Edition copy.  He also inserts quite a lot of rubato whereas I haven't come across that before.  He also puts in the occasional ornament which might be gratuitous on his part.  Still, one of the glories of the piece is that (as proved above) it seems to matter little what speed one plays it at, and his slower pace might well be better suited to the acoustic.

CEP

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21 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:

I wonder what others here think of the above rendition.  I've always assumed that it should be taken far faster, indeed it's marked Vivace in my Peters Edition copy. 

I must admit I didn't recognise the piece at first. I thought it was something from the French repertoire rather later in the century! But perhaps that's how it's normally played in France.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpAQI2TpNIU

This (above link) is about the speed I have previously associated with this piece, as well as that I aspire to - because that's what I was taught many years ago.  It's quite well played but the sound is rather poor and it doesn't do justice to the performer, and I have only used it because it's the first one I came across that makes the point.

CEP

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On 26/09/2017 at 12:29, Colin Pykett said:

I wonder what others here think of the above rendition.  I've always assumed that it should be taken far faster, indeed it's marked Vivace in my Peters Edition copy.  He also inserts quite a lot of rubato whereas I haven't come across that before.  He also puts in the occasional ornament which might be gratuitous on his part.  Still, one of the glories of the piece is that (as proved above) it seems to matter little what speed one plays it at, and his slower pace might well be better suited to the acoustic.

CEP

Mr Pykett,

I must disagree with your opinion.  I think for an ad-hoc performance, from memory, by an amateur player, this was extremely good.  Pierre-François is the very talented protégé of Daniel Roth and I believe his mentor advised him well on the interpretation of this piece.

The tempo may not be to your taste, but I think that was all you needed to write.  I feel that to rubbish it in such a pompous manner was unnecessary, bordering on rude.

 

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I suspect the root of the matter is different playing traditions and styles. I wasn't trying to be funny or rude when I commented that I didn't at first recognise the piece.

Although the British organ tradition generally is somewhere between the German and the French (and influenced by both), in Mendelssohn it is perhaps closer to the German - which is unsurprising when one considers his involvement with, and influence on, British music making.

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I think I need to respond to John Carter's post above.  There was certainly no intention to be "pompous", "rude", nor to "rubbish" anything or anyone, and I am extremely sorry that it came over like that to him.  I also apologise to any other members of the forum should they hold similar views.  To try and clarify the matter, I was merely enquiring whether anyone had a view on the matter of tempo so that I could learn something from them - nothing more, nothing less.  Many here are professional musicians (I am not) and far better players than I, and  it seemed an innocuous enough question at the time.

But having said that, surely one is entitled to remark on any performance by any performer?  I am fully aware of the musical pedigree both of the player and his mentor(s), but in view of the turn the dialogue has taken I should like to emphasise that I also admire them enormously.  Mr Carter used the word "amateur" to describe the performer.  I would only respond that this describes me, rather than him.

CEP

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Colin,

I'm sorry, perhaps I was being a bit prickly.  Of course, any of us is free to comment on what we see and hear, but I think criticism needs to be fair.  Personally, I was happy with the tempo  and some of the rubato may have been the result of thinking time in an "off the cuff" performance.  Out of interest, I listened to my own recording of the piece and the speed was much closer to that of Pierre-François than the other example you linked to.  But then I too am an amateur, so my opinion isn't worth much.  Perhaps it is a sign of getting old (and deaf), but when I listen to what I did in years gone by, I am appalled by the way I used to rush things and didn't give the music time to sing.  

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