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"the raw excitement of the previous incarnation"

(Quote)

 

Do you mean the 70's one, the organ I visited in 1978 ?

 

Pierre

 

Yes - and, I know - you did not like it....

:rolleyes:

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Guest Cynic
Yes - and, I know - you did not like it....

B)

 

 

There were others who did not like it, you can be sure. I'm one for a start.

 

When I played it, everything was delightful and entirely as expected until I drew reeds. They might have represented the best 'quasi-French' reeds in the country when they were made, but many of us have heard the real thing by now and realise that the similarity is not that strong! Mind you, I don't find the much-praised Van den Heuvel 'Cavaille-Coll Copy' reeds terribly close to the real thing either. I found the Ely reeds even more difficult to enjoy than those on (shh..) Gloucester. The sound was aggressive, unblending, harsh and brittle.

 

Even then, quite surprisingly, full organ had very little impact further down the Nave for all the shocking noise that could be made upon it in the Choir.

 

Everyone is entitled to their likes and dislikes. Several people commented on the 'wonderful sound' of the organ at St.Thomas, Fifth Avenue recently. To my ears that sounds harsh and unmusical when driven at full pelt. To others it clearly sounds exciting. pcnd's comments have always been consistent - he also misses the sound of Notre Dame de Paris when it was at its most raw. I'm not trying to be rude, pcnd, but would it be worth having your hearing checked? It is now well-known that Ralph Downes could not hear some of the upper partials, which at least partially explains why stops finished to his satisfaction seem to exhibit anti-social overtones.

 

I understand that the original H&H reeds at Ely were already somewhat modified when Arthur Willis came on the scene. His attempts to turn the instrument into a French-sounding one were partially successful, and the results helped him produce some fine recordings and supported his own solo organ compositional output. It might well have been exciting, but did it all make a musical sound? I don't think so. That is something we should be proud of in the UK. Our traditional organs have a refinement of tone which may sound dull compared with the brightest and newest work elsewhere in the world, but it blends with voices. It sings, it does not (usually) scream.

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Yes, Paul!!!

 

When I visited it, I have been very interested with the Solo division,

which was original.

The rest was exactly like those 1950 Delmotte, Stevens, etc, we have by the tons in Belgium,

up to the tiniest village; why cross the channel with a moped on the ferry, then ?

Plain "neo", standardized tone, like a fast-food you get the same from Auckland to Fairbanks.

 

Pierre

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For reedy spice the Septime, in contrast, is so flat from the conventional 21st, it has little meaning within the musical structure so avoiding discord but provides that odd harmonic content (in contrast to even harmonics) which is otherwise provided by the Tierce.

 

PS If it's useful here to expand on the reason why a fundamental difference frequency is produced by sounding of harmonics please let me know on or off list.

 

At the risk of sounding naive, under what circumstances would you normally use a Septieme (or for that matter any of the other rare mutations, like the None 8/9' or the 27th (1 3/13')? I can't recall ever playing an organ which featured them, what exactly do they add? And how the heck do you tune them (in tune to the viol celeste???)

 

Contrabombarde

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At the risk of sounding naive, under what circumstances would you normally use a Septieme (or for that matter any of the other rare mutations, like the None 8/9' or the 27th (1 3/13')? I can't recall ever playing an organ which featured them, what exactly do they add? And how the heck do you tune them (in tune to the viol celeste???)

 

Contrabombarde

 

Any french organ composer from Messiaen to nowadays will explain you how

they use them, and why you need them for countless synthetic colors they ask.

Besides this use, those odd ranks are usefull to bind modern, orchestral chorus reeds

to the flue stops, like A. Harrison did.

But those aren't voiced the same, of course, so that the same ranks won't do for

both roles !

 

Pierre

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Guest Cynic
At the risk of sounding naive, under what circumstances would you normally use a Septieme (or for that matter any of the other rare mutations, like the None 8/9' or the 27th (1 3/13')? I can't recall ever playing an organ which featured them, what exactly do they add? And how the heck do you tune them (in tune to the viol celeste???)

 

Contrabombarde

 

A Septieme might be found amongst the Choir mutations in a job from the 1930's and if in the UK is most likely to be there because the organist of the time enjoyed the music of Karg-Elert. It has a melodic use - a Septieme added to a Cornet ensemble makes a solo sound which is even more reedy and edgy; used without some of the intervening pitches it can sound metallic and bell-like. As part of a Harmonics mixture, it binds very well to a reed ensemble, which is what H&H for example intended it for. In the 1920s, a British organist would be very unlikely to draw mixtures without reeds. Some never drew mixtures at all, on principle - strange but true!

 

A Harmonics mixture is at its most useful on an H&H because frequently (as pcnd often reminds us) the Great Trombas of a typical H&H can be very lacking in fire or brilliance. A reed ensemble with the Harmonics drawn is thus rebalanced! I know a number of original unchanged H&H Harmonics stops - they are all pretty forceful, and in the treble surprisingly bright. This is because they break back for the first time quite high in the manual compass. They are fairly anti-social because both Tierce and Septieme (being tuned true i.e. without beats) are at fairly strong variance with other notes of the tempered scale. A tierce mixture on a C major chord contains both tempered (i.e. sharp) Es and true (i.e. flatter) Es. The disparity between a Septieme (sounding a true high Bb when C is played) and a B flat produced by equal temperament is also fairly grim.

 

You could look at it historically and say that fully clean, clinically in-tune organs are a fairly recent development. If you use such stops as the Harmonics on organs only tuned every few years or so, and there is a sufficiently rich spread of pitches - somewhat like a country choral society or a junior school string orchestra that one more out of tune pipe or less makes relatively little difference.

 

A classic case is the Compton at Downside Abbey. Here many of the mixture ranks, including the Quint and Tierce pitches are taken off normal ranks. However you tune and re-tune that organ, choruses will not lock absolutely into tune when the mixtures are on - and what mixtures!! Some of them have the most bizarre compositions - at least one has 11th and 14th as well as the None. Mind you, it sounds glorious so long as you are not put off by a slight disparity here or there!

 

You ask how one tunes such a stop. There will be different tactics depending on who's doing it, but the method I find the best is to tune a Tierce, for example, in combination with a decent 8' and the Nazard. Once the three pipes lock together into one steady tone, the tierce is correct. I have never tuned a Septieme, but the same method ought to work for at least the bottom half of the compass. Once you have two or three good octaves, you could tune the remainder to the ones already done - in octaves.

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Everyone is entitled to their likes and dislikes. Several people commented on the 'wonderful sound' of the organ at St.Thomas, Fifth Avenue recently. To my ears that sounds harsh and unmusical when driven at full pelt. To others it clearly sounds exciting. pcnd's comments have always been consistent - he also misses the sound of Notre Dame de Paris when it was at its most raw. I'm not trying to be rude, pcnd, but would it be worth having your hearing checked? It is now well-known that Ralph Downes could not hear some of the upper partials, which at least partially explains why stops finished to his satisfaction seem to exhibit anti-social overtones.

 

My hearing is fine, thank you.

 

I just happen to dislike greatly opaque reeds (particularly tubas), tierce mixtures and leathered diapasons. I would agree that the Ely reeds were not exactly French. However, the assistant at the time also liked them, and was extremely unhappy about the H&H revoicing - even to the extent of requesting that he could have the old shallots and tongues.

 

Mark Wimpress (a contributor to this board) also misses the sound of the old Nôtre-Dame organ, as it sounded around the mid-1970s.

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A classic case is the Compton at Downside Abbey. Here many of the mixture ranks, including the Quint and Tierce pitches are taken off normal ranks. However you tune and re-tune that organ, choruses will not lock absolutely into tune when the mixtures are on - and what mixtures!! Some of them have the most bizarre compositions - at least one has 11th and 14th as well as the None. Mind you, it sounds glorious so long as you are not put off by a slight disparity here or there!

 

Well it does not sound so great these days. In fact, one or two fairly recent appraisals of recordings in Organists' Review criticised the sound of this instrument - and suggested that it was in urgent need of a full restoration. I heard a recording recently and thought that it sounded dreadful. Some ranks spoke after others, the tuning was far from acceptable and there were various extraneous sounds, such as wind leaks, which further detracted from the effect.

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"I just happen to dislike greatly opaque reeds (particularly tubas), tierce mixtures and leathered diapasons"

(Quote)

 

So far, so good.

But what if one dislikes greatly rattling reeds (particularly Regals and "french" copies), Quint Mixtures in Bach,

and underscaled, thin, hungry and coughing would-be Diapasons ?

This would leave us with not much....

 

Pierre

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Guest spottedmetal
At the risk of sounding naive, under what circumstances would you normally use a Septieme (or for that matter any of the other rare mutations, like the None 8/9' or the 27th (1 3/13')? I can't recall ever playing an organ which featured them, what exactly do they add? And how the heck do you tune them (in tune to the viol celeste???)

This is a very valid pair of questions.

 

Cynic's reply, above mine, is seminal and most potent but there may be more to add here of a very basic nature.

 

It's a common misconception that upper-work and mixtures are only there to add brilliance - yes and no!

 

At risk of being very simplistic for some (if so please forgive me), there may be others perhaps who are reading this list who are interested but have not joined as members adn may not altogether have been introduced to the various concepts, and experience in crossing boundaries may assist with a fuller picture. Sometimes also, looking at the most basic concepts can enable progressions of thought in new dimensions.

 

The reality is that the classical pipe organ was considered to be a (clumsy) tone synthesizer in which tones are made up, not with 8ft orchestral stops of different tone colours but by harmonics supplied by pipes at different pitches, all to be played together to produce new tones significantly different from their component parts. This is why, for instance John Stanley calls for a Cornet. This is no reed stop but a brilliant synthetic reed made up of a set of upperwork or mixtures, which add together to sythesize the sound of a brilliant brass instrument.

 

In terms of explaining such synthetic sound creation from harmonics, in organ terminology

8ft is the fundamental,

4ft the second harmonic,

the Nazard the third harmonic,

the 2ft the fourth harmonic,

Tierce the fifth,

Larigot the sixth,

Septieme the 7th,

1ft the 8th Harmonic.

 

(The exciting thing about the organs in Venice, in common with other Italian instruments apparently,

is that they include even higher harmomics which make fuller and more effective the effects detailed below.)

 

Each of these is a multiple of the orginal frequency so if we start with the 8ft rank A note below tenor A at 110 Hz, or vibrations per second, the 4ft is at 220Hz, Nazard 330, 2ft 440Hz, Tierce 550Hz, Larigot 660Hz, Septieme 770Hz, 1ft 880Hz. When any of this series is drawn adjacently, for instance the 2ft at 440Hz and the Tierce at 550Hz, the difference is 110Hz, and when correctly tuned, if you are near the pipes, you will hear that as a synthetic bottom A. Similarly the Tierce and the Larigot together are 110Hz apart and you'll hear the bottom A again. (Listening for that synthetic bottom note is the way to accurately ensure the correct tuning - it's easier to hear however at higher pitches). This is also how a series of adjacent harmonics can be used to reinforce a fundamental pitch - but this cannot be done if a harmonic is missing - as for instance the 2ft and Larigot beat at 4ft pitch without the Tierce. However, perhaps one might want to reinforce the 4ft rather than the 8ft in which case this comination works. However, this use is a subtle concept and upside down to many . . .

 

The other use, is the more obviously intended use - additive tone synthesis.

 

I suspect that there are no crematoria using Hammonds nowadays - this is a shame (yes I hate crematoria and one can make rude jokes about Hammonds too . . . ) because the drawbars on the Hammond, perforce, train the skills of additive tone creation to be second nature.

 

The drawbars provide sine waves, flute tones, at (neglecting the bottom two brown ones) the 8ft and all equally tempered versions of the higher harmonics up to the 8th excepting the 7th. If one has the (mis)fortune to have to play one of these, one has to dial in stops beyond the presets like 7 digit telephone numbers which refer to each harmonic at different intensities between 1 and 8. So 830000 is a strong 8ft pitch and a little 4ft - a dull flute sound. They are often shown grouped as 7 digit number 7300000 to identify the top three as the ear-ticklers, tierce, larigot and 1ft.

 

5854 200 represents a smaller 8ft pitch, a strong 2nd harmonic, a weaker 3rd harmonic etc with no 6th and 8th harmonic content - and this is said to synthesise a Diapason tone itself whilst a Trumpet (like that pipe organ John Stanley cornet with its named stop equivalents) is dialled up with 6876 540. Because the drawbars come out towards the player, click on the links for different sound on

http://www.keyboardservice.com/Drawbars.asp

the sounds are recognisable as shapes, reeds bulging in the middle, strings a gentle slope increasing slightly towards the upper harmonics. An Oboe is 4675 300 whilst a Clarinet is tooth shaped, with the odd harmonics being more evident: 7373 430 or 5161 431- That one, for instance, would be more effective with the Septieme, needing the predominently odd harmonics. This is why an 8ft, Nazard, Tierce and Septime give a woodwindy sound and introduction of the even harmonics gives a trumpety reedy sound. On the pipe organ, often more harmonics are available than on the Hammond but at fixed rather than variable intensities.

 

http://thehammondorganstory.com/chapterxiv.asp is useful whilst

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/paul.htm shows how Hammond organists have to add and average their telephone numbers and

http://www.suzukimusic.co.uk/hammond_dowloads/report1.pdf

demonstrates the limitations of Hammonds - in particular by their absence of frequencies above I think 4000 or 8000 Hz and their absence of higher harmonics, as well as the discords caused by their "equal temperament nearest frequency will do" arrangement.

 

So if anyone has access to a Hammond, mucking around with the harmonics, perhaps with a book that describes the shapes, is a good way to become more familiar with how the original flute and diapason choruses were seen to work giving tone colour which one can then transfer to pipe organ playing. In addition, certain Hammond registrations in the category of "Novelty" are worth exploring.

 

For these reasons, the Septieme research and familiarity with the even higer harmonics on the Venice thread with information there from David Elliot and others may continue to be of interest. We're looking for other "mating pairs of Septiemes" there . . . !

 

Best wishes

 

Spottedmetal

 

PS For the avoidance of doubt, I am NOT championing the Hammond, only saying that as a 1930s synthesiser, it is a useful tool in the sound laboratory which is capable of bringing understanding to the harmonic origins of the real instrument. When one looks at a Bourdon simulation with 8040000 one can see how adding on the pipe organ a 4ft Principal to the 8ft Bourdon transforms it into a small Open Diap, or adding even harmonics to the Clarinet transforms it into a different reed, only limited by availability of pipes of 1ft and up . . .

 

PPS

During the early decades of the 20th century, advances had been made in the study of sound. The victorians had studied standing waves and resonant modes on plates demonstrating sand patterns and harmonics, and there had been devices to animate gas flames with sound and see the sequential variations in the nature of what we were later to see on oscilloscopes. Fourier analysis was now being applied to waveforms and Helmholz had demonstrated many principles. Hammond's invention was not new, it was just the first commercial exploitation of being able to construct sounds from a set of harmonics, and bearing in mind the limited number that Laurel Hammond was using, the results obtainable were remarkable. He certainly obtained the endorsement of many elderly musicians at the time, who clearly did not miss the very uppermost harmonics!

 

However, in this way, one also should look anew at the leathered diapason era as one in which builders such as Arthur Harrison clearly understood the potency of providing very smooth sounds, which were capable of total transformation, just like the top three drawbars on the Hammond, with the addition of the appropriate harmonics.

 

PPPS Something rang a bell about a particular Hammond model and I've just found it - the H-100 and X77:

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...100+Series/10/1

It has two added drawbars for the upper manual, one with a mix of the 7th and 9th harmonics, the other a mix of the 10th and 12th harmonics. That was done for better emulation of pipe organ and string sounds. The lower manual only has the added 7th and 9th harmonic drawbar.

http://organforum.com/photos/crossyinoz/picture48128.aspx

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"I just happen to dislike greatly opaque reeds (particularly tubas), tierce mixtures and leathered diapasons"

(Quote)

 

So far, so good.

But what if one dislikes greatly rattling reeds (particularly Regals and "french" copies), Quint Mixtures in Bach,

and underscaled, thin, hungry and coughing would-be Diapasons ?

This would leave us with not much....

 

Pierre

 

Neither do I like rattling reeds and underscaled, thin, hungry and coughing would-be diapasons, Pierre.

 

However, I doubt that many here would also dislike quint mixtures in Bach. I can see no aural or logical objection to such stops, if well scaled and expertly voiced. I would, of course, expect the same of any ranks in an organ.

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"I doubt that many here would also dislike quint mixtures in Bach."

(Quote)

 

Of course !

We never heard anything else, so we cannot compare.

Already in the 30's, Dupré militated for Quint Mixtures; the french

baroque organ knew only them since about 1700.

The Andreas Silbermann organs were considered "Bach-organs",

which they weren't....But french organs.

The Schnitger organs were decreted "The organs Bach would -should?-

have preffered" ( Nobody asked him, of course, as we lost his phone number).

And Tierce Mixture ranks are rare in these organs, so everybody soon believed

"The classic Diapason chorus is made of octave and quint ranks".

Period!

I once told this "Truth" to my teacher (it was in the 70's).

 

-Where did you learn that ?

-In this and that books.

-When were they written ?

-1948, 1950, 1964....

-All from the same period ? Fatal error!!!

 

We human beings love to believe we know, and to create networks of "good

friends" who comfort us in that belief, who share the "faith"; so we never must

be content with data from within one circle, or epoch, alone.

If you take the Schlimbach, for example, a book from 1811 which describes

a fully baroque style -the J. Wagner school-, nearly all the Mixture specs

he gave had indeed tierce ranks.

 

If I were rich I'd organize a little german tour -Angermünde, Brandenburg Dom,

Altenburg, Walterhausen ...

 

Pierre

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Thanks very much for those two very comprehensive and clear explanations of upper harmonics and Septiemes and Nones. I'm familiar with the concept Hammond had of adding sine waves, but for some the idea may be new, and the example of multiples of tenor A at 110 Hz is very useful. I didn't know however what the Septieme and None add, or why so few organs have them if they are useful (or why any bother if they aren't)...

 

So next question - if demonstrating the full talent of an organ large enough to have these stops, what wold you play to show them off?

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So next question - if demonstrating the full talent of an organ large enough to have these stops, what wold you play to show them off?

Vagn Holmboe's Contrasti. It clearly needs a non-Romantic organ, but no registration is indicated, so you have carte blanche to experiment. There are one or two movements where you could employ these stops, if you were so minded.

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Guest spottedmetal
Thanks very much for those two very comprehensive and clear explanations of upper harmonics and Septiemes and Nones. I'm familiar with the concept Hammond had of adding sine waves, but for some the idea may be new, and the example of multiples of tenor A at 110 Hz is very useful. I didn't know however what the Septieme and None add, or why so few organs have them if they are useful (or why any bother if they aren't)...

 

So next question - if demonstrating the full talent of an organ large enough to have these stops, what wold you play to show them off?

As a matter of completeness Stephen Bicknell's most valuable explanation of harmonics is good reading and makes significant extra points (although I don't share all of his opinions!):

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~oneskull/3.6.01.htm

 

One paragraph catches the eye at the end:

Still more recently some organ builders have tried to push the idea even further, providing new and unusual off-unison ranks in order to offer the player new and unusual timbres. As these effects have been explored mostly by builders whose tonal ideal is concentrated at the bat level of the spectrum. The 'new and unusal timbres' turn out mostly to imitate small angry birds and alarm clocks. Germany in the 1960s was awash with Aliquots, Obertons, Nonenkornetts, Schreipfiefen and other insects.

 

In view of recent experience of an instrument of 1750, I'd respectfully disagree with the off-hand dismissal of the usefulness of the super-high harmonics, but love the sense of humour expressed! Perhaps the Venetians have more to give us than the Germans . . . ? Is this where Vox could record the Vagn Holmboe's Contrasti?

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

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Perhaps the Venetians have more to give us than the Germans . . .

Ooooh! You're playing with fire on that one! :blink:

 

Glad you liked your new name, it's just easier to type.

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Guest Cynic
Ooooh! You're playing with fire on that one! :blink:

 

Glad you liked your new name, it's just easier to type.

 

Thinks: this topic has been completely hi-jacked, hasn't it? It was a good topic too.

Anyway, I write to continue this major digression and frustrate the original poster, myself, as it happens.

 

 

Maybe it's already been mentioned, if so I've missed it, but if not someone should.....

The reason Italian mutation ranks (especially stratospheric ones) sound perfectly acceptable is that they break back - indeed they break back pretty early, so that the smallest speaking length is still more than an inch long. The modern mutations to which Spot has been referring often continue until the smallest speaking length is less than a quarter of an inch. Essentially, the Italian system provided for the same pitch spread and repetitions as a French Plein Jeu - and (as so often happens) because there are so many ranks, the blend and even spread of harmonics is exceptionally successful. One of the problems of the average British mixture is that it doesn't have enough ranks - those that are present have to work so hard and the breaks are therefore so much more obvious. A IV is not necessarily any louder than a III - unless it has been built by an ignorant firm!

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Guest spottedmetal
Thinks: this topic has been completely hi-jacked, hasn't it? It was a good topic too.

Anyway, I write to continue this major digression and frustrate the original poster, myself, as it happens.

Dear All

 

Sorry to hi-jack this thread back on track - as the discussion on upperwork and how it works best really is worth continuing - but I had an email this morning from a builder interested in an 18th century organ someone drew to my attention and I happened to look up his site. He maintains Giggleswick School Chapel a "famous 1901 Willis Organ, a gift to the school from Henry Willis". 3 manual specification with a 32' Contra Trombone and 32' Sub Bass and presumably a lot of the pedal department borrowed from the manuals . . . ?

 

Back to upperwork . . . :-)

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

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Guest Cynic
Dear All

 

Sorry to hi-jack this thread back on track - as the discussion on upperwork and how it works best really is worth continuing - but I had an email this morning from a builder interested in an 18th century organ someone drew to my attention and I happened to look up his site. He maintains Giggleswick School Chapel a "famous 1901 Willis Organ, a gift to the school from Henry Willis". 3 manual specification with a 32' Contra Trombone and 32' Sub Bass and presumably a lot of the pedal department borrowed from the manuals . . . ?

 

Back to upperwork . . . :-)

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

 

The Giggleswick Chapel organ is extremely fine, but I should warn you that the lowest octave of the 32' reed is only prepared for, and the 32' flue is acoustic for the bottom 12 - mind you, the 10.2/3 Quint element of this is provided by an independent (correctly tuned) rank. I have recently made a recording of this instrument which we hope will appear on CD fairly soon. It sounds like a Father Willis, but only about half actually is by him. This instrument was 'updated' some years ago and its character was pretty comprehensively changed. Gary Owens (GO-organs) has carried out the recent major work of putting things back as they should be, replacing missing ranks along with major mechanical improvements and a general spruce-up. This instrument does him enormous credit.

 

There was recently an excellent article in The Organ (no.338) by Professor Ian Tracy, accompanied by some glorious photographs, though the specification given in that article is not accurate. There are no longer Nazard and Tierce stops on the Choir and (as stated above) the bass octave of the 32' is yet to arrive (extremely expensive as these pipes are). Actually, the balance of the instrument is such that one doesn't really miss them. You suggest that some of the pedal ranks must ('presumably') be borrowed from the manuals. In fact, only the Swell 16' Oboe is borrowed. The excellent Violone, Bourdon and Trombone ranks are all independent of the manuals.

 

The organ case is by Sir Thomas Jackson, standing in a chapel by the same architect. It's all quite splendid; unfortunately it is also well off the beaten track!

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Guest spottedmetal
The Giggleswick Chapel organ is extremely fine . . . I have recently made a recording of this instrument which we hope will appear on CD fairly soon. It sounds like a Father Willis, but only about half actually is by him. This instrument was 'updated' some years ago and its character was pretty comprehensively changed. Gary Owens (GO-organs) has carried out the recent major work of putting things back as they should be, replacing missing ranks along with major mechanical improvements and a general spruce-up. This instrument does him enormous credit. . . . It's all quite splendid; unfortunately it is also well off the beaten track!

Dear Cynic

 

Sounds like a good one! It's nice to hear of a builder who appreciates the needs of the heritage. There's a lovely quote in Andrew Freeman's booklet, which I've now mislaid, about how new organists despise the old organist's organ - this clearly happened on this one some time back and it's good to see such a change reversed. Why cannot people understand an instrument for the instrument it was built, rather than constantly want to transform it into another?

 

I'm sure we'd all like to hear about your CD in due course, so that we can hear the instrument without having to tread the off-beaten track!

 

It would be lovely to transport organists of domed churches to the domes of Venice to hear those crystal harmonics in 10 second acoustics . . . No complaints about the heritage pedalboards though . . . As I've heard organists rail against the use of pedals in Bach at all, who cares if the pedalboard only has a dozen or 15 notes starting somewhere on a F? At least then C is in the middle!

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

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Guest spottedmetal
:):blink::blink:

Yes - bizarre - but I heard of a talented chorister who played that card making a stand playing Bach without pedals on a scholarship to Eton and made a suitable impression! Clearly a candidate to send to play in Venice!

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

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Guest spottedmetal
I give it again for you, Spottedmetal:

http://www.gewalcker.de/gewalcker.de/2007-.../Chanon(02).wmv

 

Here you hear an untouched 1886 Walcker Mixture.

Note the yellow, golden color.

And note towards the end -when the volume has been reduced- what

it gives as an effect in big chords (there are no reed stops!).

 

Could anyone give a sound file of an "Harmonics" Mixture,

and/ or a Willis tierce Mixture,please ?

 

Pierre

 

Dear Pierre

 

Thanks so much for that link: I hope others have clicked on it - IT'S A FANTASTIC SOUND! Quite outrageous. I was on limited expensive bandwidth when you posted it so could not download it at the time, but now at home really worth downloading it.

 

Really incredible for a one manual instrument. What is the piece? There's a section in the middle (52 secs) that is reminiscent of the chord progression of the Boellman Toccata.

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

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Dear Pierre

 

Thanks so much for that link: I hope others have clicked on it - IT'S A FANTASTIC SOUND! Quite outrageous. I was on limited expensive bandwidth when you posted it so could not download it at the time, but now at home really worth downloading it.

 

Really incredible for a one manual instrument. What is the piece? There's a section in the middle (52 secs) that is reminiscent of the chord progression of the Boellman Toccata.

 

Best wishes

 

Spot

 

The piece is Durufle's Fugue sur le theme du Carillon des Heures de la Cathedrale de Soissons, Op.12...........

 

Graham

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