House Organs Continued

[JWAnderson]

Hi everyone!

 

Just in the last couple of days, I have been thinking of house organs again.

The reason for this is that I am starting to get tired of going around to the church to practice on a rubbish Rodgers Digital.

Anyways, the idea I had was to reuse whatever material I could find.

So, the organ must contain

• 4rks of pipes
  
• Your choice of how many manuals
  
• As compact a design as possible
  

My idea was to have 1 Manual & Pedal with the following specification:

Manual

Lieblich Gedact 8'

Gemshorn or Dulciana 8' (with common bass)

Principal 4'

Fifteenth 2'

Tremulant

 

Pedal

Gedackt 8' (pneumatically borrowed from manual)

Manual to Pedal

 

So what would you do if you had the opportunity?

 

JA

[Pierre Lauwers]

MANUAL I

 

Lieblich Gedackt 8' (Treble with double mouths to get a clear tone as a Flute substitute)

Dulciana 8'

 

MANUAL II (enclosed)

 

Dulciane 8' (1)

Voix céleste 8'

Dulciana Principal 4'

 

Pedal

 

Subbass 16' (extension from the Lieblich Gedackt)

 

(1) A very soft Gamba, less assertive than an Aeoline. Will serve as a Diapason II,

with Manual I coupled+ Dulciana Principal.

 

Pierre

[Guest Cynic]

So what would you do if you had the opportunity?

 

 

A little practice organ I built for a friend more than ten years ago has the following spec. It takes up little more room than a pianola, is probably lighter than a pianola, and it stands in a corner of a bedroom. It was voiced on the gentle side and cannot be heard from downstairs!

 

Lower Manual

Gedackt 8

Salicional 8 (voiced like a very small diapason)

Open Flute 4

Fifteenth 2 (tiny)

 

Upper Manual

Stopped Diapason 8* (mid 19th century)

 

Pedal couplers

 

The case is simple sapele-veneered chipboard, more-or-less floor to ceiling, with doors above the music desk which open to let more sound into the room. Blower and small reservoir are integral. Mechanical key and stop action. All pipework recycled from old (redundant) instruments.

 

*The Stopped Diapason is quite full-toned, it serves two purposes

1. it will accompany any combination of two stops on the lower manual

2. it will hold its own as solo against either of the 8's on the lower manual

 

At least one member of this forum has seen and played it besides myself.

This little job gets a major amount of use - my friend's church is a fifteen minute car-journey away and always unheated during the week!

[Guest Barry Williams]

A little practice organ I built for a friend more than ten years ago has the following spec. It takes up little more room than a pianola, is probably lighter than a pianola, and it stands in a corner of a bedroom. It was voiced on the gentle side and cannot be heard from downstairs!

 

Lower Manual

Gedackt 8

Salicional 8 (voiced like a very small diapason)

Open Flute 4

Fifteenth 2 (tiny)

 

Upper Manual

Stopped Diapason 8* (mid 19th century)

 

Pedal couplers

 

The case is simple sapele-veneered chipboard, more-or-less floor to ceiling, with doors above the music desk which open to let more sound into the room. Blower and small reservoir are integral. Mechanical key and stop action. All pipework recycled from old (redundant) instruments.

 

*The Stopped Diapason is quite full-toned, it serves two purposes

1. it will accompany any combination of two stops on the lower manual

2. it will hold its own as solo against either of the 8's on the lower manual

 

At least one member of this forum has seen and played it besides myself.

This little job gets a major amount of use - my friend's church is a fifteen minute car-journey away and always unheated during the week!

 

 

My wife and I played this organ when we were considering what to do for our house.

 

The Stopped Diapason on the upper keyboard is, I think, by Gray (later of Gray & Davison.) It is a gem. The pleasure of playing that rank alone exceeded any numbers of chips, plastic keyboards and loudspeakers.

 

Barry Williams

[JWAnderson]

A little practice organ I built for a friend more than ten years ago has the following spec. It takes up little more room than a pianola, is probably lighter than a pianola, and it stands in a corner of a bedroom. It was voiced on the gentle side and cannot be heard from downstairs!

 

Lower Manual

Gedackt 8

Salicional 8 (voiced like a very small diapason)

Open Flute 4

Fifteenth 2 (tiny)

 

Upper Manual

Stopped Diapason 8* (mid 19th century)

 

Pedal couplers

 

The case is simple sapele-veneered chipboard, more-or-less floor to ceiling, with doors above the music desk which open to let more sound into the room. Blower and small reservoir are integral. Mechanical key and stop action. All pipework recycled from old (redundant) instruments.

 

*The Stopped Diapason is quite full-toned, it serves two purposes

1. it will accompany any combination of two stops on the lower manual

2. it will hold its own as solo against either of the 8's on the lower manual

 

At least one member of this forum has seen and played it besides myself.

This little job gets a major amount of use - my friend's church is a fifteen minute car-journey away and always unheated during the week!

 

Thanks for this Cynic.

It looks like a very interesting specification. If I had the money, I probably would add another 8-ft Flute, but unfortunately there are not many redundant organs in New Zealand, and it is quite expensive to import pipework from Europe.

Another advantage to adding a second Flute to my scheme, would be that they could both be pneumatically borrowed to the pedal, for a softer or louder bass. I could possibly set it up to get 4-ft flutes on the Pedal aswell?

[Jonathan Lane]

Thanks for this Cynic.

It looks like a very interesting specification. If I had the money, I probably would add another 8-ft Flute, but unfortunately there are not many redundant organs in New Zealand, and it is quite expensive to import pipework from Europe.

Another advantage to adding a second Flute to my scheme, would be that they could both be pneumatically borrowed to the pedal, for a softer or louder bass. I could possibly set it up to get 4-ft flutes on the Pedal aswell?

 

I would go for something like this:

 

Manual I

Lieblich Gedact 8

Gemshorn 4

 

Manual II

Lieblich Gedact 8 (transmission from Manual I)

Chimney Flute 4

Flageolet 2

 

Pedal

Lieblich Gedact 8 (transmission from Manual I)

Gemshorn 4 (transmission from Manual I - useful for pedal choral solo's)

 

Tremulant to whole organ.

 

I would go for mechanical action, but like the stop list, this is personal taste!

 

If you wanted a small read, say an Oboe, you could replace the Flageolet, or go for 5 ranks!

 

Jonathan

[Guest Barry Williams]

This is interesting. The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'.

 

With this number of ranks what about:

 

Manual I

 

Stopped diapason 8'

Salicional 8'

Flute 4'

Dulciana 4'

Dulciana 2'

 

Manual II

 

Flute 8'

Dulciana 8'

Stopped diapason 4'

Salicional 4'

Flute 2'

 

Pedal

 

Stopped diapason 16' (mitred)

Stopped diapason 8'

Salicional 8'

Flute 4'

Dulciana 4'

 

Both Flutes to have common bottom octave (twelve notes from CC). Common bottom octave (open pipes) to Salicional and Dulciana, possibly a few mitred in a house. (This saves much space.)

 

 

Barry Williams

[Jonathan Lane]

This is interesting. The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'.

 

Hence my suggestion about a lightly voiced Oboe. I wouldn't see the point in using a 2', unless one has a very big music room!

 

Jonathan

[Guest Hector5]

My wife's school has the following ex. house organ:

 

Great

8 Open Diapason (t.c. - stopped bass)

8 Stopped Diapason

Swell to Great

 

Swell

8 Viola (stopped bass)

4 Open Flute

 

Pedals

Great to Pedal

 

This organ is simply wonderful. It may look like an octopod, but there is little you can't do with it. The voicing is beautiful (Williamson & Hyatt re working if Bedwell pipework), the action (mechanical) a dream. And it looks good too. The chapel seats about 150 people and the organ does a fine job.

 

I would love this organ at home, although sadly we'll have to put up with our 5 stop box organ pro-tem. However, in an ideal world, I'd add:

 

Great

4 Dulcet (conical - similar to the stop on the old Addington Palace Harrison with a nice silvery tone)

 

Swell

Open Flute to 8' pitch

Harmonic Flute instead of Open Flute

 

Pedal

Add a sythesised 16' pedal bass with an independant 8' flute, and an octave of Quint pipes mildly voiced. I've heard this on some continental house organs to great effect.

 

Some of the most successful house organs seem to be ones where the owners/builders have shied away from shrill upperwork. I think that I'd get very quickly bored of a single 8' rank, dressed up with a few mild squeaky bits and pieces.

 

Hector

[Pierre Lauwers]

"The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'. "

(Quote)

 

I see no point in any 2' in a chamber organ like that.

The Pedal needs a 16', or suffice pull-downs then, with

a baroque one-manual design such as this:

 

Bourdon 8'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2 2/3'

Doublette 2'

Tierce 1 3/5'

 

In any other scheme, I see no way without 16' Subbass

and Voix céleste.

 

Pierre

[Guest spottedmetal]

Hi!

 

It really depends on the space available, the height, and the space into which it can speak . . . Height need not be a problem - mitring pipes is often done, and in our case a balcony sits on top of our Hunter and the ceiling is an important factor when tuning. From memory, I think we might have cut an inch or two off a pipe or two . . . and let the ceiling do the rest but speech stability can be an interesting challenge to achieve.

 

On a smaller scale, the single manual Sprague here is a satisfying 8842 single manual with Stopped, Open, Principal and 2ft Flute - a very sweet silvery flute. A joy to play but without pedals . . .

 

Ideally two manuals and pedals . . . has anyone tried tracker with electric enhancement for extension? I was talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago who told me about such a scheme for intermanual coupling - but such tricks could be applied laterally rather than vertically to great effect and much better than a pure extension organ.

 

Best wishes

 

Spottedmetal

 

PS http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=130192429583 ends tonight - looks house-friendly!

[Guest Cynic]

Hi!

 

It really depends on the space available, the height, and the space into which it can speak . . . Height need not be a problem - mitring pipes is often done, and in our case a balcony sits on top of our Hunter and the ceiling is an important factor when tuning. From memory, I think we might have cut an inch or two off a pipe or two . . . and let the ceiling do the rest but speech stability can be an interesting challenge to achieve.

 

On a smaller scale, the single manual Sprague here is a satisfying 8842 single manual with Stopped, Open, Principal and 2ft Flute - a very sweet silvery flute. A joy to play but without pedals . . .

 

Ideally two manuals and pedals . . . has anyone tried tracker with electric enhancement for extension? I was talking to a friend a couple of weeks ago who told me about such a scheme for intermanual coupling - but such tricks could be applied laterally rather than vertically to great effect and much better than a pure extension organ.

 

Best wishes

 

Spottedmetal

 

PS http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=130192429583 ends tonight - looks house-friendly!

 

I'd be a bit wary of recommending this one. It's a Casson Positive Organ and like more or less all of the species, it has a very peculiar compass. You would be stuck if you wanted to play much other than hymns, I'm afraid.

[Guest Barry Williams]

"The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'. "

(Quote)

 

I see no point in any 2' in a chamber organ like that.

The Pedal needs a 16', or suffice pull-downs then, with

a baroque one-manual design such as this:

 

Bourdon 8'

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2 2/3'

Doublette 2'

Tierce 1 3/5'

 

In any other scheme, I see no way without 16' Subbass

and Voix céleste.

 

Pierre

 

The problem with stop lists like this is that the 8' has to be used almost all of the time.

 

A specification of 8' 8' 4' has rather more variety than 8' 4' 2'.

 

Barry Williams

[davidh]

Look here

http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/organ.html

for an interesting specification.

[Guest Cynic]

Look here

http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/organ.html

for an interesting specification.

 

 

 

Pity this photo doesn't show much the room itself. Few of us could hope to house an instrument of that size and specification, let alone commission it.

Thinks: in the wrong business? Wrong country?

[Guest Barry Williams]

Pity this photo doesn't show much the room itself. Few of us could hope to house an instrument of that size and specification, let alone commission it.

Thinks: in the wrong business? Wrong country?

 

 

'Wrong business? Wrong country?'

 

Certainly, the church organist business is very different in the USA. By and large, their organists are treated better in every way, both in terms of remuneration and terms of engagement. Also, many full-time church organists have sigificant recital programmes and tours to supplement their church work. An added bonus is working with professional choirs, also properly paid.

 

Barry Williams

[mrbouffant]

I'm reminded of an article which appeared in OR a couple of years back of an enthusiastic lady amateur organist (with lots of ££, obviously) who had a three manual organ commissioned for her "music room". I think Thos. Trotter gave the opening recital!

[Pierre Lauwers]

The problem with stop lists like this is that the 8' has to be used almost all of the time.

 

A specification of 8' 8' 4' has rather more variety than 8' 4' 2'.

 

Barry Williams

 

Indeed,

 

But it was quite frequent in Belgium during the 18th century: no 8' Principal,

and only an 8' Bourdon, in flemish organs as well as in Le Picard organs

in Liège.

There is one good example near here, in Gerpinnes. The organ was restored

recently (the consultant was my teacher, Jean-Pierre Félix) by Rudi Jacques

of Hastière (10 Miles from here), and reopened by Michel Chapuis, who was

delighted with it:

 

http://www.orguesjacques.org/gerpinnes.htm

 

And though, we deal here with something bigger than a chamber organ !

 

Now I freely agree a british baroque organ -like the italians- need its 8' Principal,

moreover, for the british, both open and stopped Diapasons.

But this is not true in all baroque styles...

 

Pierre

[pwhodges]

Thinks: in the wrong business? Wrong country?

I'm in the right business, if Knuth is the measure (he was one of my gods in the 1970s) - but it hasn't helped me towards anything like that!

 

Paul

[gazman]

This is interesting. The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'.

 

With this number of ranks what about:

 

Manual I

 

Stopped diapason 8'

Salicional 8'

Flute 4'

Dulciana 4'

Dulciana 2'

 

Manual II

 

Flute 8'

Dulciana 8'

Stopped diapason 4'

Salicional 4'

Flute 2'

 

Pedal

 

Stopped diapason 16' (mitred)

Stopped diapason 8'

Salicional 8'

Flute 4'

Dulciana 4'

 

Both Flutes to have common bottom octave (twelve notes from CC). Common bottom octave (open pipes) to Salicional and Dulciana, possibly a few mitred in a house. (This saves much space.)

Barry Williams

 

And you could combine the Stopped Diapason 16' with the Dulciana 8' as a Dulciana helper to give you a "Contra Dulciana" at 16' pitch on the pedal. Very useful. The organ in one of my churches (2m H&H, ex RSCM) has a double stopped rank on the Great and, when combined with the Dulciana, sounds totally like an open rank, right down to bottom C.

[pcnd5584]

"The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'. "

(Quote)

 

I see no point in any 2' in a chamber organ like that.

The Pedal needs a 16', or suffice pull-downs then, with

a baroque one-manual design such as this:

 

Bourdon 8'

 

Flûte 4'

Nasard 2 2/3'

Doublette 2'

Tierce 1 3/5'

 

In any other scheme, I see no way without 16' Subbass

and Voix céleste.

 

Pierre

 

Absolutely! With this in mind, I suggest the following scheme:

 

PEDAL ORGAN

 

Stopped Diapason 16 (Extended from G.O.)

Stopped Flute 4 (Derived from G.O.)

Great to Pedal

 

GREAT ORGAN

 

Stopped Diapason 8

Viola 8

Voix Céleste (C13) 8

Harmonic Flute 4

Sub Octave (also acts on the 16ft. extension)

 

 

Ideally, the strings would be enclosed for added flexibility. I would also have the Stopped Diapason (8ft.) available on double touch, in order that it could be used as a solo against the strings. The H&H organ of King's College Chapel, Cambridge used to have this facility available as a Solo to Great (by double touch). Whether it still has, I do not know.

[pcnd5584]

Look here

http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/organ.html

for an interesting specification.

 

Well, yes - but it is a good deal larger than the brief given at the start of the thread. This would be more easy to design.

[Pierre Lauwers]

Absolutely! With this in mind, I suggest the following scheme:

 

PEDAL ORGAN

 

Stopped Diapason 16 (Extended from G.O.)

Great to Pedal

 

GREAT ORGAN

 

Stopped Diapason 8

Viola 8

Voix Céleste (C13) 8

Harmonic Flute 4

Sub Octave (also acts on the 16ft. extension)

Ideally, the strings would be enclosed for added flexibility. I would also have the Stopped Diapason (8ft.) available on double touch, in order that it could be used as a solo against the strings. The H&H organ of King's College Chapel, Cambridge used to have this facility available as a Solo to Great (by double touch). Whether it still has, I do not know.

 

Very goooooood !

 

As you chose the second touch as a second Manual substitute, I note you take

the electric action which goes with.

 

.....And with that electric action, it is not that expansive to have two manuals, though,

where you could have any stop on any one at will.

 

Pierre

[Jonathan Lane]

"The least used stop on our House Organ is the 2'. "

(Quote)

 

In any other scheme, I see no way without 16' Subbass

and Voix céleste.

 

Pierre

 

I agree about a 16 Subbass, in an ideal world, a 16 stop is essential, and if there is space, extending from a Stopped 8' seems sensible. As much as I like a good Voix Celeste, it does become wearing in a very dry acoustic, and in a room it would be a waste of a stop in my view, especially on our tight premise.

 

Jonathan

[AJJ]

I like the look of this:

 

http://www.jennings-organs.co.uk/pages/9s-houseorg.htm

 

AJJ