Colin Harvey Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Colin's point about the Solo is also a good one: there is no choral tradition at St. Matt's and the present Organist is a fine improviser - I was given the brief to ensure that the organ was best suited for recitals and specifically improvisation - so that's what we decided on. Always the same I suppose, what to leave out and what do you put in - especially when there is a limited budget. DW Ah, I see. I imagine there will be provision to add further Chamades in future when the Solo Bombardes are no longer enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Willis Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Ah, I see. I imagine there will be provision to add further Chamades in future when the Solo Bombardes are no longer enough... Don't even think about it!! In answer to several earlier question: David C: There is only the usual extension of the Pedal ranks but the mutations are independent. JA: It will all go into the triforium chamber (which is actually considerably larger than it looks, plus the full-height 'well' to the south end of the chamber for all of the Pedal stuff. DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 LOL... :-) Good Luck with it all! I would keep the pedal mutation ranks independant. It looks better with more stops at the console, etc. Plus PC had those famed stops on his own organ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHM Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Oh well, here goes: ......Aachen Cathedral Only the Cathedral? Not the Dreifaltigkeitskirche?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Good point. Yes, you are right since we did go to the Dreifaltigkeitskirche first. However, the fact that the Schwellwerk to Pedal coupler was unusable (it had a cipher) did take the edge off it a bit and with hindsight I do think the cathedral organ was better - and it has left the more satisfying memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWAnderson Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Don't even think about it!! In answer to several earlier question: David C: There is only the usual extension of the Pedal ranks but the mutations are independent. JA: It will all go into the triforium chamber (which is actually considerably larger than it looks, plus the full-height 'well' to the south end of the chamber for all of the Pedal stuff. DW Thanks David. Good luck with the project and I will look forward to seeing it when completed. JA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombarde32 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Oh well, here goes: Grossmünster, Zürich (only on LP, alas) Me too - especially with the Hindemith. Such exciting sounds. A major influence on me at the time! Winchester Cathedral Westminster Cathedral Clifton Cathedral Farnborough Abbey Christ Church Cathedral Oxford Astra Theatre Llandudno (sadly gone) Guildhall, Southampton (Variety and Classical Consoles!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigel ALLCOAT Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I was given the brief to ensure that the organ was best suited for recitals and specifically improvisation - so that's what we decided on.DW I am scratching my head concerning what an organ builder must do to make an organ specific for the discipline/Art of Improvisation. Can you educate me? Many thanks. Best wishes, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Willis Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I am scratching my head concerning what an organ builder must do to make an organ specific for the discipline/Art of Improvisation. Can you educate me? Many thanks. Best wishes, Nigel Sorry Nigel - I think you are slightly misinterpreting (or perhaps over-interpreting) my words: I did not say that the organ was to be made specific for the art of improvisation: the point was made to us that there were not any requirements for 'Choral Accompaniment', which is perhaps more to the point. In our discussions it was made quite clear to me that the emphasis was on the organ's being used for improvisation within the liturgy. and recitals. Of course, a stop list tells you nothing! DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I am scratching my head concerning what an organ builder must do to make an organ specific for the discipline/Art of Improvisation. Can you educate me? Many thanks. Best wishes, Nigel For having dealt with a project from Jean Guillou, I know he would explain that for an organ aimed at improvisation you need to specify the solo stops first, the traditionnal ensembles being cared for afterwards, with as a price to pay the need, sometimes, to use couplers to form them. Of course this is a matter of style. You can improvise with 8-4-2-Zymbel as well. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coram Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 You can improvise with 8-4-2-Zymbel as well. You can improvise with anything so long as it is musical. At an event a couple of years ago, lots of organists came up to a console and pulled everything out and made "YADADADADADADA" music, as it might be termed. Peter Hurford arrived at the console and asked the organ builder "What is the prettiest stop on this organ?" "The Stopped Diapason on the Choir," came the answer. "Then I shall play on that." And he did. And all were enchanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I am scratching my head concerning what an organ builder must do to make an organ specific for the discipline/Art of Improvisation. Can you educate me? Many thanks. Best wishes, Nigel This is exactly my point. I guess it depends upon the taste of the the people asking for the organ. Some will want something with lots of loud reeds to do their hommage a Notre Dame. Others can improvise to the heavens with the gentle and subtle sounds of an English Romantic organ, supposedly designed for Choral Accompaniment. Others will feel something along French Classical lines is necessary for improvisation. And some (like Jean Gulliou) will feel that something cubist is best for their improvisations. I guess it's important for an organ builder to look at the client and see what they are really asking for. And I think that's what Willis's have done... So all credit to them! Personally, I would have thought a traditional solo division with enclosed flutes, strings + celeste, an orchestral oboe and clarinet plus tuba would be more useful for improvisation, rather than the solo organ specified, which is 80% loud reeds so is very limited for any improvisations less than ffff on the richter scale. I guess a good tuba plus octave couplers could be used for those moments - it's not as if it's a huge church with poor acoustics, anyway. But then, I'm not the organist of this church with the money bags this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHM Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Good point. Yes, you are right since we did go to the Dreifaltigkeitskirche first. However, the fact that the Schwellwerk to Pedal coupler was unusable (it had a cipher) did take the edge off it a bit and with hindsight I do think the cathedral organ was better - and it has left the more satisfying memories. I would agree, not least because there were times when it sounded so English (particularly in Howells, Sumsion and Psalm accompaniments) - maybe that was just your registrational skills! I only raised the question because I thought you once said the other one was your favourite of that tour. The other remarkable thing about both of these organs (both by Klais) was that they had radiating-concave pedalboards (albeit probably BDO-standard rather than RCO or AGO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I only raised the question because I thought you once said the other one was your favourite of that tour. I did - but I've changed my mind! I loved the tracker action and Werkprinzip layout at the Dreifaltigkeitskirche, but the cathedral made for better listening. Yes, the curves on the pedalboards were definitely shallower than either RCO or AGO, so probably BDO as you say, but very manageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Personally, I would have thought a traditional solo division with enclosed flutes, strings + celeste, an orchestral oboe and clarinet plus tuba would be more useful for improvisation, rather than the solo organ specified, which is 80% loud reeds so is very limited for any improvisations less than ffff on the richter scale. I guess a good tuba plus octave couplers could be used for those moments - it's not as if it's a huge church with poor acoustics, anyway. But then, I'm not the organist of this church with the money bags this time. I would have thought that the presence of the strings and the corno-d-b on the choir rather nullifies this line of reasoning as there would appear to be plenty of variety and softer voices within the overall scheme. It looks a good spec to me although I'd like to see a 4' clarion on the swell. The only stop I would question, on paper, would be the posaune on the choir, given the presence of both great and solo reeds this seems a trifle unnecessary, and something like the beautiful cor anglais at Hereford would offer more variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I would have thought that the presence of the strings and the corno-d-b on the choir rather nullifies this line of reasoning as there would appear to be plenty of variety and softer voices within the overall scheme. It looks a good spec to me although I'd like to see a 4' clarion on the swell. The only stop I would question, on paper, would be the posaune on the choir, given the presence of both great and solo reeds this seems a trifle unnecessary, and something like the beautiful cor anglais at Hereford would offer more variety. My point was that you could have all 4 manuals with a variety quieter effects (rather than 3), rather than 4 solo reeds on the solo. I could easily use this while improvising. I did wonder about the Choir Posaune but wonder whether it's there for Positive Anches functions in French Romantic repertoire. The Willis III at St Marys Southampton has a Choir Trompette (and similarly a lone Open Diapason as the only representation of the principal chorus on the choir) but it's difficult to say what their purpose is intended to be. Actually, the choir organ proposed here and St. Mary's Southampton (Willis III, 1950s) are really similar... in practice I found the Southampton choir organ was an interesting mixture of Choir organ and Solo organ... And it has NFortin's C-D-B and Cor Anglais as well! http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N11630 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I thought that about the Posaune too - especially with a Tuba and a Trompette on the Solo. Of course if the Choir is the second division rather than the third and the Posaune is a chorus reed (enabling a French Récit-Positif-GO type of build-up) it might be a different matter. Edit: Oops - didn't see Colin's post. I see he had the same thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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