Tournemire Orgue Mystique

[Nick Bennett]

Has anybody bought it? I got my copy on Monday. It's wonderful - though so far I have only heard the Christmas cycle - i.e the first three CD's. Only nine more CD's to go

 

Only £50 for the 12 CD set!

[Pierre Lauwers]

Has anybody bought it?  I got my copy on Monday.  It's wonderful - though so far I have only heard the Christmas cycle - i.e the first three CD's.  Only nine more CD's to go

 

Only £50 for the 12 CD set!

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I have it since some years.

What do you want to know?

St-Sernin might not be the best vehicle for this

music, tough.

 

Best Wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[pcnd5584]

I only know the Triple Choral - I have a recording of the piece played at Orléans Cathedral - it sounds magnificent on the old C-C, there.

 

I would have thought that the superb C-C at S. Sernin would be very suitable. True, it is not well-supplied with mutations, but apart from that it has a rich tonal palette, etherial quiet effects of great beauty and a tutti général with the most thrilling éclat.

[Pierre Lauwers]

Of course it has!

But St-Sernin is more about "Grandeur" than meditation, while Tournemire you may see like a kind of french Herbert Howells, in a more liturgical version.

There are people on the french forum who use his music near to every Sunday's masses.

 

My preffered player for Tournemire is the dutch Van der Ploeg:

 

http://www.tjeerdvanderploeg.nl/nl/index.html

 

And in this I agree with the "Tournemire's specialist" on the french forum.

Van der Ploeg uses later organs than ACC, Mutins. Not too big ones (no chamades, no 32' Bombardes) but with tons of delicacy, and this is more important by far in Tournemire's music.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[pcnd5584]

Well, certainly. But of course, one could also refrain from using the chamades and the 32p Bombarde! S. Sernin also has a wide range of flutes and strings - many quiet effects of great beauty and restfulness are still possible on this organ.

 

Have you also heard the older recordings by Adrian Gunning at Coventry Cathedral? I would be interested to know what you thought of the suitability of that organ.

[Pierre Lauwers]

Have you also heard the older recordings by Adrian Gunning at Coventry Cathedral? I would be interested to know what you thought of the suitability of that organ.

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No, I did not.

But I do have recordings with Howells (LPs) at Coventry and I find this organ

already too "neo-classic" for a composer like him.

Tournemire of course had mixtures and mutations, but of a post-romantic nature (Convers). Nothing in common with "full-blast" ones. I feel this is a bit like if

you played the Boellmann's "Prière à Notre Dame" with a Cromorne instead

of the Voix céleste; the very meaning of the music changes.

This said, I know of some british organs where I'd like to hear Tournemire,

but it's possible you'd be very surprised if I told which ones.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[MusingMuso]

while Tournemire you may see like a kind of french Herbert Howells, in a more liturgical version.

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=================

 

 

I have just suffered a mild fit and a small nose-bleed!

 

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

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I have just suffered a mild fit and a small nose-bleed!

 

MM

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Well, apologies if I said something that could be felt offensive.

 

Pierre

[MusingMuso]

Well, apologies if I said something that could be felt offensive.

 

================

 

 

Please don't apologise Pierre....it's just me.

 

I just feel that the Howells legacy has become the millstone of British organ and choral music.

 

Someone once asked me to play Howells at a recital, and I did. ....just the once.

I played it really badly, and someone hit the nail right on the head when they said afterwards, "It was as if you really hated the music."

 

With that wonderfully perceptive criticism, I have never repeated the ordeal since.

 

Now Tournemire is something else, even though I'm not really into French music, Cavaille-Coll organs, garlic or accordians....I love the inventive imagination and some of the unique musical devices he employed.

 

I'm afraid I naturally lean towards the sort of music where lifting the fingers is as important as putting them down, and in some sort of contrapuntal order....Bach, Reger, Hindemith, Czech contemporary music....that sort of thing.

 

I'm a lost cause....ignore me!

 

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

Well, maybe it is a sin to make links between things that seem to be different;

of course Howells, Tournemire and Reger are different, no doubt.

What they share is a style we call "post-romantic" in french, and a mood: meditative

music for big churches or cathedrals, deep-minded compositions perfectly suited

to gothic or neo-gothic atmospheres.

They are the trilogy of my preffered late-romantic composers, whose best suited

for organs were -and sometimes still are- systematically dismissed, and destroyed

wherever-whenever possible.

Maybe one day we shall need an organ style designed to suit the three.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[PF Baron]

I cannot remember where I got this english joke :

 

Question : What is the definition of a gentleman ?

 

Answer : "An organist fit enough to play Tournemire, but who does not dare to do it !"

 

 

Let's be serious now : the very best record I know containing some works by Tournemire is Triton ref. TRI331137, played by François Lemanissier on the organ in Notre Dame / Saint Lô (Beuchet + Kern). There are also works by André Fleury

 

This record is totally marvelous, and leaves everything else I know about Tournemire far behind. I do not know wether or not it is easy to find in the UK

 

Best regards

 

PF Baron

[Nick Bennett]

At the IAO congress in Paris in 2002, Madame Langlais observed that Tournemire's music is played more in Britain than in France. Is this true? I can't recall hearing much, if any, performed live.

[pcnd5584]

I have to confess that I do not know much Tournemire. I do know the organ in S. Lô, though - I played it once, a few years ago. In addition to being an excellent instrument, the church has superb acoustics. I remeber thinking that the reverberation period following a chord on the tutti appeared to last for approximately eight seconds. This would certainly give added mystery to most works.

[MusingMuso]

Well, maybe it is a sin to make links between things that seem to be different;

of course Howells, Tournemire and Reger are different, no doubt.

What they share is a style we call "post-romantic" in french, and a mood: meditative

music for big churches or cathedrals, deep-minded compositions perfectly suited

to gothic or neo-gothic atmospheres.

They are the trilogy of my preffered late-romantic composers, whose best suited

for organs were -and sometimes still are- systematically dismissed, and destroyed

wherever-whenever possible.

Maybe one day we shall need an organ style designed to suit the three.

 

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=================

 

I once went to the fish museum at Hull....it's called "The Deep" I believe.

 

For some strange reason, I was reminded of Howells' music. It was relaxing watching all the fish swim up, down, round and round as well as side-to-side; quite unable to recall from whence they had come, and quite unable to decide where to go next.

 

Then a shark arrived, snatched a fish and departed.

 

"Aha! Reger!" I thought....don't ask me why.

 

 

MM

[pcnd5584]

Well, maybe it is a sin to make links between things that seem to be different;

of course Howells, Tournemire and Reger are different, no doubt.

What they share is a style we call "post-romantic" in french, and a mood: meditative

music for big churches or cathedrals, deep-minded compositions perfectly suited

to gothic or neo-gothic atmospheres.

They are the trilogy of my preffered late-romantic composers, whose best suited

for organs were -and sometimes still are- systematically dismissed, and destroyed

wherever-whenever possible.

Maybe one day we shall need an organ style designed to suit the three.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Now that is an instrument which I would wish to see - and play! Although, it occurs to me that we may have one - currently residing in St. Paul's Cathedral, London. In addition to a wealth of quiet flutes, strings and reeds, it has at least two contrasting diapason choruses and a variety of chorus reeds. No mini-bar, though.

[Pierre Lauwers]

I once went to the fish museum at Hull....it's called "The Deep" I believe.

 

For some strange reason, I was reminded of Howells' music. It was relaxing watching all the fish swim up, down, round and round as well as side-to-side; quite unable to recall from whence they had come, and quite unable to decide where to go next.

 

Then a shark arrived, snatched a fish and departed.

 

"Aha! Reger!" I thought....don't ask me why. dry.gif

(Quote)

 

This one deserves a 6 pack Duvel beer. Congratulations!

 

I should send Pcnd a second one. Yes, St-Paul is one of the british organs

I know that can suit Tournemire, Howells and Reger's needs about the

best to be be find today (from my point of view).

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[pcnd5584]

Well, thank you, M. Lauwers!

 

I think that it is a pity that the Cymbale on the fifth clavier was re-cast, though. If there is already a Fourniture IV (19, 22, 26, 29), I cannot really see the point of having a Mixture III (22, 26, 29) - particularly in that building.