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Bbc Proms 2008


Davidb
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Evening ladies + gents,

 

the proms were announced today. Here is a rundown of the amazing amounts of Organ music that will be featured.

 

Fri 18th July (Prom 1) - Dieu Parmi Nous from La Nativite (Wayne Marshall)

Mon 21st July (Prom 6) - L'Ascension, Saint-Seans Symphony 3 (Oliver Latry)

 

Sunday 3rd July (Prom 21) - Wayne Marshall

Demessieux Te Deum

Messiaen Verset pour la Fête de la Dédicace

Dupré Symphony for organ No.2

Naji Hakim Pange Lingua

Messiaen Prelude

 

 

Sunday 10th August (Prom 32)- James O'Donnell

Messe de la Pentecote

 

Sunday 17th August (Prom 42) - Jennifer Bate

 

La Nativite

Apparation d l'eglise Eternelle

 

Sunday 24th August (Prom 50) - Simon Preston

Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV565;

Canonic Variations on 'Vom Himmel Hoch' BWV769;

Prelude and Fugue in E flat major, ‘St Anne’, BWV 552;

Chorale Prelude on ‘Vater unser im Himmelreich’, BWV 682;

Chorale Prelude on ‘Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir’, BWV 687;

Duetto No.2 in F major, BWV 803

 

 

Highly Impressive i think

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Evening ladies + gents,

 

the proms were announced today. Here is a rundown of the amazing amounts of Organ music that will be featured.

 

Fri 18th July (Prom 1) - Dieu Parmi Nous from La Nativite (Wayne Marshall)

Mon 21st July (Prom 6) - L'Ascension, Saint-Seans Symphony 3 (Oliver Latry)

 

Sunday 3rd July (Prom 21) - Wayne Marshall

Demessieux Te Deum

Messiaen Verset pour la Fête de la Dédicace

Dupré Symphony for organ No.2

Naji Hakim Pange Lingua

Messiaen Prelude

Sunday 10th August (Prom 32)- James O'Donnell

Messe de la Pentecote

 

Sunday 17th August (Prom 42) - Jennifer Bate

 

La Nativite

Apparation d l'eglise Eternelle

 

Sunday 24th August (Prom 50) - Simon Preston

Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV565;

Canonic Variations on 'Vom Himmel Hoch' BWV769;

Prelude and Fugue in E flat major, ‘St Anne’, BWV 552;

Chorale Prelude on ‘Vater unser im Himmelreich’, BWV 682;

Chorale Prelude on ‘Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir’, BWV 687;

Duetto No.2 in F major, BWV 803

Highly Impressive i think

 

 

==================================

 

Organ music at the Proms is very welcome, and our kind hosts must be very pleased. However, I found myself getting slightly annoyed as I read through the list.

 

If the Proms do one thing, they introduce us to the familiar and the not so familiar; which is how it should be.

 

Not wanting to be political, but unable to avoid being so, do folk remember the outcry recently, when some ghastly woman suggested that the Proms were "elitist," and that they should appeal more to "ordinary people," whatever and whoever they are?

 

For me, I find this rather predictable list of "things you know but can't get enough of" terribly disappointing, as if the organ establishment have decided to present "Classics for Pleasure," as the only thing which would be aceptable to the great unwashed.

 

When we have had Czech music, American music, Tuvan throat singers andall sorts of odd-ball things thrown at us, so why can't the organ estabishment come up with something interesting, original and...well...exciting for a change.

 

Have we become so narrow minded, that we are in danger of reducing the organ repertoire to that of two composers, two Toccatas and one symphony?

 

It's just an insult to the intelligence of the Prom audiences, who are rather sophisticated on the whole.

 

I would also question whether the Royal Albert Hall full of Promers, is really the right place to have so much very religiously inspired music, which demands a certain special atmosphere.

 

What's wrong with playing to the gallery?

 

There are three to choose from, and enough music around to blow the socks off the audience.

 

"Disappointed of Yorkshire"

 

MM

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For me, I find this rather predictable list of "things you know but can't get enough of" terribly disappointing, as if the organ establishment have decided to present "Classics for Pleasure," as the only thing which would be aceptable to the great unwashed.

 

 

Yes, but I would suggest that probably most of what is being performed is known mainly to organists, and not to most of the average audience.

 

My only criticism - based purely on my own taste - is the large amount of Messiaen being performed.

 

After that last sentence I shall now put on my hard hat and duck for shelter! :)

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Not wanting to be political, but unable to avoid being so, do folk remember the outcry recently, when some ghastly woman suggested that the Proms were "elitist," and that they should appeal more to "ordinary people," whatever and whoever they are?

I missed that, but considering that the proms are about as "popularist" as classical music can get while still remaining serious, it seems a rather brainless comment.

 

It's just an insult to the intelligence of the Prom audiences, who are rather sophisticated on the whole.

Are they? Maybe. I confess I'm not sure what constitutes the typical Prom audience. Sophisticated or not, what they do seem to be is refreshingly open-minded about what types of music can bring them enjoyment. I suppose it amounts to the same thing.

 

I would also question whether the Royal Albert Hall full of Promers, is really the right place to have so much very religiously inspired music, which demands a certain special atmosphere.

I suspect a lot of us would identify with this view, but when I think of certain professional concert choirs who specialise in performing religious music in a way that, despite being immaculately and expressively crafted, still leaves one feeling that they are only there for the money...

 

Yes, but I would suggest that probably most of what is being performed is known mainly to organists, and not to most of the average audience.

 

My only criticism - based purely on my own taste - is the large amount of Messiaen being performed.

 

After that last sentence I shall now put on my hard hat and duck for shelter! :)

Bang! Crash! Wallop!

 

Well the Proms are celebrating the centenary of his birth, so this is inevitable. I would even suggest that this is precisely the reason we are getting as much organ music as we are this year. My main regret is that Auntie Beeb has not found room for Les corps glorieux.

 

I know there are box office considerations, but I do slightly regret that the organ has mostly been programmed in a way that will appeal to its devotees while being avoidable by everyone else (i.e. in stand-alone recitals or jointly with choral music). In a series as popularist as the Proms I would like to see the organ being programmed alongside mainstream orchestral works so that it will reach a wider audience - as hopefully will be the case with Oliver Latry's appearance. Now if only the Beeb had invited him to finish the programme with an improvisation. If his improvisations can "wow" us, what would they do to a Prom audience?!

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Even the most wholesome food if taken in excess can make you sick. And outside the liturgical context I am not all that fond of Messiaen's organ music - I certainly would not pay to attend a concert where it was the only music on offer. In fact even if attendance were free I would prefer to stay at home and read a book. This may be a wholly personal reaction but then again it may not be, and I rather suspect there are more people who hold this opinion than would be prepared to own up to doing so, at least on a site with a membership like this one.

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I sympathise a lot with Brian. Whilst I love Messiaen's earlier music and might even take some of it to my desert island, you could substitute many other contemporary composers' names and I would heartily agree. Yet every year I am impressed at the enthusiasm shown by Prommers for scores that I, personally, would not use for toilet paper. Their tastes really are as eclectic as you could wish and that alone is surely a cause for rejoicing.

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I suspect a lot of us would identify with this view, but when I think of certain professional concert choirs who specialise in performing religious music in a way that, despite being immaculately and expressively crafted, still leaves one feeling that they are only there for the money...

 

And what, pray, is wrong with that? B):)

 

Even the most wholesome food if taken in excess can make you sick. And outside the liturgical context I am not all that fond of Messiaen's organ music - I certainly would not pay to attend a concert where it was the only music on offer. In fact even if attendance were free I would prefer to stay at home and read a book. This may be a wholly personal reaction but then again it may not be, and I rather suspect there are more people who hold this opinion than would be prepared to own up to doing so, at least on a site with a membership like this one.

 

Thank you, Brian. I totally agree.

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I suspect a lot of us would identify with this view, but when I think of certain professional concert choirs who specialise in performing religious music in a way that, despite being immaculately and expressively crafted, still leaves one feeling that they are only there for the money...

And what, pray, is wrong with that? B):)

Tell me you're not serious?! :P

 

Leaving any questions of so-called authenticity aside, surely the aim of any performance is to open a window into the heart of the music, i.,e. what it's really about? For me, at any rate, any meaningful performance of religious music needs to illuminate the ineffable, the divine. As far as I am concerned the fundamental purpose of religious music is to lift the listener to a higher spiritual plane - a dimension that cannot be expressed in words. If a performance of religious music fails to convey a sense of spirituality and worship, it fails at the first hurdle.

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==================================

 

Not wanting to be political, but unable to avoid being so, do folk remember the outcry recently, when some ghastly woman suggested that the Proms were "elitist," and that they should appeal more to "ordinary people," whatever and whoever they are?

 

Yes, the comments came from the Culture Secretary, Margaret Hodge.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7276684.stm

 

Graham

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And what, pray, is wrong with that? B):)

Tell me you're not serious?! :P

 

Leaving any questions of so-called authenticity aside, surely the aim of any performance is to open a window into the heart of the music, i.,e. what it's really about? For me, at any rate, any meaningful performance of religious music needs to illuminate the ineffable, the divine. As far as I am concerned the fundamental purpose of religious music is to lift the listener to a higher spiritual plane - a dimension that cannot be expressed in words. If a performance of religious music fails to convey a sense of spirituality and worship, it fails at the first hurdle.

 

 

==============================

 

 

I don't know why, but I just saw this absurd vision in my mind's eye, of a Russian choir singing Rachmaninov while an Orthodox cleric celebrated Mass at the Albert Hall before a bemused (and coughing) audience.

 

As the stage-hand sweeping the stage said to Somerset Maughan as he sat in a director's chair, "Another winner there...."

 

MM

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Even the most wholesome food if taken in excess can make you sick. And outside the liturgical context I am not all that fond of Messiaen's organ music - I certainly would not pay to attend a concert where it was the only music on offer. In fact even if attendance were free I would prefer to stay at home and read a book. This may be a wholly personal reaction but then again it may not be, and I rather suspect there are more people who hold this opinion than would be prepared to own up to doing so, at least on a site with a membership like this one.

 

 

==============================

 

 

Publish and be damned!

 

I hate the lot of it, and I don't mind who knows. I think I would much prefer an evening of music by John Williams, with some of the audience holding little ET's and the rest wearing wizard costumes.

 

Turn me into a frog, I don't care.

 

:)

 

MM

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Guest Roffensis
Evening ladies + gents,

 

the proms were announced today. Here is a rundown of the amazing amounts of Organ music that will be featured.

 

Fri 18th July (Prom 1) - Dieu Parmi Nous from La Nativite (Wayne Marshall)

Mon 21st July (Prom 6) - L'Ascension, Saint-Seans Symphony 3 (Oliver Latry)

 

Sunday 3rd July (Prom 21) - Wayne Marshall

Demessieux Te Deum

Messiaen Verset pour la Fête de la Dédicace

Dupré Symphony for organ No.2

Naji Hakim Pange Lingua

Messiaen Prelude

Sunday 10th August (Prom 32)- James O'Donnell

Messe de la Pentecote

 

Sunday 17th August (Prom 42) - Jennifer Bate

 

La Nativite

Apparation d l'eglise Eternelle

 

Sunday 24th August (Prom 50) - Simon Preston

Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV565;

Canonic Variations on 'Vom Himmel Hoch' BWV769;

Prelude and Fugue in E flat major, ‘St Anne’, BWV 552;

Chorale Prelude on ‘Vater unser im Himmelreich’, BWV 682;

Chorale Prelude on ‘Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir’, BWV 687;

Duetto No.2 in F major, BWV 803

Highly Impressive i think

 

 

Just a shame about the organ!

 

R

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Even the most wholesome food if taken in excess can make you sick. And outside the liturgical context I am not all that fond of Messiaen's organ music - I certainly would not pay to attend a concert where it was the only music on offer. In fact even if attendance were free I would prefer to stay at home and read a book. This may be a wholly personal reaction but then again it may not be, and I rather suspect there are more people who hold this opinion than would be prepared to own up to doing so, at least on a site with a membership like this one.

 

gosh, and I thought I was the only person (philistine ?) in the country who cannot stand messian :) , apart from Apparation d l'eglise Eternelle which I have on a recording from Meinz Dom (the acoustic makes it sound ok)

regards

Peter

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gosh, and I thought I was the only person (philistine ?) in the country who cannot stand messian :D , apart from Apparation d l'eglise Eternelle which I have on a recording from Meinz Dom (the acoustic makes it sound ok)

regards

Peter

 

 

From some of the responses so far it is clear that you are far from the only person holding that particular opinion although I would not go so far as to say that I "cannot stand Messiaen" -merely that for me a small portion is usually adequate. In fact, I am not all that taken with all Bach recitals either, even on more "authentic" instruments than the RAH organ could ever claim to be. Given that that is the organ to be used one would ideally like to see programmes that utilise the available resources to the fullest possible extent. To do otherwise is surely a bit like hiring a full symphony orchestra in order to select from amongst its members a string octet.

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What a depressing thread this has turned into.

Yes. Let me liven it up a fraction (or, at least, try to)!

 

For anyone who, like me, has never heard the Demessieux "Te Deum" then this is worth a listen. The sound is taken from an LP recorded in the 1980s on the Cologne Cathedral crossing organ (Klais 1948). Sounds great!

 

 

Dave

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Yes. Let me liven it up a fraction (or, at least, try to)!

 

For anyone who, like me, has never heard the Demessieux "Te Deum" then this is worth a listen. The sound is taken from an LP recorded in the 1980s on the Cologne Cathedral crossing organ (Klais 1948). Sounds great!

 

 

Dave

 

Text moved to General Discussion: YouTube.

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Superb organ, but maybe not the first choice for the all-Bach programme!

 

 

==============================

 

It is indeed a superb organ of its type, just as Messaien's music is superb to those who enjoy it; which I do not.

 

It's when you consider the nature of the organ (a powerful brooding presence in the hall, even before the blowers are switched on), that there comes the realisation that any music played upon it needs to draw out the sheer power and kaleidoscopic colours of the instrument.

 

In fact, if ever there was a "Liszt" instrument, this is it; irrespective of historical niceties.

 

I can well imagine Simon Preston awing an audience with the Reubke, or the young Hungarian organist Kalosi Balint going to work with one of his explosive improvisations, or for that matter, Carlo Curley delivering a foundation rattling Bach Passacaglia in the style of Stokowski/Fox.

 

As for the Jongen "Erotica" or the Sinfonia for organ and orchestra.....pure magic, as would be the superb Pastorale by Duccasse: none of them essentially religious works, but real concert works.

 

I felt much the same about John Scott playing Buxtehude.....wrong organ, wrong place and wrong audience.

 

MM

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==============================

 

I felt much the same about John Scott playing Buxtehude.....wrong organ, wrong place and wrong audience.

 

MM

 

Yes, an evening of Bach organ works is only likely to attract the converted, whilst the mismatch between organ and works will repel them.

 

On the other hand I do rather fancy the evening of Stockhausen.

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Yes, an evening of Bach organ works is only likely to attract the converted, whilst the mismatch between organ and works will repel them.

 

On the other hand I do rather fancy the evening of Stockhausen.

 

 

=============================

 

 

It's a pity that Stockhausen didn't write an organ "Pedal Exercitium," because we could all have enjoyed treading in it.

 

MM

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