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Mixed Choirs


DaveHarries

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I can see that I am taking a thorough b(.......)g, which I didn't bargain on, from all sides here, and how it got deviated from services (as per my intial post) to concerts I dunno.

 

Interesting to note the bit re. copyright of recordings.

 

Dave

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I can see that I am taking a thorough b(.......)g, which I didn't bargain on, from all sides here, and how it got deviated from services (as per my intial post) to concerts I dunno.

There have been enough strong words on this forum about recording without permission, that you simply cannot be surprised at the reaction to your anouncement in that initial post that you were going to publish such a recording on YouTube without reference to the holders of the copyright in the performance (service or concert - doesn't matter). In fact you have been treated more gently than I expected when I first read it!

 

Paul

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Guest Patrick Coleman
Does anyone have a good way of dealing with bridal tardiness in a diplomatic manner?

 

David Harrison

 

At the practice I give them a timetable for the hour leading up to the wedding (ushers in place 45 minutes beforehand; groom/best man 30 minutes; all seated ten minutes beforehand when bridesmaids/mother &c arrive; bride to arrive five minutes beforehand; no more than those five minutes for photos). The wedding usually starts on time. I tell them if the bride is more than 20 minutes late I shall go home; and if she is deliberately late at all I will do the same. I remind them what bad manners it is to be late, and that I have other pastoral duties to carry out afterwards for which it would be ill-mannered on my part to plan to be late. If necessary I also remind them that there are others, including the organist, who will be delayed by any lateness. But I don't usually have to go that far, and they are always on time (town centre traffic permitting). I suppose the final resort would be to ask them to go and see what happens at the Register Office if they're late (but I've never yet had to say that).

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.... without reference to the holders of the copyright in the performance (service or concert - doesn't matter)......

Paul,

 

In reply:

 

1. If someone audio (or video) recorded a recital I was giving then, provided they didn't disturb me in the process, you could be 99.99% certain (and rightly) that I wouldn't care. I believe that concerts, like videos, are for the entertainment of one and all.

 

2. Whilst I could have asked permission, there were two problemt with trying to do so:

 

i) I did not know who was playing the organ on the day and could not have done.

 

ii) Even if I had found out, I do not know Graham Alsop personally. In the event, he introduced me to himself after the service and I commented on the superb music. Also I mentioned that I had recorded the anthem and the final piece and he said nothing that expressed his disapproval - and I did pass comment about putting the clips online. If he had expressed disapproval then the cliips would not have been put up.

 

Dave

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2. Whilst I could have asked permission, there were two problemt with trying to do so:

 

i) I did not know who was playing the organ on the day and could not have done.

 

ii) Even if I had found out, I do not know Graham Alsop personally. In the event, he introduced me to himself after the service and I commented on the superb music. Also I mentioned that I had recorded the anthem and the final piece and he said nothing that expressed his disapproval - and I did pass comment about putting the clips online. If he had expressed disapproval then the cliips would not have been put up.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

Permission has to be sought from all performers. If you cannot obtain it, for whatever reason, you cannot put the clips up. I don't know whether Graham is happy for the voluntary to be there - however, permission may be required from the Cathedral to make a recording of the organ. The anthem involves a conductor, organist, and professional singers, all of whose permission has to be obtained and all of whom would be quite justified in charging you a fee.

 

The Cathedral are aware of the presence of the clips and someone is likely to be in touch!

 

Paul Walton

(Assistant Organist, Bristol Cathedral)

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Does anyone have a good way of dealing with bridal tardiness in a diplomatic manner?

 

David Harrison

 

We have a mutual friend who simply stops playing after 10 minutes after the agreed time. Doesn't stop them arriving late, but makes them embarrased when they turn up in silence!

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Hi,

 

Has anyone here on this board been to services where the normal choir has combined with the choir of another church to sing the services? I only wonder because the Choral Evensong at Bristol Cathedral today, 22nd June, featured the choir of Bristol Cathedral and the choir of St. Mary Redcliffe, Bristol and the music for the service was this:

 

Dave

 

Back to the original post...

 

I played for a weekend of services at Lincoln Cathedral with the University of London Chamber Choir about 10 years ago. In the town the same weekend were the Leeds University Chamber Choir, with whom we had some relations (diff story!). Anyway, over a boozy pub lunch, they asked to join us for the last evensong as it was all music they knew, and we had an absollute ball. There were about 70 in total (took up a lot of space), and we did Leighton Responses, Dicing in D and Parry I was glad. It was a phenomenal noise and I had all on to be heard on the organ in the louder passages. A memory I won't (or the cong) forget in a long time.

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Back in the days of yore and real money (pounds, shillings and pence for the nippers amongst you :)) the choirs of King's, Cambridge and Eton College, being sister institutions, used to join together for a joint service annually - at least I think it was annually. Does this still happen? I remember going to one of these joint services - this was when DVW was still in charge at King's and, I think, David Hiley at Eton. Eton acquitted themselves very well indeed in such august company and didn't let the side down at all.

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Dear Paul

 

I'm sure you are right but that is categorically not what the chap at the MCPS-PRS said (which probably shows what a mess this whole area is). At that time it was certainly their view that You Tube was the publisher of all its content. I remember being told that if you post a clip on your own site the holder of the performance rights could come after you but if you put it on You Tube they would have to take it up with You tube.

 

Perhaps their stance/advice has changed now that they have established their General Entertainment On Demand licence (which is clearly designed to cover broadcasters such as You Tube).

 

If I have a moment later today I'll call them again to see what they say now.

 

J

 

 

The recording, but not the performance within it, of course.

I didn't realise this was actually formalised.

Not exactly. YouTube do not check incoming clips, because then they would be a publisher, and liable for any clip they missed. By not checking they are managing to keep common-carrier status, with no initial liability (like an ISP), but they will take down material immediately at the request of the copyright holder (though not if someone else simply tells them it shouldn't be there) - there is no "argument" with them as they will simply do what they are told with appropriate authority. And of course you do have an argument with the contributor, being the one who published the material inappropriately.

 

Paul

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My comments on YouTube's publisher status were based on an American commentary on their defence when sued, relating directly to their responsibilities (or not) defined under the American digital rights legislation (can't recall the name this instant).

 

Paul

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An update on this one: you will all be, no doubt, delighted to know that the clips have gone. This comes after one of the cathedral Cannons had a brief word with me when I went to Choral Evensong at Bristol Cathedral on Sunday 29th.

 

His attitude towards me was a calm one and he wasn't angry about it. Which is more than can be said for the members of this forum who replied to my original post on this thread. I hope you are all happy.

 

D.

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Guest Cynic
An update on this one: you will all be, no doubt, delighted to know that the clips have gone. This comes after one of the cathedral Cannons had a brief word with me when I went to Choral Evensong at Bristol Cathedral on Sunday 29th.

 

His attitude towards me was a calm one and he wasn't angry about it. Which is more than can be said for the members of this forum who replied to my original post on this thread. I hope you are all happy.

 

D.

 

 

Sorry if anything I wrote gave offence. You asked us a question and we answered it - I think quite a few felt strongly because they have been 'victims' in this area. The folks at Bristol Cathedral (certainly the current team) are both superb musicians and decent folks, so I expected you would not be in too much of a firing line, and I'm confident that nobody (here or in Bristol) thought you had intentionally given offence. It's a principle thing, really.

 

Viewed dispassionately and without any experience in this area, I can quite see that with an enjoyable clip, you might well think how could it possibly do anyone anything but good?...but you see, by the same token, someone could have posted glaring slips, an unsatisfactory moment or given a misleading impression. Private videos are potentially dangerous when presented to the wider public.

 

Mind you, thoughts of a performer's rights do not (frequently) occur to people. A case of mine - an LP recording I made (and underwrote) many years ago now has been cherry-picked and reissued on CD by the company who made it. Have they asked me, have they given me a token fee, have they given me a single copy of the resulting CD, have they even notified me that it exists? Have they 'beep'?! in addition, on at least one website, pieces I know I recorded have been credited to another player on said CD......

 

 

Caution: further diversion from the topic!

Again, years ago, the then editor of a (well-known)magazine came up after a recital and asked if he could take my picture. Normally I refuse in such situations, but he being an illustrious and highly-placed gent I thought how could I refuse? Not just the fact that I weighed over 21 stone and was bursting out of my (cheap) suit, I had just done battle with a seriously heavy tracker action for about an hour. You can guess the rest! Though he hadn't said so, the photo was for publication and in that issue of the magazine I look like the heaviest (and hottest) barrage balloon on legs. If he'd said my photo would appear in the magazine, I would definitely have declined to pose for it. Frankly, what possible bearing could my looks have on my ability (or otherwise) to make music? I'm not sure who should be pitied most, my fat self or the poor readers of the magazine! Whichever, it should not have happened because permission to publish was not given.

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Guest Cynic
snip

 

Don't worry - nothing you wrote gave offence.

 

snip

 

 

Please may I not only quote you in future, but request that this text should appear upon my tombstone?

It's the second nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. Want to know the first?

 

I was sitting in my works van outside the automatic gates at Gloucester Cathedral some years ago. The gates stubbornly refused to open as expected, following which the little man came out of his little cabin and pronounced

'You're not heavy enough.'

 

I thought, what a nice man!

 

P.

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Please may I not only quote you in future, but request that this text should appear upon my tombstone?

It's the second nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. Want to know the first?

 

I was sitting in my works van outside the automatic gates at Gloucester Cathedral some years ago. The gates stubbornly refused to open as expected, following which the little man came out of his little cabin and pronounced

'You're not heavy enough.'

 

I thought, what a nice man!

 

P.

 

I can only assume, Paul, it was before you found the excellent "Chez Montanna" at a nearby seaside resort.

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