Contra Fagotto At 8' ?

[davidh]

I have been surprised to find several instruments with a contra fagotto stop at 8' as I had always assumed that "contra" was an octave below the usual pitch, and therefore the term applied to 16 and 32 foot stops. Is there an explanation for this other than just the whim of an (unnamed) organ builder?

[gazman]

Whim or ignorance? It would be a Fagotto at 8'. (Or, perhaps more likely, a plain Oboe!)

[davidh]

Whim or ignorance? It would be a Fagotto at 8'. (Or, perhaps more likely, a plain Oboe!)

Well, I suspect either myself or the builder of ignorance (could be both,of course) , which is why I didn't name him.

[Vox Humana]

Im sure it's not you, David. In the orchestral world a bassoon is a fagotto and a double bassoon a contra fagotto. The same should obtain for the organ stops - 8' Fagotto, 16' Contra Fagotto.

[gazman]

No - it's not you, David! You are quite correct in your understanding of the use of the term contra. Basically, Contra means the stop is sounding an octave lower than you would normally expect it.

[gazman]

The only reasonable explanation of which I could think (apart from the organ builder's ignorance) is that it is an 8' extension of a Contra Fagotto 16' and the builder is trying to be honest by declaring extensions. Even so, it would be better to have the stop name given as "Fagotto (ext) 8'" or something similar.

[Colin Harvey]

Maybe it's a WerkPrinzip organ and the fagotto is on a 4 foot division (as many WerkPrinzip swell organs are) so it is correctly labeled "Contra Fagotto" to denote it as an octave below the pitch centre of that division. Maybe there is also a 4' trumpet to accompany the 8' Contra Fagotto (but no 8' trumpet, obviously)

[gazman]

[contrabordun]

At what pitch would a Ception normally sound?

[pcnd5584]

*Collective pregnant pause....*

[Colin Harvey]

I'm not sure. I don't think this was a stop Cecil Clutton ever (had need to) used. Certainly never used a contra or double ception.