Colin Harvey Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle4986480.ece Fair, I think... i like "camp vulgarity" while acknowledging his outrageous virtuosity and admirable chutzpah... 3* is hedging bets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle4986480.ece Fair, I think... i like "camp vulgarity" while acknowledging his outrageous virtuosity and admirable chutzpah... 3* is hedging bets... For reasons unknown he decided not to perform this at RAH, he played a transcription of Shostakovich's Festival Overture followed by 'Nun komm der heiden Heiland' (BWV 659). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyorgan Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Did anyone see the less than complementary review of his CD in the Christmas BBC Music Magazine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Treloar Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Guilmant - I heard there was one, but being mean I haven't bought a copy, can you give a brief resume please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyorgan Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Guilmant - I heard there was one, but being mean I haven't bought a copy, can you give a brief resume please. Most of the the quote, first: '...his showmanship is reminiscent of those organists nearly a century ago who saw themslves primarily as entertainers, transcribing all manner of music fundamentally unsuited to the instrument. Like them Carpenter actually reinforces the old stereotypes about the organ as the vehicle for mechanical rather than subtle music-making. Except, his instrument is a virtual pipe organ which sounds blunt and brash. There's no denying his technique, especially the Fred Astaire like footwork he shows in the accompanying DVD in his transcription of Chopin's Revolutionary Etude. But after his barrage of fairground arrangements and remixes, not to mention a couple of cheesy original compositions, there's little consolation to be had in po-faced performances of Demessieux and Dupre, which many organists play with more musicianly flair'. Personally, I thought it a little unfair, and contained very little description of the music itself and I wasn't sure whether there was an axe to grind. Certainly I didn't think it was all that helpful before his UK dates this summer. Having seen some of the youtube videos, I think we ought to be helping to get people along to his dates, even if we feel unsure ourselves, which I don't, I'm still a fan and remain to be convinced the other way when I've seen him live. I'm not sure whether the reviewer is himself an organist. Googling the name only reveals that he is a critic for the Sunday Telegraph, or an acoustic pop guitarist, one would hope that the BBC haven't stooped to those sort of people to review organ cds!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Treloar Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Thank you for that, Guilmant. I agree with your personal opinion. Having bought the CD myself, and enjoyed it, I think one should treat him as a one off and approach his playing from a different angle than one would with other organists. It's like comparing theatre or cinema concerts with organ recitals as we are used to them. I'm certainly looking forward to hearing him pay later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roffensis Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 This could be applied to the entire programme. I can think of no other solo instrument in which it is seen as a positive aspect to play this type of programme in order (presumably) to 'appeal' to the masses. If you like this sort of thing and wish to go, then I hope that you have a great evening. Personally, I think I shall stay at home and listen to some 'real' organ music - wild horses would not drag me to this sort of thing. Me neither. Urgh. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarmonicsV Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Most of the the quote, first:'...his showmanship is reminiscent of those organists nearly a century ago who saw themslves primarily as entertainers, transcribing all manner of music fundamentally unsuited to the instrument. Like them Carpenter actually reinforces the old stereotypes about the organ as the vehicle for mechanical rather than subtle music-making. Except, his instrument is a virtual pipe organ which sounds blunt and brash. There's no denying his technique, especially the Fred Astaire like footwork he shows in the accompanying DVD in his transcription of Chopin's Revolutionary Etude. But after his barrage of fairground arrangements and remixes, not to mention a couple of cheesy original compositions, there's little consolation to be had in po-faced performances of Demessieux and Dupre, which many organists play with more musicianly flair'. Personally, I thought it a little unfair, and contained very little description of the music itself and I wasn't sure whether there was an axe to grind. Certainly I didn't think it was all that helpful before his UK dates this summer. Having seen some of the youtube videos, I think we ought to be helping to get people along to his dates, even if we feel unsure ourselves, which I don't, I'm still a fan and remain to be convinced the other way when I've seen him live. I'm not sure whether the reviewer is himself an organist. Googling the name only reveals that he is a critic for the Sunday Telegraph, or an acoustic pop guitarist, one would hope that the BBC haven't stooped to those sort of people to review organ cds!! I heard CC's recital at the RAH last year, as well as John Scott's the following evening. Each, in their own way, was superb. CC has, without doubt, the most dazzling technique I have ever seen. I took my youngest sister, who I've dragged along to many a dreary recital over the last thirty years. She loved it. As to musicianship, CC's improvisation on TV themes (which I was dreading) was the finest improvisation I've ever heard. What a change from the sub-Cochereau-esque offerings we get from august Frenchmen these days! I think part of what non-organists find off-putting about the instrument can be the organ's so-called 'supporters'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigel ALLCOAT Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I think part of what non-organists find off-putting about the instrument can be the organ's so-called 'supporters'... In my experience (now embracing two centuries and straddling a millennium), is that these supporters (certainly in the UK) provide the best after-concert parties - St Peter's Street, N1 being the most renowned and sort-after invitation in the Capital. I find this positively on-putting. I'll have nothing said against them. Now, as for the fanatical supporters of the Zither ..... well, that's another matter. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarmonicsV Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my experience (now embracing two centuries and straddling a millennium), is that these supporters (certainly in the UK) provide the best after-concert parties - St Peter's Street, N1 being the most renowned and sort-after invitation in the Capital. I find this positively on-putting. I'll have nothing said against them.Now, as for the fanatical supporters of the Zither ..... well, that's another matter. Nigel Without a doubt - what could be more genuinely supportive than a party? I was referring to a certain frosty snobbery exhibited by 'so-called supporters'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidb Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 To really put our instrument where it belongs in this country, we need an English Cameron Carpenter. I think the chances of finding someone like this, who can connect to the masses through the classical-crossover market are quite low unfortunately. It doesn't matter what anyone personally thinks of him. He brings more people into the organ, and takes it out of its liturgical chains. This can surely only be celebrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roffensis Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 To really put our instrument where it belongs in this country, we need an English Cameron Carpenter. I think the chances of finding someone like this, who can connect to the masses through the classical-crossover market are quite low unfortunately. It doesn't matter what anyone personally thinks of him. He brings more people into the organ, and takes it out of its liturgical chains. This can surely only be celebrated? Liturgical chains? Of course Blackpool Tower has none of those. There is Organ Music and music that is played on the Organ. What is actually music, and what one percieves to be music are also two very different things. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidb Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Liturgical chains? Of course Blackpool Tower has none of those. There is Organ Music and music that is played on the Organ. What is actually music, and what one percieves to be music are also two very different things. R Sorry, i should have said i was talking about what we would refer to as 'pipe organ' music, as opposed to the light entertainment provided by theatre organs. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roffensis Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Sorry, i should have said i was talking about what we would refer to as 'pipe organ' music, as opposed to the light entertainment provided by theatre organs. db No worries, even if it is hard at times to affirm which category which Organist fits into!! R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyorgan Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Forum members may be interested to know that CC has cancelled his UK tour for this summer. His new (vastly improved) website gives no apology or specific reason, though its does state that the month of August is being used to record an all-Bach CD. The website does collate a few YouTube videos and is much more informative, to the extent that he now includes on his press page, reviews from 'dissenters', a selection of publicly available criticisms of his musicianship from paper and internet reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Forum members may be interested to know that CC has cancelled his UK tour for this summer. His new (vastly improved) website gives no apology or specific reason, though its does state that the month of August is being used to record an all-Bach CD. The website does collate a few YouTube videos and is much more informative, to the extent that he now includes on his press page, reviews from 'dissenters', a selection of publicly available criticisms of his musicianship from paper and internet reviews. The reason is known to a few, and was discussed on another forum back in April. The consensus was that Mr Carpenter has done himself no favours, and it could be argued that he/his agent has scuppered the chance of a future visit here again. As one distinguished Dorset correspondent said about the cancellation of his UK tour, "This is, of course, to the great disappointment, distress and inconvenience of those involved in its organisation. Mr Carpenter was to have played in five English cathedrals and six other venues. His and his agent's decision to cancel the entire tour seems quite extraordinary, but apparently a US recording was considered important enough to justify such a course of action. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Carr Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 ...and it could be argued that he/his agent has scuppered the chance of a future visit here again.... Although it's being advertised that he's at Bridgewater Hall, Manchester next May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan taylor Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Sorry, i should have said i was talking about what we would refer to as 'pipe organ' music, as opposed to the light entertainment provided by theatre organs. db The Blackpool Tower has a pipe organ. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombarde32 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 The Blackpool Tower has a pipe organ. Alan Albeit considerably electronically amplified........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Willis Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (alan taylor @ Jul 2 2009, 01:31 PM) * The Blackpool Tower has a pipe organ. Alan Albeit considerably electronically amplified........ Is It? Why? DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Richell Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 To really put our instrument where it belongs in this country, we need an English Cameron Carpenter. I think the chances of finding someone like this, who can connect to the masses through the classical-crossover market are quite low unfortunately. It doesn't matter what anyone personally thinks of him. He brings more people into the organ, and takes it out of its liturgical chains. This can surely only be celebrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Richell Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 What a shame Carlo Curley is not English, because that would solve the problem ! Colin Richell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombarde32 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 To Answer DW's question........ The organ has been amplified for many years so that it can be heard adequately when the ballroom is full. THAT'S why!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Richell Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 That is very disappointing to hear that the Tower organ is amplified, surely that is cheating ? Does this happen in large churches and cathedrals to pipe organs. ? Thanks Alan for your confirmation.and contribution. Colin Richell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Dutfield Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 That is very disappointing to hear that the Tower organ is amplified, surely that is cheating ? Does this happen in large churches and cathedrals to pipe organs. ? Well there was part of the old Bath Abbey job that was slightly amplified - I think it was the pedal upperwork. The reason the Tower organ needs to be amplified is that it's not really powerful enough to lead dancing (its primary function) when the ballroom is full. Not only do all the bodies soak up the sound, but the dancers' feet can actually make quite a bit of noise on the floor, and then you have to factor in the chat - the last two don't generally apply to churches. When the 'new' prgan was designed by Reginald Dixon in 1934 he really wanted 16 pipe units, but the chambers were too small and only 13 would fit. In the '50s, by swapping some ranks between chests, space was made for a 14th unit (Tuba Mirabillis) to be added, but that really is the limit. What IS disappointing is that at quiet times, when the ballroom isn't that busy, they often leave the amplification on at its full level. Having had the pleasure of playing the organ un-amplified in the empty ballroom, I think it would be nice to hear it like that when the place is quiet. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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