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Pierre Lauwers

Baroque Organ Tone

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The reason why I say it would not be the same is the Positive Jeu de Tierce is because that collection of stops is designed to be more intense, more directional, not so loud, and not at all-enveloping. Here is the same organ with the Positive (as you suggest it might or should be). However, I find that such a sound needs a Fond d'orgue registration that acts as a vast harmonic canvas for this intense solo - the whole made even more intense by the drawing of the Tremblant. I actually am frightened by the beauty of this sound and wonder seriously if it should be posted.

Chant d'Amour

 

Here endeth the line of Sexquialtera/Jeu de Tierce posts from me. Honest!

 

Best wishes.

Nigel

Well I'm glad you didn't wonder about posting it for too long, Nigel. Truly exquisite. Please Sir, may we have some more?

 

JC

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Another interesting organ - Olkusz, Poland.

The instrument was built by Hans Hummel and Georg Nitrowski between 1611 and 1634.

 

 

oklusz_andrzeja.jpg

 

 

 

Rückpositiv

C,D,E,F,G,A,B-g'',a''

 

Quintadena 8' [1611/1634]

Principal 4' [1611/1634]

Rohrflöite 4' [1611/1634]

Octava 2' [1611/1634]

Rohrflöite 2' [1611/1634, soldered caps]

Quinta 1 1/2' [1992]

Scharp 3fach [1992]

Cimbel ("Polish") 3fach [partly 1611/1634]

Krummhorn 8' [1992]

Zincken Discant 8' [1992]

 

Manual

C,D,E,F,G,A,B-g'',a''

 

Principal 8' [1611/1634]

Rohrflöite 8' [1611/1634, soldered caps]

Salicinal 8' [1611/1634, inverted conical pipes (!)]

Octava 4' [1611/1634]

Rohrflöite 4' [1611/1634, soldered caps]

Spitzflöite 4' [1611/1634]

Quinta 3' [1611/1634]

Super Octava 2' [1611/1634]

Spitzflöite 2' [1611/1634]

Mixtur 6fach [most pipes from 1611/1634]

Cimbel („Polish“) 5fach [most pipes from 1611/1634]

Trompeten 8' [1992, "Zungenblock" from 1611/1634]

 

Cymbelstern [1611/1634]

 

Pedal

C,D,E,F,G,A,B-d',e' (!)

 

Principal Bass 16' [1611/1634]

Octava 8' [1611/1634]

Rohrflöite 8' [1611/1634, soldered caps]

Quinta 6' [most pipes from 1611/1634]

Rohrflöite 4' [1611/1634, soldered caps]

Super Octava 2' [partly from 1611/1634]

Mixtur 6fach [1992]

Pomortt 16' [1992, "Zungenblock" from 1611/1634]

Cornet 2' [1992, en façade (!), "Zungenblock" from 1611/1634]

 

Tympan 16' [1611/1634, two open 16' pipes tuned to C and D]

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Some sound samples from the Lublin Tablature:

 

Preambulum:

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/music/preambulum.mp3

 

Carmen Magistri Pauli (RP Quintadena 8' + Rohrflöte 2'):

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/mu...istri.pauli.mp3

 

Con lacrime e sospir (HW Rohrflöte 8'):

http://paxel1677.republika.pl/forqueray/mu...me.e.sospir.mp3

 

Sincerely,

Krzysztof Urbaniak.

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"Here endeth the line of Sexquialtera/Jeu de Tierce posts from me. Honest!"

 

Please tell us where this exotic organ is to be found! Is the Chant d'Amour an improvisation? It sounds fabulous!

 

Greetings

 

Bazuin

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Guest Nigel ALLCOAT
"Here endeth the line of Sexquialtera/Jeu de Tierce posts from me. Honest!"

 

Please tell us where this exotic organ is to be found!

 

Greetings

 

Bazuin

 

Latitude = 49.0508, Longitude = 7.4262

 

Best wishes,

N

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Latitude = 49.0508, Longitude = 7.4262

What a useless reply, I thought. With a bit of effort one should be able to find the town, but it won't tell us if the piece is an improvisation or not.

 

Wrong!

 

Find the town, find the organ, find a CD by NA and all will be revealed.

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Latitude = 49.0508, Longitude = 7.4262

 

Sorry, but Google Earth sends me to some, supposedly mostly wet, spot south-west of the Isles of Scilly.

 

So, you're wirting under some nick, and your real name is captain Nemo? Fair's fair -- he's said to have been into organs as well as into the seven seas.

 

Or am I still using the Paris meridian?

 

Best,

Friedrich

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Guest Nigel ALLCOAT
....Should a tuning be needed, Bliesransbach isn't very far. But again...

 

Pierre

 

But surely only a Walcker ghost will arrive, Pierre?

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Guest Nigel ALLCOAT
Sorry, but Google Earth sends me to some, supposedly mostly wet, spot south-west of the Isles of Scilly.

 

So, you're wirting under some nick, and your real name is captain Nemo? Fair's fair -- he's said to have been into organs as well as into the seven seas.

 

Or am I still using the Paris meridian?

 

Best,

Friedrich

 

No snorkels necessary! Sorry you have been sent silly.

 

First Prize for the first correct answer goes to David Hitchin. Spot on! But I was perhaps expecting our member Poirot from Belgium to be hot on the trail and get there first.

 

N

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But surely only a Walcker ghost will arrive, Pierre?

 

.......With a deep understanding of the baroque organ, since E-F W. owed

absolutely all to the 18th century Masters. And ghosts often born again

from ashes ! :lol:

 

Pierre

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Now a short track which illustrates how "crazy" many

baroque organs are:

 

http://www.wagner-orgel-wusterhausen.de/hesse.mp3

 

This is somewhat "Devil's sound", isn't it ? The Tierce allows

much awkward color meltings. On such an organ (J. Wagner)

you can draw absolutely whatever stops you want, it works.

 

 

Another very interesting Video -I hope Mr Kropf won't be against it being linked to here-

is this Buxtehude at Neuenfelde:

 

 

Pierre

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Now a short track which illustrates how "crazy" many

baroque organs are:

 

http://www.wagner-orgel-wusterhausen.de/hesse.mp3

 

This is somewhat "Devil's sound", isn't it ? The Tierce allows

much awkward color meltings. On such an organ (J. Wagner)

you can draw absolutely whatever stops you want, it works.

 

 

Another very interesting Video -I hope Mr Kropf won't be against it being linked to here-

is this Buxtehude at Neuenfelde:

 

 

Pierre

It's okay, as Neuenfelde, i. e. my successor, cancelled the complete English section of their website, so overseas DVD orders will not be generated anymore... (Maybe they're sold out! :lol: )

 

The organ is well-known to many board members, including our host, who incidentally made an impressive appearance and appeal years ago, when the Airbus runway campaign started with a press conference within the church...

 

The organ is somehow crazy, yeah! There are noticeable influences of the restorations 1926/1938, pushing it into the "neo"baroque corner. and then there is the equal temperament... But the mysterium of Neuenfelde is the tight connection of building and instrument. This strong unity was never broken and can be felt until today. Shure, the church is not that large (280 seats) but with the curved ceiling which ideally projects the sound of the instrument, you get a "tonal shower" at every place you choose to sit at. Last week the Arp Schnitger Society met there to discuss organ restoration in general and in particular. I don't know the outcome, but whatever way to restore Neuenfelde will be chosen, the secret of Neuenfelde can't be destroyed.

 

If somebody wants to get the DVD, which features complete English menu, commentary track and subtitles, see more and try here. Its a non-profit thing to raise restoration funds, so I hope its OK to name that link here.

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Let us go on with these fine baroque organs, there are still many things

to be shared on the Internet.

 

Another important belgian baroque builder was Forceville, of french origin,

who lived and worked in Brussels (where he built the organ of the Cathedral)

and in Antwerp.

His style was a synthesis of french and flemish influences, plus a hint of northern

(brabanter) touch.

 

The organ here is in the Onze lieve Vrouw Kerk in Broechem (BE). It was enlarged

in 1830, but retained its character since the old pipework was kept, so nothing like

a "violent" rebuild that could have happened 50 years later.

 

Here is how the Principal chorus -with the mandatory Sesquialtera- sounds:

 

http://www.zilverenorgel.be/2-hoor%20het%2...20Track%201.wma

 

(wma file)

 

The page, with two recordings more:

 

http://www.zilverenorgel.be/2-hoor%20het%20orgel.htm

 

You can read the specification under "Beschrijving".

 

Pierre

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A fine historical document, Colin, of Walcha's interpretation

we are many to like very much -myself included!-.

 

Now we need the same with these 16' Sesquialteras, a slower tempo

and more breath between the notes.

Not to "criticize" at all, just to try something else according to what

we learnt in the last 30 years.

Has anybody ever played Bach on a Joachim Wagner organ ?

 

Pierre

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Has anybody ever played Bach on a Joachim Wagner organ ?

 

Pierre

 

Yes, I had the good fortune to hear & play at Brandenburg Dom and Wusterhausen a few years ago - a bright, virile sound, with memorable clarity in contrapuntal music. Both instruments benefit from a generous acoustic. Both have a Cornett 3fach on the Hauptwerk whose tierce ranks add tremendous drive to the ensemble. The effect is so convincing that I'm sure these stops were meant to be used, if desired, in the principal chorus.

 

The overall aesthetic struck me as a fascinating 'halfway house' between the North and Central German schools of organ building.

 

JS

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Yes, I had the good fortune to hear & play at Brandenburg Dom and Wusterhausen a few years ago - a bright, virile sound, with memorable clarity in contrapuntal music. Both instruments benefit from a generous acoustic. Both have a Cornett 3fach on the Hauptwerk whose tierce ranks add tremendous drive to the ensemble. The effect is so convincing that I'm sure these stops were meant to be used, if desired, in the principal chorus.

 

The overall aesthetic struck me as a fascinating 'halfway house' between the North and Central German schools of organ building.

 

JS

 

Well seen !

I visited myself Angermünde, and share your comments. Yes, the Cornet, and even

the jeu de Tierce on the second manual, can go in the Principal chorus.

These "french" elements -received from Silbermann- are acclimated there

to the german habits. Moreover, the "Scharff" countains the traditionnal

central german 4/5' tierce rank. The result: in Bach, these fantastic organs

sound like a baroque orchestra....A revelation it was. Should anyone want

to record some CDs on these instruments, I pay in advance for my copy.

 

Pierre

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Guest Nigel ALLCOAT
Well seen !

I visited myself Angermünde, and share your comments. Yes, the Cornet, and even

the jeu de Tierce on the second manual, can go in the Principal chorus.

These "french" elements -received from Silbermann- are acclimated there

to the german habits. Moreover, the "Scharff" countains the traditionnal

central german 4/5' tierce rank. The result: in Bach, these fantastic organs

sound like a baroque orchestra....A revelation it was. Should anyone want

to record some CDs on these instruments, I pay in advance for my copy.

 

Pierre

 

Organ Snippets from Angermünde. Then you can order what you like. The Bach G Major Prelude opening describes very well what you both talk about.

Best wishes,

N

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Guest Nigel ALLCOAT
Yes, Nigel,

 

These two Bach samples sound very, very to the point.

An explosion of colors, and it works in the polyphony...

 

Pierre

 

What I hope is becoming evident - well to me it is, and reinforces my simple thoughts on the matter of this thread - is that we are hearing and discussing greatly individual instruments. Each has its own personality and possesses an organ DNA that is the builder: scaling, voicing and thus a tonal conception that he thinks fit to suit the acoustic and position in the room. To a degree of course the musical usage and influences that emenate from others are intertwined with all those things. But I am always mindful of the fact that in past times builders and players had few opportunities to travel so very much and when they did they only had their own memories and 'sound banks' upon which to draw when returning home. Granted, some builders moved into different territories and took with them the fashions of those places and brought them to the ears and sight of the musicians in their adopted land. It is all an exciting prospect but one that must certainly have caused some ruffled feathers. It was most interesting to hear builders, players and consultants talking about the new French organ in England (St John's College, Oxford - Diocesan Advisers' Conference in September), and I imagined the same kinds of conversations through the centuries when a new style suddenly came on the scene and which didn't quite conform to the norm to which everyone had become accustomed.

This, to me is why the organ world is so colourful and utterly diverse - more so now because of travel. I heard two fine Parisian organists give a lunchtime concert in London this week on a totally different instrument to any they had played before and the train took 2 hours 15 mins from one station and culture to another. Then home in Paris for Dinner, after Lunch in the mediaeval Middle Temple Hall. And then thanks were transmitted from one country to another via a network in another continent and bounced off a space satellite. And then I can hear the sounds that are being displayed here and read other threads from totally dedicated people who support their way of organ sound, usage and building as if flying the flag as like a dedicated football team supporter. Bach would be dumbfounded - but hugely entertained?

Organs to me are like tastes. All countries have their special favourite foods, architecture, drinks, language and landscape. Travelers often prefer one place to another. Organists will always prefer one sound and builder to another and this glorious Board allows us to swap and enjoy each other's joys, disappointments, wrinkles, anecdotes, scholarship and humour. Am I being maudlin? No. I am just happy that The Cause flourishes and that we are free to be able to enjoy the riches that thankfully have been left to us when strong vibrant personalities laid the foundations all over the Western world some centuries ago. Thanks to those who funded such faith. Patronage is the one huge disappointment to me, because its lack in our present age does not allow the freedom that an artist desires and craves, I think. Have our circumstances changed radically from the time of those colourful and indigenous instruments of the Baroque?

Best wishes,

Nigel

 

** Slightly edited in the cold light of Saturday morning!

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What I hope is becoming evident - well to me it is, and reinforces my simple thoughts on the matter of this thread - is that we are hearing and discussing greatly individual instruments. Each has its own personality and possesses an organ DNA that is the builder: scaling, voicing and thus a tonal conception that he thinks fit to suit the acoustic and position in the room. To a degree of course the musical usage and influences that emenate from others are intertwined with all those things. But I am always mindful of the fact that in past times builders and players had few opportunities to travel so very much and when they did they only had their own memories and 'sound banks' upon which to draw when returning home. Granted, some builders moved into different territories and took with them the fashions of those places and brought them to the ears and sight of the musicians in their adopted land. It is all an exciting prospect but one that must certainly have caused some ruffled feathers. It was most interesting to hear builders, players and consultants talking about the new French organ in England and I imagined the same kinds of conversations through the centuries when a new style suddenly came on the scene and which didn't quite conform to the norm to which everyone had become accustomed.

This to me is why the organ world is so colourful and utterly diverse - more so now because of travel. I heard two fine Parisian organists give a lunchtime concert in London this week on a totally different instrument to any they had played before and the train took 2 hours 15 mins from one station and culture to another. Then Home for Dinner after Lunch in the mediaeval Middle Temple Hall. And then thanks were transmitted from one country to another via a network in another continent and bounced off a space satellite. And then I can hear the sounds that are being displayed here and read other threads from totally dedicated people who support their way of organ sound, usage and building as if flying the flag as like a dedicated football team supporter. Bach would be dumbfounded - but hugely entertained?

Organs to me are like tastes. All countries have their special favourite foods, architecture, drinks, language and landscape. Travellers often prefer one place to another. Organists will always prefer one sound and builder to another and this glorious Board allows us to swap and enjoy each other's joys, disappointments, wrinkles, anecdotes, scholarship and humour. Am I being maudlin? No. I am just happy that The Cause flourishes and that we are free to be able to enjoy the riches that thankfully have been left to us when strong vibrant personalities laid the foundations all over the Western world some centuries ago. Thaks to those who funded such faith. Patronage is the one huge disappointment to me because its lack in our present age does not allow the freedom that an artist desires and craves I think. Have our circumstances changed radically from those colourful and indigenous instruments of the Baroque?

Best wishes,

Nigel

 

An excellent post.

 

A friend asked me, recently, why I like the organ so much above any other instrument.

 

My reply: 'Variety'.

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