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Mander Organs

2 Manual 10 Stop Scheme


Colin Harvey

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Well, I showed my 10 stops design to Gerhard Walcker

to have an idea of the price.

Not only did I got a price -135.000 Euro- but this organ stands

now on the firm's catalogue.

He added a Gamba, while the Physharmonika will be playable

on both manuals and the Pedal.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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It is probably true to say that the Willis-type Salicional and Vox Angelica are more restful in prolonged use than the more reedy Gamba-style ranks often used. Personally, I think that there is a place for both.

 

Thomas Murray was once asked (by Geoffrey Morgan) what stops he would have on a practice-organ if it could only contain two ranks. He immediately replied "Awww, a Salicional and a Céleste!"  :P

 

In reply to Pierre's comment about a Céleste needing to be soft - the Unda Maris and Salicional on the (unenclosed) Positif Orgue at N.-D. are huge! (But still useful and beautiful in tone.)

 

I heard a similar story from Geoffrey about Tom Murray:

 

"what's the correct position for the swell shoe?"

 

<normal bafflement>

 

"Movang!"

 

The word "restful" is probably right with salis and vox angelicas - soporific is another word that could be applied. But they don't really work with other stops. They add nothing to Gambes or Claribel flutes. I think Henry Willis is to blame.

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It all depends upon the music which is played upon a stop; this may be compared with the temperaments.

Ancient music played with aequal temperament may sound less interesting than with a mean-tone one (for which it was indeed composed), while for modern music

it is just fine.

 

If you play Howells with a french Voix céleste, the result will be somewhat harsh, because the 19th century french music was not as loaded with chromaticism, for example.

The Vox angelica may reveals itself with "intense" music.

To have the two is indeed a good idea.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Here is the Physharmonika played at three different strenght levels:

 

The softest:

 

http://www.aeoline.de/Mp3/Physharmonica/Physharmonika01.mp3

 

Louder:

 

http://www.aeoline.de/Mp3/Physharmonica/Physharmonika02.mp3

 

The loudest:

 

http://www.aeoline.de/Mp3/Physharmonica/Physharmonika03.mp3

 

With 16-8-4 flues, as it will be in my 10-stops scheme.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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  • 1 month later...

Okay, I'll bite....

 

Great Organ

 

8' Open Diapason

8' Spitz Floete

4' Principal

2' Fifteenth

 

Swell to Great

 

Swell Organ

 

8' Viola d' Gamba

8' Rohr Floete

4' Gemshorn

16' Bass Clarinet

8' Cornopean

 

Tremolo

 

Pedal Organ

 

16' Bourdon

 

Great to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

 

4" w.p., both divisions enclosed separately.

 

Tubular-pneumatic action of course! (C:

 

- Nathan

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Manual I

 

Metalbourdon8

Kupferprincipal4

Flachflote2

Mixtur-II-1-1/3

Manual II to I

 

Manual-II

 

Gemshornprinzipal8

Celeste8-tc

Spitzflote4

Fugara2

Hautbois8

Tremulant

Manual I to II

 

Pedal

 

Gedecktbass16

Manual I to P

manual II to P

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I may be wrong, but I recall reading in a book about 'Father' Willis that he used to use an open wood stop which he called Violone in his small instruments. Can anybody confirm this, has anyone ever played one, and was it a viable alternative to the Bourdon? If I remember rightly the author seemed to think so - was he right?

 

Regards

 

John

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Guest Lee Blick

GREAT

8 Gemshorn

8 Stopped Diapason

4 Principal

8 Clarinet

Swell to Great

 

SWELL

8 Flute

8 Dulcianna

4 Geigen Principal

2 Piccolo

Octave

 

PEDAL

16 Violone

4 Choral Bass

Great to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

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GREAT

8  Gemshorn

8  Stopped Diapason

4  Principal

8  Clarinet

Swell to Great

 

SWELL

8 Flute

8 Dulcianna

4 Geigen Principal

2 Piccolo

Octave

 

PEDAL

16 Violone

4  Choral Bass

Great to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

 

Hmmm, perhaps just nomenclature about the 8 Gemshorn/ open Diapason?

 

the 4' on the pedal seems to be a strange luxury on an organ so small. A throwback to the neo-classical style where an organ wasn't complete without at 4 Choralbass or Schlamei (:()?

 

Otherwise, this looks like a good 'un to me. Be good for choirs and stuff.

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Hmmm, perhaps just nomenclature about the 8 Gemshorn/ open Diapason?

 

the 4' on the pedal seems to be a strange luxury on an organ so small. A throwback to the neo-classical style where an organ wasn't complete without at 4 Choralbass or Schlamei (:()?

 

Otherwise, this looks like a good 'un to me. Be good for choirs and stuff.

 

The pedal upperwork with a hole in the harmonic series existed in Bach's organs,

but it was usually 16-8-2.

An Open Diapason named Gemshorn? Well, there would be some Schnapps

instead of the Brandy in the pudding!

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Guest Lee Blick

I chose a Gemshorn instead of a Diapaon cos I didn't want something too heavy dominating the chorus.

 

If I am right, Manders used to have 16' + 4' pedal departments in their smaller organs.

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Exactly ..... something very neo-baroque from the 70s! 8' flute the basis of the Great Mixture chorus, etc....

 

You could, of course, have a moderate scaled and voiced Open Diapason which isn't too heavy and call it "Open Diapason" but each to his own.... Perhaps we could have a "Lee Blick Diapason"? [groan]

 

Re. Pedal 4': I thought that the "gap" in the harmonic series of the Bach organ was not to produce a "gappy" chorus but to provide a solo stop in the tenor or soprano in the pedals. Usually, those 4 & 2 "solo" stops are very sonorous and don't really form part of the plenum in the pedal division unless you're pulling out everything.

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"I thought that the "gap" in the harmonic series of the Bach organ was not to produce a "gappy" chorus but to provide a solo stop in the tenor or soprano in the pedals. Usually, those 4 & 2 "solo" stops are very sonorous and don't really form part of the plenum in the pedal division unless you're pulling out everything."

 

(Quote)

 

This is indeed exact and documented.

It is interesting to note this feature vanished in the course of Bach's life,

and Pedals like 16-16-16-8-8- (32)-16-(8) became customary.

The Pedal Cantus Firmus was going out of fashion...

 

As for the Open Diapason, there are of course many types between

the Diapason Phonon and a Green O.D!

I believe this is the very first stop to write in any design.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Hmmm.... I am not convinced by the GO - a clarinet in this size of instrument seems to me to be rather a luxury. The scheme below is similar (but not identical) to an organ which I played for several years as a teenager. It was surprisingly effective - and could give a reasonable account of much repertoire. The strings were very useful in service-playing. The GO Fifteenth was like a small mixture - it was the old GO Dulciana cut down. The Dulciana in its original form, I never used!

Somewhere I have a recording of the Dupré Prelude and Fugue, in B major, recorded on this organ. It works fine - it does not sound like St. Paul's or, for that matter, Nôtre-Dame, but it is reasonably effective.

 

PEDAL ORGAN

 

Violone (W) 16

Great to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

 

GREAT ORGAN

 

Open Diapason 8

Stopped Diapason 8

Principal 4

Fifteenth 2

Swell to Great

 

SWELL ORGAN

 

Wald Flute 8

Viola 8

Vox Angelica (AA) 8

Gemshorn 4

Hautboy 8

Tremulant

Sub Octave

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