cornetdeschats Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I actually don't like the Victorian reordering at Chch, at all. I've always wanted to move things around things a little, moving the organ to the smaller transept. I think one of the problems (besides loud voicing and the inexplicable swell reeds) is that against the west wall, absolutely everything can be heard, and there is no space for the sound to develop. I'm always obsessed by the pedalling of whoever is playing because every nuance can be heard, as if one were actually inside the instrument. If i, and the choir were under the crossing, I think the whole aural experience would be completely different. About cases and whatnot, I know a few very successful organs in quite large buildings (Chch size) that just have a Bourdon 16' and an Open Diapason 16' which is also stopped, but louder voiced. I've always found these totally suitable for congregations of a few hundred and a choir, a smooth woody trombone providing any extra meat required. What about a similar scheme at Chch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombarde32 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I actually don't like the Victorian reordering at Chch, at all. I've always wanted to move things around things a little, moving the organ to the smaller transept. I think one of the problems (besides loud voicing and the inexplicable swell reeds) is that against the west wall, absolutely everything can be heard, and there is no space for the sound to develop. I'm always obsessed by the pedalling of whoever is playing because every nuance can be heard, as if one were actually inside the instrument. If i, and the choir were under the crossing, I think the whole aural experience would be completely different. I'm afraid that if the (flue) voicing was toned down even a little the organ would be even more inaudible at the other end than it is now! Having attended the Christmas carol services when there was (according to the usher 1100 people attending) the organ only just got away with it as it was! It also has to be remembered that the building is to some extent a multi-functional building serving a diocese and a college. Unlike most Cathedrals there are many occasions when it is filled with hundreds of people. The organ does a pretty good job nearly all of the time. Last night we had the Murrill in E (with a couple of good blasts on the Bombarde) and I saw a new heaven (Bainton) with the Howells Ps.Prel. no. 1. The organ sounded exciting and was very skilfully played. It just needs some decent Sw. Reeds!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayer Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm afraid that if the (flue) voicing was toned down even a little the organ would be even more inaudible at the other end than it is now! Having attended the Christmas carol services when there was (according to the usher 1100 people attending) the organ only just got away with it as it was! It also has to be remembered that the building is to some extent a multi-functional building serving a diocese and a college. Unlike most Cathedrals there are many occasions when it is filled with hundreds of people. The organ does a pretty good job nearly all of the time. Last night we had the Murrill in E (with a couple of good blasts on the Bombarde) and I saw a new heaven (Bainton) with the Howells Ps.Prel. no. 1. The organ sounded exciting and was very skilfully played. It just needs some decent Sw. Reeds!! I once heard Simon Preston relate how, at the dedicatory Evensong, the service music included Psalm 78 (for the XV evening) and Elgar's Spirit of the Lord, much to the bewilderment of the Rieger contingent sat below in the stalls. JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I once heard Simon Preston relate how, at the dedicatory Evensong, the service music included Psalm 78 (for the XV evening) and Elgar's Spirit of the Lord, much to the bewilderment of the Rieger contingent sat below in the stalls. JS Did he also happen to relate with what stop the organist at the time used to smite the 'enemies in the hinder parts'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayer Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Did he also happen to relate with what stop the organist at the time used to smite the 'enemies in the hinder parts'? Also, no. Sir Herbert Brewer apparently managed it at Gloucester with a quick jab at the Pedal Ophicleide piston. I imagine many cathedral organists must be similarly attempted, especially if most of the clergy have nodded off by v.67. JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Also, no. Sir Herbert Brewer apparently managed it at Gloucester with a quick jab at the Pedal Ophicleide piston. I imagine many cathedral organists must be similarly attempted, especially if most of the clergy have nodded off by v.67. JS Indeed - in fact, apparently a quick double-jab, with the acoustic doing the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigel ALLCOAT Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Whilst still able to reply before removal and not wishing to be discourteous to the Cathedral and College, I would suggest that this gloriously evocative building needs numerous organs to cope with position and space. The Smith case needs a restoration instrument again and the proportions, returned. The same could be said for the case in King's College, Cambridge (proportion-wise. I say nothing here of the interior.) At Christ Church, if the Smith reamins in situ, the Transept needs to have something else (symphonic-ish, not overlarge) and elsewhere, something on the ground. As in past times, England enjoyed instruments all over the building near altars. One of the UK problems is that on a Restoration single case, there is no room for a Swell division circa 1880 for which everyone seems to crave. Furthermore the positioning of a Pedal division of any independent size. is a conundrum to drive any organ builder to produce an atomic warhead as an easier option (and with a little less fall-out, as a result). The times I have been in Christ Church (and I have taught on and off on it since 1987), I personally thought that the best solution was to have a new West positioned instrument (from start to finish) constructed taking full advantage of site, and proportions with all the interior created to welcome the departments. The Smith case and also a proper constructed inside, to be put in the Transept - South. But of course, those that must live with the building will most probably have far better ideas than me or any on here. For instruments, I look at the musical before the use because the latter frequently produces an instrument that does a little of everything and nothing particularly well no matter the eminence of builder. (I would love to see a survey of Organ Builders where they are asked whether they i) prefer working with a consultant or incumbant or ii) show what they can build best in a building. I say this, because a builder's work will last longer than anyone else). I say this too from a performing point of view not an accompanimental one. This perhaps is what has instigated this thread in the first place. I am not at all getting at or decrying that rôle of accompanist - a discipline in which I revel on an instrument designed for it - or not. But in this age of enormous costs, all projects need to be shot through with the greatest integrity that taste and scholarship allow. A lack of acoustic makes Symphonic inspired instruments rather lack-lustre and expression boxes are needed to diminish sound and thus enable blending of timbre. I imagine that most on this Board love to luxuriate in acoustic, and the organ and music from S S Wesley onwards has fueled this. A number of screens with modest organs get swept away as vistas needed opening up for liturgy. Where screens remained pedal departments became divorced from keyboards and became "rumbles off" behind choir stalls or nearer heaven, stacked coffin-like in Triforia. This change from more intimate areas to full-length buildings has provided innumerable problems as it seems one instrument unfortunately has to fill every nook and Gothic cranny from one situation. In some buildings with little acoustic and absorbent materials littering the building, large scaling and high cut-ups should stop a wonderful Principal chorus from dissipating when bodies fill the pews to create a minus acoustic. Wimborne Minster (when I used to play it in the last century) is a courageous essay in a projection for such surroundings. Christ Church also has its own similar difficulties. The added difficulty is that one instrument has to do literally everything; this as an Austrian exercise. But has anybody really remembered that at Christ Church before Reiger were on the scene we could surely have had the instrument to have set the UK benchmark? That the college/cathedral had to really buy two organs (because of the bankruptcy of the first company and the dismantling of the old sprawling one - Tewkesbury had the 32ft. Anything go anywhere else?), we must be thankful and moreover that they had the passion as well as the funds to even see through an organ project at all. Over and Out. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Morley Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Whilst still able to reply before removal...over and Out.Nigel Off topic; but may I add my sincere thanks to you, Nigel for your much-appreciated contributions to our discussions. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Echo Gamba Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Off topic; but may I add my sincere thanks to you, Nigel for your much-appreciated contributions to our discussions.P. Have I missed something? Why has Nigel gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Kemp Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 See postings under topic of Tewkesbury Abbey for further, if limited, details. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Echo Gamba Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 See postings under topic of Tewkesbury Abbey for further, if limited, details. Malcolm Thank you - I hadn't read that topic yet. I am sorry to see Nigel go. It is sad that so many "greats" of the organ world are no longer posting here (at least, not under their original identities!) I can understand people's reasons for leaving and/or changing identity - I am on my 4th incarnation myself! (Far from being a "Great" of the organ world - more a disconnected "Celestial" division! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombarde32 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I can understand people's reasons for leaving and/or changing identity - I am on my 4th incarnation myself! (Far from being a "Great" of the organ world - more a disconnected "Celestial" division! ) Yes, but at least thank heavens not completely silent like the one at the Abbey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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