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How Can You Tell When...

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... it is time to give up a parish post?

 

Does one generally listen to the heart or to the head?

 

Just curious...

 

Heart!

 

A

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Guest Cynic
... it is time to give up a parish post?

 

Does one generally listen to the heart or to the head?

 

Just curious...

 

Edited blank, see below.

I pressed the wrong button by mistake!

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Guest Cynic
... it is time to give up a parish post?

 

Does one generally listen to the heart or to the head?

 

Just curious...

 

I've never known, in my case it's been either a need to move away (for work reasons) or patience has snapped, once with back-seat drivers in the choir, mostly with useless (IMHO) clergy*.

One could do with more information here!

 

If your question is about needing to retire, I have seen successful arrangements where someone happy with one part of the job has gently handed over more arduous tasks to someone else. If it is a question of labouring on when you have become either a term of abuse or a piece of the furniture, sadly this happens quite a bit.

 

Having resigned from a post which I once enjoyed, I have sometimes found later that all I did was cut off my nose to spite my face. It has taught me nothing and taught them nothing! I have urged friends (at one time or another) to stick it out, because I know what a large gap will be left in their lives if they stop.

 

*If this is a question about clergy, I believe I have worked this one out. Having gone around for two years or so telling everyone that I have developed an allergy to clergy in general, this is actually not the case. I really like the clergy I am dealing with (in three churches) now. The actual case is, I can't stand 'Talkers' in general. 'Talkers' are essentially people who never actually 'do' anything. They go on and on, fond of their own voice, opinion and power but haven't much idea of what to do with any of them and have no concept of what co-workers require from them. Musicians are by definition 'Doers' - we would get nowhere if all we had were promises to practice, promises to recruit etc. Your typical career clergyman, like your typical government expert, has gone up the greasy pole quite fast, leaving little trace behind. Not particularly interested in people, he or she can handle the dressing up and pontificating - why spend time listening to ordinary people when you fancy you're able to have a one-to-one with God every day? Politicians are 'Talkers' par excellence.

 

If you feel it is time to move because your church has lost a 'Doer' and gained a 'Talker', you will not be the only member of that place who is considering looking for somewhere more pleasant.

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Guest Patrick Coleman
I've never known, in my case it's been either a need to move away (for work reasons) or patience has snapped, once with back-seat drivers in the choir, mostly with useless (IMHO) clergy*.

One could do with more information here!

 

If your question is about needing to retire, I have seen successful arrangements where someone happy with one part of the job has gently handed over more arduous tasks to someone else. If it is a question of labouring on when you have become either a term of abuse or a piece of the furniture, sadly this happens quite a bit.

 

Having resigned from a post which I once enjoyed, I have sometimes found later that all I did was cut off my nose to spite my face. It has taught me nothing and taught them nothing! I have urged friends (at one time or another) to stick it out, because I know what a large gap will be left in their lives if they stop.

 

*If this is a question about clergy, I believe I have worked this one out. Having gone around for two years or so telling everyone that I have developed an allergy to clergy in general, this is actually not the case. I really like the clergy I am dealing with (in three churches) now. The actual case is, I can't stand 'Talkers' in general. 'Talkers' are essentially people who never actually 'do' anything. They go on and on, fond of their own voice, opinion and power but haven't much idea of what to do with any of them and have no concept of what co-workers require from them. Musicians are by definition 'Doers' - we would get nowhere if all we had were promises to practice, promises to recruit etc. Your typical career clergyman, like your typical government expert, has gone up the greasy pole quite fast, leaving little trace behind. Not particularly interested in people, he or she can handle the dressing up and pontificating - why spend time listening to ordinary people when you fancy you're able to have a one-to-one with God every day? Politicians are 'Talkers' par excellence.

 

If you feel it is time to move because your church has lost a 'Doer' and gained a 'Talker', you will not be the only member of that place who is considering looking for somewhere more pleasant.

 

Paul has it in a nutshell.

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.........When the Parish Priest listens to the unpaid, uninformed and unmusical Liturgy group and ignores the Director of Music who has been in post for 15 years, and to whom the church pays a decent sum of money for his musical and liturgical experience.

 

THAT'S when it's time to sod off, and never to return.

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Guest Cynic
.........When the Parish Priest listens to the unpaid, uninformed and unmusical Liturgy group and ignores the Director of Music who has been in post for 15 years, and to whom the church pays a decent sum of money for his musical and liturgical experience.

 

THAT'S when it's time to sod off, and never to return.

 

 

You could look at this action as either evidence of dumbing down (a popular concept amongst some with few standards of their own) or an exercise in democracy.

Sadly, this is not a new thing and it seems to happen all the time. Someone recently gave up a (much-loved) post near here because he arrived to play for a service (having journeyed substantially and put other activities to one side to make time) only to be told that he was not needed and a scratch ensemble would play.

 

All the same, these things are probably unintentional; that is to say, God's local representative simply did not imagine that such an action or decision could have given you offence. Shows how good (or not) their powers of empathy are!! However, is it wise to judge others by your own standards? If you do, you are doomed to a life full of disappointment. Some people are pratts and honestly can't help it.

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It's time to bow out...when the choir start whistling along with your voluntaries. :blink:

 

H

Oh I don't know. At least it would prove that they have been listening. :lol:

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Guest Patrick Coleman
If you feel it is time to move because your church has lost a 'Doer' and gained a 'Talker', you will not be the only member of that place who is considering looking for somewhere more pleasant.

 

I feel bound to add that more than just occasionally clergy who are 'doers' find themselves in places full of 'talkers'!

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I played for my first Sunday service when I was 16 and took my first practice when I was 17. Since then I have gained a lot of experience in a number of different churches, aquired a lot of knowledge and practical experience both in music and liturgy and earned several highly regarded diplomas (including the RCO choir training diploma). Until three years ago I combined all this, as a church director of music. with being a full time civil servant. For the past three years I have been doing music only and I am now 61. Nothing unusual or particularly praiseworthy in any of that; I am sure there are many people in almost identical situations.

 

As I have written elsewhere on this Board, I get a rather better income and considerably greater pastoral satisfaction playing regularly for funerals at local churches and at the two crematoria which are within ten minutes walking distance of my house.

 

Why am I giving up church work at the end of May? Amongst other reasons -

synodical government at all levels, worship committees, poor pay and working conditions, uninformed, manipulative and totally selfish individuals holding a whole parish to ransom so that they can get their own way in everything, far too many laity constantly telling everyone else (including the Vicar) how to do their job, difficulty recruiting choir members, serious doubts of whether there is actually a future role for a choir in that place. Over the years I have enjoyed being a church musician and have put a lot of time, sweat and effort into it. I have worked with some wonderful people including some very musical, supportive and pastorally superb clergy and we have had some superb musical services. But I have had enough. Because of all the aggro and admin I no longer enjoy it and I honestly feel that at the present time my abilities and service are better employed playing for funerals.

 

Added to all that I have just taken delivery of a marvellous, custom built four manual console designed for use with the Haupwerk system (which by the way, promises to have Salisbury cathedral organ on offer for download by the end of this year). What more could I want for my increased leisure time?

 

See some of you tomorrow evening, I hope.

 

Malcolm

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I really don't mind clergy that are "talkers" - they provide support and diplomacy for the "doers" to get on with things.

 

I guess it's OK as long as the "talkers" don't work against the "doers"...

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But I have had enough. Because of all the aggro and admin I no longer enjoy it and I honestly feel that at the present time my abilities and service are better employed playing for funerals.

Was it a job that can be described as being of the ... er ... "dead end" variety? (Sorry!)

 

Dave

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Reminds me of an occasion many years ago when I encountered an undertaker from the farthest tip of Cornwall who was scared that he might be going bankrupt. He was complaining that business was dead. I had to agree that the situation did look grave.

 

Sorry. Just getting my coat.

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Reminds me of an occasion many years ago when I encountered an undertaker from the farthest tip of Cornwall who was scared that he might be going bankrupt. He was complaining that business was dead. I had to agree that the situation did look grave.

 

Sorry. Just getting my coat.

 

I met one who choked in a fit of coffin. He came from Gravesend.

 

R

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I met one who choked in a fit of coffin. He came from Gravesend.

 

R

Or as we used to say up north as a kid "It's not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in!"

 

Also picking up coat...

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Or as we used to say up north as a kid "It's not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in!"

 

Also picking up coat...

"Tomb" it may concern,

 

What have I started?? The standard of humour on this forum is obviously not to be sneezed at. Just remember, however, that if there is a strike at the local cemetery during the week of your funeral then the gravedigging may be done by a skeleton crew.

 

I am also reminded of the time that an organist went to the funeral of someone he knew well. He just couldn't console himself..... :blink:

 

*orders taxi*

 

Dave

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"Tomb" it may concern,

 

What have I started?? The standard of humour on this forum is obviously not to be sneezed at. Just remember, however, that if there is a strike at the local cemetery during the week of your funeral then the gravedigging may be done by a skeleton crew.

 

I am also reminded of the time that an organist went to the funeral of someone he knew well. He just couldn't console himself..... :rolleyes:

 

*orders taxi*

 

Dave

 

You know, I have played 'Crimond' so often for funerals it's beginning to pall...still, there's always a nice bier or lager to look forward to afterwards. Hearse a toast to all organists...

 

Coat on, scarf on, car keys in hand...

 

R.

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You know, I have played 'Crimond' so often for funerals it's beginning to pall...still, there's always a nice bier or lager to look forward to afterwards. Hearse a toast to all organists...

Go to work on an egg, come home on a bier.

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When the vicar says that "I stand in front of a painting for a while and admire it, but then I tire of it and move on"? i think we could start a separate thread on inappropriate ways to terminate someone's employment.

 

But then, that would start me on denominations that write in their magazines, and freely talk to the media, about the way that some workers are exploited but are oblivious to the working conditions they impose on their own musicians.

 

Time for me to move on, but not because I've added any corny jokes...

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