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hackej

Worcester Cathedral Transept Organ

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Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Adrian Lucas and his team on the superb new Quire Organ at Worcester. It was a truly brave decision to remove the oddity that was the previous instrument and it has paid dividends. Listening to the new CD back to back with the last recording of the old organ really shows the difference.

 

This has had me wondering if there has been any progress on the Transept Organ phase of the project?

 

Are there any details to share as of yet?

 

John

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Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Adrian Lucas and his team on the superb new Quire Organ at Worcester. It was a truly brave decision to remove the oddity that was the previous instrument and it has paid dividends. Listening to the new CD back to back with the last recording of the old organ really shows the difference.

 

This has had me wondering if there has been any progress on the Transept Organ phase of the project?

Good morning, John,

 

We've just broken up for the Summer so I'm just enjoying my first Sunday off for ages! Glad you enjoy the sound of the new organ - we are enjoying the instrument enormously in all sorts of repertoire as well as for accompanying.

 

After so many years of major fundraising for the Quire organ, the Cathedral has taken the wise decision to give everyone a chance to take a few deep breaths, allowing other departments within the cathedral to make progress with their own projects. We are still keeping our eyes open in the chance that we might yet stumble across a single donor with the cash needed to continue to part 2 - around another £750k including a vast amount of major logistical moving! If you know of anyone, do let me know!

 

As you might well imagine in the present financial climate, funds are not in great supply for anyone and, with the Olympics already leeching support for the arts, things don't look particularly bright for the next few years. Thank goodness we got the Tickell in when we did.

 

Keep supporting our recital series. George Castle (Sub Assistant here) plays next on August 1st followed by Barry Jordan (Magdeburg and Mander Board member) is here for the first Saturday in September. The year's season closes with David Briggs on Saturday 3rd October. Enjoy!

 

With best wishes,

 

Adrian

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I heard in passing whilst talking to a UK organ builder this morning that there are some electronic stops being added to the new organ. Please, please refute this to stop such extraordinary rumours.

Many thanks, Adrian.

 

Best wishes,

Nigel

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I heard in passing whilst talking to a UK organ builder this morning that there are some electronic stops being added to the new organ. Please, please refute this to stop such extraordinary rumours.

Many thanks, Adrian.

 

Best wishes,

Nigel

 

A useful start might be to recreate the 64 foot that the old Hope Jones had, I think I'm right in thinking that Liverpool Anglican Cathedral is now the only cathedral in the country to sport a 64 footer. In fact a friend of mine has a digital 64 foot (actually combined 64 and 128 foot frequency) stop on his extraordinary five manual toaster, appropriately called "Self Destruct" (the stop that is, not the toaster).

 

Maybe that would be the most appropriate addition for what remains of the old Hope Jones???

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A useful start might be to recreate the 64 foot that the old Hope Jones had, I think I'm right in thinking that Liverpool Anglican Cathedral is now the only cathedral in the country to sport a 64 footer. In fact a friend of mine has a digital 64 foot (actually combined 64 and 128 foot frequency) stop on his extraordinary five manual toaster, appropriately called "Self Destruct" (the stop that is, not the toaster).

 

Maybe that would be the most appropriate addition for what remains of the old Hope Jones???

 

Its not a cathedral I know,,,, But Hull city hall has an acoustic 64' too

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Guest Roffensis
A useful start might be to recreate the 64 foot that the old Hope Jones had, I think I'm right in thinking that Liverpool Anglican Cathedral is now the only cathedral in the country to sport a 64 footer. In fact a friend of mine has a digital 64 foot (actually combined 64 and 128 foot frequency) stop on his extraordinary five manual toaster, appropriately called "Self Destruct" (the stop that is, not the toaster).

 

Maybe that would be the most appropriate addition for what remains of the old Hope Jones???

 

 

Yes I have heard about "self destruct". I wonder what musical use this is. Plainly put, none whatever. A gimmick. :lol:

 

Even a 32' has a very limited use, they can be very annoying after a short time. <_< As to 64 foot flues, who needs them? What real purpose are they? Any more than a 32 foot flue on a manual? Who would bother to use it? What for? :lol: The resultants from a decent 16 foot manual flue etc would be quite enough anyway!!

 

I still maintain that the organ lost it's way in the Edwardian period, when many curiosities began to appear. Overlarge specifications, where a logically thought out scheme of carefully voiced ranks would suffice became more common, along with ridiculously huge consoles. The more stops the better, and "ooh, just look at all those stopknobs and buttons Maud". Yeah yeah yeah. "Ooh, it looks like a 747". Meanwhile 10 cases get scattered around everywhere from the chancel to the ladies loos, all childish and boring. What about music? Well So and so only asks for such a stop here, but stuff that, I'll yank the lot out and let everyone hear just how crass I am dear. Stuff the music, people want NOISE!!!Organs became so overblown that their true value as a musical instrument was rather lost. It is hardly surprising we had the 60s backbite of classical, and we needed it!, it halted much further bad taste forming.

 

Hope Jones did make some fine stops it is true, but his Diaphone was not one of them. An interesting curiosity from a historical perspective yes, but on a Cathedral organ, no. Whatever for?

 

Regarding Worcester, the new organ is a dramatic and well thought out improvement on the old organ. I never thought I would say this, but I think it to be true. I think the addition of electronic stops, if it is on the cards, will be a sad compromise. Church politics are not easy, and I would guess if this is the case, that it is so because of finance. I can understand that principle. In such a climate, I would simply wait.

 

I can recall one church in Liverpool with a very fine 4 manual Hill of 1907, silent, with a vile electronic doing service. That pipe organ will never get done now, because people say "oh, this is enough, it does us".

 

The slippery slope.

 

I wish Mr. Lucas every success to see through to its conclusion the vision he had. I also admire his staying power despite a lot of contrary comments at what was being done, my own included, to stick to his guns. I hope he uses those same reserves of determination and vision to get the organ totally how it should be. .

 

R

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Guest Cynic
Yes I have heard about "self destruct". I wonder what musical use this is. Plainly put, none whatever. A gimmick. :lol:

 

Even a 32' has a very limited use, they can be very annoying after a short time. <_< As to 64 foot flues, who needs them? What real purpose are they? Any more than a 32 foot flue on a manual? Who would bother to use it? What for? :lol: The resultants from a decent 16 foot manual flue etc would be quite enough anyway!!

 

snip

 

 

Absolutely.

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I heard in passing whilst talking to a UK organ builder this morning that there are some electronic stops being added to the new organ. Please, please refute this to stop such extraordinary rumours.

Many thanks, Adrian.

 

Best wishes,

Nigel

 

I have since learned after posting the above that electronically simulated sounds are now attached to the Tickell console and are in use.

I am desperately sorry that I might have alarmed readers to a fact that is now so obviously true.

N

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I have since learned after posting the above that electronically simulated sounds are now attached to the Tickell console and are in use.

I am desperately sorry that I might have alarmed readers to a fact that is now so obviously true.

Not quite as it may seem. We have long been able to connect Quire and Nave organs via MIDI and we are simply able to draw these stops from the Nave organ (having set it up ahead of times) by pulling out MIDI to PEDAL. This is nothing like installing electronic stops within the Tickell instrument.

 

I hope that may clarify the position and dampen such rumours!

 

Adrian

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Not quite as it may seem. We have long been able to connect Quire and Nave organs via MIDI and we are simply able to draw these stops from the Nave organ (having set it up ahead of times) by pulling out MIDI to PEDAL. This is nothing like installing electronic stops within the Tickell instrument.

 

I hope that may clarify the position and dampen such rumours!

 

Adrian

 

Many thanks for your reassurance that electronic sounds are not being joined to the new organ and being used at the same time as it is being played. I was certain that what I heard was all wrong as you have just bought a new complete organ!

 

But not having met a stop Midi to Pedal, I imagine it allows you to connect to a computer to store registrations as well as play your Nave organ remotely?

 

Thanks.

 

Best wishes,

Nigel

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It sounds wonderful. I assume it's for French music, or the Hollins Song of Sunshine?

 

 

Amazing how quickly a thread about Worcester Cathedral organ can escalate, one only has to think back to the original thread on its controversial construction (not having the time to flick back through 36 pages or so, can anyone remind me what exactly was so controversial? having played it for myself I can only add to the chorus of praise for Kenneth Tickell's outstanding creation.)

 

One of the things I love about the Mander Forums is the total randomness along which a thread can migrate too. Having read comments above about the relative uselessness of 32 foots, I would add my own opinion, which I'd be happy to have refuted or confirmed. That is, if money genuinely was no object and the brief was to build the largest organ possible that was still musical, what "luxuries" might I be tempted to add? For me I'd say a 32 foot flue on the Great and a 32 foot reed on the Swell.

 

Am I really being serious? I have now played two organs with such a specification (Lausanne Cathedral and Lake Avenue Pasadena) and whilst the number of instruments with a 32 foot Swell reed must be vanishingly small, there are times when it just adds something intangible but palpable to full Swell (that otherwise would be muddied by having a suboctave coupler and 16 foot reed) and ditto Great . On the other hand I have yet to find a use for a 64 foot on the pedals...

 

Finally, I can heartily recommend the 64 and 128 foot "self destruct" digital stop on the Hammerwood organ, of course it's absolutely over the top nonsense from any musical or harmonic point of view but is enormous fun nonetheless (so long as you promise to only use it for the last note of your encore)!

 

Contrabombarde

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That is, if money genuinely was no object and the brief was to build the largest organ possible that was still musical, what "luxuries" might I be tempted to add? For me I'd say a 32 foot flue on the Great and a 32 foot reed on the Swell.

 

Finally, I can heartily recommend the 64 and 128 foot "self destruct" digital stop on the Hammerwood organ, of course it's absolutely over the top nonsense from any musical or harmonic point of view but is enormous fun nonetheless (so long as you promise to only use it for the last note of your encore)!

 

Contrabombarde

 

I'm sure if Bach had had a 32' reed on the Swell and a 64' on the pedal he'd have used them - not!

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Midi to Pedal

A terrible timelag though, if one were playing at Mattins.

What I'm really interested in is what happens after you push it in - the Après Midi to Pedal experience.

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I'm sure if Bach had had a 32' reed on the Swell and a 64' on the pedal he'd have used them - not!

 

I'm not so sure....I heard somewhere that the great JSB knew a good 32' reed when he played one!

 

Contrabombarde

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I'm sure if Bach had had a 32' reed on the Swell and a 64' on the pedal he'd have used them - not!

 

I'm not so sure....I heard somewhere that the great JSB knew a good 32' reed when he played one!

 

Contrabombarde

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A terrible timelag though, if one were playing at Mattins.

What I'm really interested in is what happens after you push it in - the Après Midi to Pedal experience.

You can then play a transcription of Prelude de l'apres midi

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I'm not so sure....I heard somewhere that the great JSB knew a good 32' reed when he played one!

 

Contrabombarde

I've not heard that one. I think you may be conflating two separate reports here. Agricola, in criticising an anti-reed trend amongst organists, commented that Bach was a great friend of them. He also reported that Bach had praised the even and prompt speech of the 32' Prinzipal at St Catherine's, Hamburg, but had added that it was the only one of its type he had heard that was that good.

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