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Nothing New Under The Sun?


Guest Cynic

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I too would also miss your contributions, particularly the vast coverage of well known and forgotten bywaters of the repertoire that you are able to help fellow members with.

 

'Agree with this!

 

A

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Absolutely - this is a great message board for those that love the organ, its construction, its music, how to play better, the latest scores, CDs, new organs at home and abroad, concerts, Utubes etc..!

It's not appropriate to have over heated quarrels, gripes etc especially if there is even the remotest risk of embarrassing the generous hosts - who I am sure have enough to do to run their organ workshop without having to moderate these threads.

 

And yes - Cynic please sleep on it - no one ever got anywhere through falling on their sword. :rolleyes:

 

I agree. And we should bear in mind that, should things ever get too much out of hand and become a burden to our hosts, this site could easily be completely shut down.

 

I doubt that this would happen, though, and I for one would very much miss visiting every evening.

 

Personally, I am very grateful to Manders for providing this facility, and I think we should respect their wishes without quibbling. In the past I have got myself into trouble (not on here, I might add) by saying the wrong thing without thinking. Now I try to remember: if in doubt, don't say it!

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I would be saddened to see Cynic disappear. Now, I have absolutely no idea what prompted his and Mr Mander's upset, but I have always found his posts a good deal more entertaining than some on here, frankly. He has an obvious wide and illuminating experience which I for one am interested to share.

 

I also see little difference from commenting upon the latest Ford Mondeo (for example) than the latest Kia or something on a car website - even a manufacturers one. If something (a pipe organ, a car, a washing machine, an electronic organ) is truly dreadful, British or otherwise, then surely it is often stimulating for others to discuss it - folks may have a different experience of said item, and by providing debate allows interesting and often noteworthy discussion.

 

.....or have I totally missed the point?

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There is a point worth bearing in mind. If, as a player, one has a problem, or opinion whether good or bad of an instrument, it should be voiced, in the first instance to the custodian or owner of the instrument. There may be a good reason for the situation, and it may be currently under consideration, or have been dealt with in the best way possible by agreement of the parties involved. Unless absolutely cogniscent of all the facts and background, it is impossible to make a jugdement, and therefore inappropriate to make a comment. These things, by and large are private matters. this doesn't stop an opinion being voiced, it just tempers how, when and where it is done.

 

That, to me, is the point here.

 

AJS

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We should also remember that things are different in other parts of the world. Below is a cut and paste of a description of an organ from across the pond. Out of deference, I have removed the name of the builder concerned, although it was writ large.

 

The worst organ that I have played is a pneumatic organ in a Presbyterian church in town. It is an XXXXXXX built in 1980. In the pedal, the action caused the ranks to sound like a harpsichord plucked a string, first the 16 foot, then the 8 foot, then the 4 foot, and last the 2 foot. The manuals don't feel good under one's hands, and did not feel crisp, like I prefer. The organ is as cheap and cutcorner as imaginable, borrowed ranks from unenclosed divisions and enclosed divisions, making the expression pedals only good for certain registrations. The entire thing is crammed into and 8' X 8' X 10' space, every long pipe is mitred. There is only room to crawl under the chests. The pedals were marked and scratched from years of being played in dirty tennis shoes and the pedals had lots of sideways play. Every time you push a piston there is a sequence of bangs from inside the console and a loud smack as the drawstops all fly in and out according to the registrations. The expression pedals don't move smoothly, but scrape along loudly.

 

The tone colour is sick at best. The flutes sound airy and underpowered. The lower octaves of everything is muddy and distorted, as if submerged. The swell mixture is shrill and screechy, overpowering the rest of the swell organ. The bombarde on the pedal is underpowered and sickly sounding. The nastiest stop on the organ is the Trichter Regal, a four foot extension of the trumpet. It produces tones like an alley cat raping a light socket. The great Mixture is shrill, like an angered Chihuahua with amphetamine psychosis. I couldn't make one thing sound good on it.

 

This thing will tear your face off!

 

AJS

 

I would also hate for Cynic to stop contributing. The forum would be collectively poorer without his contribution.

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.....or have I totally missed the point?

John Mander is kind enough to provide the forum. If he feels that a contribution may cause him embarrassment in front of his professional colleagues (as he might, if the forum were to become a vehicle for criticism of those colleagues) then that, surely, is enough?

 

But Cynic, don't leave!

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I've been in contact with Cynic this afternoon and have been asked to post this simple message:

 

Various folks have tried getting in touch via the PM facility. This doesn't work for obvious reasons - i.e. I can't log on to receive them.

 

Cynic thanks all who have tried to get in touch and has asked you all not to worry! Presumably if anyone needs to contact him they can do it through his normal email address. If you need it PM me and I'll pas it on.

 

Hector

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One of the morals of this tale - which I have possibly mentioned before - is that in the days when communication was almost entirely by post there was an inevitable cooling off period between sealing the envelope and putting it in the postbox. With computers, once you have pressed the send/enter button it has gone. Perhaps we are all sometimes too hasty to press that button; I certainly have been on occasions, although not necessarily on this forum.

 

That said, I did read the original, unedited, posts but can't remember what the now deleted bits said. I'm sorry this has happened. I have had personal dealings with Paul and found him extremely friendly and helpful on more than one occasion. His advice on, for example, matters of technique and interpretation, freely given to us, was always very sound. I am sure Mr Mander would not have acted lightly in this matter and, as our very generous host, we must respect his views and his professional integrity.

 

What saddens me is that recent postings in general seem to have been a bit lack-lustre and some of our well-known regular contributors seem either not to be contributing at all, or contributing very little at the moment. I'm sure it will improve again once the long, cold winter evenings set in!

 

Malcolm

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Guest Patrick Coleman

Cynic has been a good friend to our organist, our organ and (since my arrival here) to me as well. He is as talented and generous a person as you could hope to find. The loss of his input will be a serious loss to all of us who trespass on Mr Mander's generosity in providing this forum.

 

As he provides this opportunity for discussion, Mr Mander is obviously at liberty to decide who discusses and what gets discussed. I must confess, however, that I can't see the difference between the (anonymised) comments made by Cynic (which I read in full before they were removed) and the very pointed comments made in the RAM thread about continental organ builders, and one in particular.

 

Being part of this forum has given me a wonderful opportunity to learn from interested people with a vast palette of specialised talents, and has given me the confidence to take part in initiating a massive organ project in the church here (Cynic has been instrumental in this). I share the view that the forum would be seriously diminished if it were just about reporting specifications and stoplists, requesting music or sharing news. Perhaps sailing close to the wind can have creative results!

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Err, forgive me if I'm being thick, but why can't Cynic/PD log in? As far as I can tell, having looked at his profile and the members list, he's still an active member.

 

J

 

 

I've been in contact with Cynic this afternoon and have been asked to post this simple message:

 

Various folks have tried getting in touch via the PM facility. This doesn't work for obvious reasons - i.e. I can't log on to receive them.

 

Cynic thanks all who have tried to get in touch and has asked you all not to worry! Presumably if anyone needs to contact him they can do it through his normal email address. If you need it PM me and I'll pas it on.

 

Hector

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I must confess, however, that I can't see the difference between the (anonymised) comments made by Cynic (which I read in full before they were removed) and the very pointed comments made in the RAM thread about continental organ builders, and one in particular.

Nor me, but we should not assume that we have all the information to hand. (I'm quite sure I don't.) For all we know the builder concerned might have read the comments made and complained to Mr Mander - and, if so, there is no reason why Mr Mander should divulge this to us. And similarly with other reasons.

 

Err, forgive me if I'm being thick, but why can't Cynic/PD log in? As far as I can tell, having looked at his profile and the members list, he's still an active member.

Not so long ago a member was banned for a year, but I don't think he ever appeared as de-registered. I may be wrong though. If Cynic has indeed been banned, I would hope that it is not a permanent situation and that in due course he will be allowed to return - and will wish to do so.

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