MusingMuso Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 But with all due respect - it does depend on taste - Britain's Got Talent is my personal idea of hell! A ==================== It's quite fun if you throw vegetables and eggs at the screen, but the last time I did that it cost a fortune in new carpets and a TV.....there was a whole family meal on the deck. I watched it while writing on the discussion board, which might explain something....... However, in a rare moment of concorde, I have to agree with our friend Carrick, because Jean Martyn is the most bubbly, smiley and energetic person I think I've ever met.....just delightful....and no mean performer in her chosen genre. I doubt that her appearance on BGT will lead to a stampede of young people wanting to learn the organ, but at least it got an airing on national TV. She probably hasn't got much a hope of appearing at the Royal Variety Performance, but I'm fairly sure that the 12 year-old boy who sang, will. Not many kids have such stage presence at that age, but he just wowed the audience. Of course, it's interesting to speculate the reasons why almost no classical musicians appear on the show. I think it would be very different in China....you know....that communist state where all men are equal.....not! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 This type of culture is transitory by its nature, the mistake that many who become involved with it seem to make. That is not to say exclusivity is right by any means either - bridges need to be built, and in capable hands they can be and have been - we all have a responsibility to do that to whatever extent we can manage. AJS ====================== My point exactly when I suggested that pop music existed at the right time in the right place. When times change, it is largely forgotten, leaving us with certain "classics." Curiously enough, the popular genres are even less inclusive than the light-classic and classical genres, and separated by clear generational demarcations. (I hope you can undertstand this AJS ) I put some music on the other day, and my dismally educated young friend John, with brutal savagery, dismissed and trashed, (in rapid succession), Ella Fitzgerald, Pavarotti, Whitney Houston, Barbara Streisand, Jerry Lee-Lewis, Michael Jackson's "Earth Song" and George Formby singing "When I'm cleaning windows." Asking if there was anything he wanted to listen to which didn't make him sick, I was expecting the sort of rubbish they churn out to-day on the music channels. Have you got "Oliver?" Well, well.....Show tunes.....a tiny glimmer of light! To-day "Oliver"....tomorrow.... "Bach trio-sonatas." MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Have you got "Oliver?" Well, well.....Show tunes.....a tiny glimmer of light! To-day "Oliver"....tomorrow.... "Bach trio-sonatas." MM Oliver has bn played to the hilt now. I dont normally watch britains got talent, but i thought id watch this year to see how Jean got on. She is giving a very dumbed down performance to what she would usually give. Going full on organ with the crowd wouldnt go down so well, but she has people giving some attention to the organ world, which given its current state, cant be a bad thing can it? It might not get thousands of young people playing them, but it may generate an interest to some who get curious and decide to delve into things abit more and see what its all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I dont normally watch britains got talent, but i thought id watch this year to see how Jean got on. She is giving a very dumbed down performance to what she would usually give. Going full on organ with the crowd wouldnt go down so well, but she has people giving some attention to the organ world, which given its current state, cant be a bad thing can it? It might not get thousands of young people playing them, but it may generate an interest to some who get curious and decide to delve into things abit more and see what its all about. ===================== I agree, but with one reservation. I thought her audition was very good, but I was somehow less impressed by more of the same in the semis; especially since I know that Jean has quite a broad repertoire. It's different in the UK to America and mainland Europe. There is, or at least was, a thriving bar/restaurant/concert organ-scene in Germany,(Klaus Wunderlich was one of the great exponents), street organs in Holland, bands and small ensembles in Spain, Italy (etc). In England, (as well as France), we used to have string-bands, seaside shows, palm court style orchestras (etc) and, of course club/restaurant/ bar organists. In America, there is a fabulous legacy of show tunes and film themes, black music and jazz, and that is in their veins. I'm sure there are other countries as bad as England, but now we are reduced almost exclusively to recorded pop-music, or worse still, rather nasty cover-albums pumped through tinny sounding loudspeakers in shopping-centres. "Going to hear music," is now an actual, physical activity these days, whereas it used to be normal to hear it played live at various venues, of which the cinema and the working men's clubs were just two examples. Even with TV shows, it is often supported by recorded music rather than live musicians. That creates a problem, because unless something is true to what kids hear on CD's, it doesn't tap into their cult-worship sensibilities and what the record producers want them to listen to. It really is about money and big-business, and half the young population see X.-factor and Pop Idol as their stepping stone to fame and fortune. Everyone, it seems, is following the same path....no originality, no real ability and no reason to question anything. I just wonder if it's best to leave kids to it, and let them listen to what they like. If anything, the best target audiences are people of the older, (but not the grandma and grandad generation), which by impoiucation, is the music of the 80's.....disco. newer show tunes, glam rock, progressive, soul......putting names to them, "Queen," "George Michael," "Chicago," "Gloria Gaynor" and "Dolly." So returning to Jean's second performance, I just wish she had chosen something outside 1950's music and appealed to mums and dads, because it isn't kids who vote, by and large. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 ===================== So returning to Jean's second performance, I just wish she had chosen something outside 1950's music and appealed to mums and dads, because it isn't kids who vote, by and large. MM She was playing crocodile rock, which Elton John brought out 30 years ago? I think for the final she is going to have to show off the organ (not just use the piano voices) and do some of her big band stuff with a Jive. She needs to make sure people know she is playing with her feet (im annoyed that the judges havent caught on that she is playing with her feet) as well as her hands. Maybe face them at a different angle? Or have her hands and feet shown on screens, at least people will know, and she will still have to do all that and keep smiling and winking and keeping the crowd going. What also got me about last night was the volume of the rythmns compared to what jean was actually playing. Seems a common thing now to do. I have noticed too lately that alot of younger people seem to be going for older music. I know a local DJ who does alot of 18th and 21st partys and the likes, and hes told me most of the requests he gets are songs from the 50s, 60s and 70s, and alot of things that have been in the charts recently are new takes on old songs. Ive also noticed an increase in old music being used in adverts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 She was playing crocodile rock, which Elton John brought out 30 years ago? I think for the final she is going to have to show off the organ (not just use the piano voices) and do some of her big band stuff with a Jive. She needs to make sure people know she is playing with her feet (im annoyed that the judges havent caught on that she is playing with her feet) as well as her hands. Maybe face them at a different angle? Or have her hands and feet shown on screens, at least people will know, and she will still have to do all that and keep smiling and winking and keeping the crowd going.What also got me about last night was the volume of the rythmns compared to what jean was actually playing. Seems a common thing now to do. I have noticed too lately that alot of younger people seem to be going for older music. I know a local DJ who does alot of 18th and 21st partys and the likes, and hes told me most of the requests he gets are songs from the 50s, 60s and 70s, and alot of things that have been in the charts recently are new takes on old songs. Ive also noticed an increase in old music being used in adverts. =============== The trouble is, the judges know almost nothing about almost anything outside pop-music. There was a memorable moment when the great Simon Cowell asked what the "ridiculous" accompaniment was all about on the piano. It was actually the way Schumann wrote it. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 =============== The trouble is, the judges know almost nothing about almost anything outside pop-music. There was a memorable moment when the great Simon Cowell asked what the "ridiculous" accompaniment was all about on the piano. It was actually the way Schumann wrote it. MM Hence why Jean is playing herself down. Still I was surprised that Simon said he liked Jean, this year is the first time a piano act has gotten into the show, and its the first time an organist has made an appearance. Jeans playing to the publics level and they love it, but shes going to have to do something different on Saturday. By then if I was her, I wouldnt care if I won or not. She`s got to the final, so now she should show herself off and give one of her concert performances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Richell Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 ==================== It's quite fun if you throw vegetables and eggs at the screen, but the last time I did that it cost a fortune in new carpets and a TV.....there was a whole family meal on the deck. I watched it while writing on the discussion board, which might explain something....... However, in a rare moment of concorde, I have to agree with our friend Carrick, because Jean Martyn is the most bubbly, smiley and energetic person I think I've ever met.....just delightful....and no mean performer in her chosen genre. I doubt that her appearance on BGT will lead to a stampede of young people wanting to learn the organ, but at least it got an airing on national TV. She probably hasn't got much a hope of appearing at the Royal Variety Performance, but I'm fairly sure that the 12 year-old boy who sang, will. Not many kids have such stage presence at that age, but he just wowed the audience. Of course, it's interesting to speculate the reasons why almost no classical musicians appear on the show. I think it would be very different in China....you know....that communist state where all men are equal.....not! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Richell Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I am not sure how a thread titled "The Organist Entertains" is discussing some programme called "Britains Got Talent" which I have never seen but mention is made of a Jean Martin who presumably plays an organ (not Hammond I hope) but does she play classical or light classical ? Personally I would have thought we had more than enough organists in this country already ! The mention of a female organist brought back memories of a lady called Cherry Rayner who played reguarly on TV. Am I correct ? Colin Richell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I am not sure how a thread titled "The Organist Entertains" is discussing some programme called "Britains Got Talent" which I have never seen but mention is made of a Jean Martin who presumably plays an organ (not Hammond I hope) but does she play classical or light classical ?Personally I would have thought we had more than enough organists in this country already ! The mention of a female organist brought back memories of a lady called Cherry Rayner who played reguarly on TV. Am I correct ? Colin Richell. Jean Martyn is playing organ (and she is most certainly entertaining on tv) .She is playing a yamaha EL900 organ. If it was hammond, or classical she was playing she wouldnt have got through, people wouldnt have stood for it . Jean has been touring the UK, Europe and the US for 30 years playing piano, and organ,. She plays in classical, light, theatre, boogie woogie, rock n roll, jazz and pop styles. She has played for celebrities several times, including royalty, and has appeared on the bbc several times too. "Personally I would have thought we had more than enough organists in this country already !" whats that suppose to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I am not sure how a thread titled "The Organist Entertains" is discussing some programme called "Britains Got Talent" which I have never seen but mention is made of a Jean Martin who presumably plays an organ (not Hammond I hope) but does she play classical or light classical ?Personally I would have thought we had more than enough organists in this country already ! The mention of a female organist brought back memories of a lady called Cherry Rayner who played reguarly on TV. Am I correct ? Colin Richell. ==================== I'm not sure what Colin is getting at, but I do think that we have to be careful not exclude anything if the organ is involved. There has always been a cross-over niche; currently very strong in America, but by no means unknown in the UK. I'm sure Colin will know the history, which has involved some extremely eminent organists, organ-builders and venues, from Percy Whitlock through to Malcolm Archer among others; from Hull City Hall and the Southampton Guildhall, to the Regal Marble Arch and the Dome Pavillion, Brighton. Some very well trained classical organists have made a very good living out of playing light music; others such as Bill Davies and Sidney Torch, moved into the world of music arranging and orchestral work. A lot of organists who play light music could be encouraged to make better music with a spot of classical training The electronic instruments, as synthesisers, have a massive presence in light music and pop music, due to their flexibility and ease of transportation, but it entirely up to the quality of the performer as to what sort of music comes out the other end. As for there being too many organists, I actually don't know of many local ones to-day, whereas I once knew perhaps 30 or 40. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Jean Martyn is playing organ (and she is most certainly entertaining on tv) .She is playing a yamaha EL900 organ. If it was hammond, or classical she was playing she wouldnt have got through, people wouldnt have stood for it . Jean has been touring the UK, Europe and the US for 30 years playing piano, and organ,. She plays in classical, light, theatre, boogie woogie, rock n roll, jazz and pop styles. She has played for celebrities several times, including royalty, and has appeared on the bbc several times too."Personally I would have thought we had more than enough organists in this country already !" whats that suppose to mean? Jean Martin lives only 4 miles from where I was bought up although I didn't realise till I moved to another part of the country! I once went to a church concert of hers. She was clearly a good player on the Yamaha instrument but played a few pieces on the church organ which would have given one a different opinion if the whole concert had been on that. Widor's 5th Symphony Toccata wasn't really played according to the score and it had a section missing - almost turning into a different piece for a few moments. John R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Richell Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Jean Martyn is playing organ (and she is most certainly entertaining on tv) .She is playing a yamaha EL900 organ. If it was hammond, or classical she was playing she wouldnt have got through, people wouldnt have stood for it . Jean has been touring the UK, Europe and the US for 30 years playing piano, and organ,. She plays in classical, light, theatre, boogie woogie, rock n roll, jazz and pop styles. She has played for celebrities several times, including royalty, and has appeared on the bbc several times too."Personally I would have thought we had more than enough organists in this country already !" whats that suppose to mean? As I said previously I know nothing about the programme, but isn't the idea of the programme to give amateurs the opportunity to show off their talents ? It is quite obvious that Jean Martin is, and has been, a professional musician for many years so why is she taking part in a talent show ? Is her appearance going to make her a better musician ? I just don't understand. When the BBC ran talent shows professionals were strictly excluded, and rightly so. Colin Richell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 As I said previously I know nothing about the programme, but isn't the idea of the programme to give amateurs the opportunity to show off their talents ? When the BBC ran talent shows professionals were strictly excluded, and rightly so. Colin Richell ======================== It's not an amateurs only competition, but open to absolutely anyone doing virtually anything. The prize is to appear at the Royal Variety Show, and win £100,000. Our only interest is the fact that Jean Martyn is playing an organ; albeit an electronic/synth style one. (It would be bit difficult to drag a pipe organ on stage). I believe that the opera singer Nigel Potts was a previous winner, and last year we saw a quite extraordinary athletics display group win. I think they are called "Diversity" and are nothing short of sensational. There were even a couple of hand-bell ringers last night, and they got quite a lot of votes from the public, so if any respectable organist can play something and impress, they might get to the finals.The trouble is, they would have to play the mush inferior electronic style instruments, presumably. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Morley Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 ========================...would have to play the mush inferior electronic style instruments presumably, MM this was not a typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 presumably, MM this was not a typo Well, played properly they are pretty good instruments. Theres plenty of people use yamahas for portability and reliability and ease of use. Ive also read that Jean was forced to change her act at the last minute (it wasnt what they wanted for TV apparently) and only got 1 hour to practice her routine and what she was playing that night! This has surfaced on youtube though recently of Jean on piano http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbKdeGmvB9c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Jean only got to 10th place in the final, but 10th place out of thousands of applicants for the show is very good going. She has brought the organ to the masses this week, and to a massive audience of around 10 million 3 times this week.....has any other organist done this before? Doubt it, not since Dixon has the organ world seen so much attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Jean only got to 10th place in the final, but 10th place out of thousands of applicants for the show is very good going. She has brought the organ to the masses this week, and to a massive audience of around 10 million 3 times this week.....has any other organist done this before? Doubt it, not since Dixon has the organ world seen so much attention! ================= To answer the first point, ther ever delightful Jean Martyn failed to deliver, but I suspect that she was badly advised. The only registration we heard was "piano," across all three performnces, and in the final, we heard her attempting to sing, but presumably this had not been communicated to the sound-engineers, who didn't provide a microphone. It was therefore disappointing on several fronts.......it didn't sound like an organ, it was poorl;y managed by the sound crew and, perhaps most importantly, the music was largely 30-50 years out of date. Even as pure "Rock," Jean is seriously outgunned by Cladia Herschfield in this particular category. Still, full marks to her for energy, liekability and presentation. Moving on to your assertion that no-one after Reg Dixon has done more to bring the organ to the public, I think it is important to think outside the box of local parish-boundary thinking. Klaus Wunderlich had world-wide sales which embraced Germany (as well as Holland/Austria etc), England and the USA, as well as all stations in between. His tours were absolute sell-outs, and I believe he managed to fill the Albert Hall on more than one occasion; such was his following. I don't think Reginald Dixon was very well known outside England, and the Americans just look baffled by his style, and fail to take it seriously. (The same is true of Phil Kelsall). Of course, classical organists could never attract big audiences or enjoy celebrity status.......could they? Virgil Fox is now just a memory, but there are a couple of other organists, (not Carlo Curley), who has something of a following, and they aren't American. The first is probably one of the most technically gifted organists in the worldm and possibly second only to Cameron Carpenter for out and out technique. I refer, of course, to Argentinian-born organist, Hector Olivera, who is quite an international celebrity; bringing classical, light-classical and light-music to the attention of his audiences in a quite extraordinary way, using anything from classical pipe-organ to electronics. http://www.hectorolivera.com/ (Don't miss the "Live in Japan" video - click on the DVD/CD link) The second is something of a TV presenter/personality in Hungary, even allowing for the fact that he was on the short list for the "50 most irritationg people in Hungary." Somewhat flamboyant, not a little outrageous, often controversial, but seldom dull, Xaver Varnus brings a combination of quite classy "cross-over" arrangements and classical organ works to his public:- Note the audience of 7,000 in the Budapest, Great Synagogue. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ================= To answer the first point, ther ever delightful Jean Martyn failed to deliver, but I suspect that she was badly advised. The only registration we heard was "piano," across all three performnces, and in the final, we heard her attempting to sing, but presumably this had not been communicated to the sound-engineers, who didn't provide a microphone. It was therefore disappointing on several fronts.......it didn't sound like an organ, it was poorl;y managed by the sound crew and, perhaps most importantly, the music was largely 30-50 years out of date. Even as pure "Rock," Jean is seriously outgunned by Cladia Herschfield in this particular category. Still, full marks to her for energy, liekability and presentation. Moving on to your assertion that no-one after Reg Dixon has done more to bring the organ to the public, I think it is important to think outside the box of local parish-boundary thinking. Klaus Wunderlich had world-wide sales which embraced Germany (as well as Holland/Austria etc), England and the USA, as well as all stations in between. His tours were absolute sell-outs, and I believe he managed to fill the Albert Hall on more than one occasion; such was his following. I don't think Reginald Dixon was very well known outside England, and the Americans just look baffled by his style, and fail to take it seriously. (The same is true of Phil Kelsall). Of course, classical organists could never attract big audiences or enjoy celebrity status.......could they? Virgil Fox is now just a memory, but there are a couple of other organists, (not Carlo Curley), who has something of a following, and they aren't American. The first is probably one of the most technically gifted organists in the worldm and possibly second only to Cameron Carpenter for out and out technique. I refer, of course, to Argentinian-born organist, Hector Olivera, who is quite an international celebrity; bringing classical, light-classical and light-music to the attention of his audiences in a quite extraordinary way, using anything from classical pipe-organ to electronics. The second is something of a TV presenter/personality in Hungary, even allowing for the fact that he was on the short list for the "50 most irritationg people in Hungary." Somewhat flamboyant, not a little outrageous, often controversial, but seldom dull, Xaver Varnus brings a combination of quite classy "cross-over" arrangements and classical organ works to his public:- Note the audience of 7,000 in the Budapest, Great Synagogue. MM The Americans wanted Dixon to go over to the states on tour, but he had his tour over here to do first, and by the time that was done, he was too ill. There was a HUGE demand for him over there. As for Jean on the show last night, I think they pushed her personality too much, rather than her playing skills. Personally I think they made a mockery of her. If she was given the chance and was let do what she wanted to do, she would have wiped the floor with the other pianist Paul. Also as for the "piano" registration, the public dont know what an organ should and shouldnt sound like. PLUS, the "organ" sounds wouldnt have came across as clearly on tv sets as the piano registrations did. She puts a smile on peoples faces, and she even managed to get Simon Cowell to like it. He is normally the first to critisise keyboard/piano/organ acts! Not one of the "judges" have ever said a bad word about her. Hector Olivera is an entertainer and showman as well. In abit more of a "niche" but he works the crowd. Thats what Virgil Fox done, he worked the crowd and entertained. Cameron Carpenters skill is fantastic, but hes far from being the way forward. I dont see Claudia on tv either. Infact, Jean is the only organist to actually go on the show so far. I could also say the same about classical/church organists playing music that is 300 years out of date. We dont see orchestras saying, oh, ditch all this stuff, it was composed 100 years ago.........the difference is, the music Jean played is well known. Music from Grease and "making your mind up" by Bucks Fizz (which was a Eurovision hit in 1981). A majority of what Jean was playing was known by the Public. The music she played last night spanned 3 decades, Nutrocker (1960s), Your The One That I Want (1978), Making Your Mind Up - 1981. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The Americans wanted Dixon to go over to the states on tour, but he had his tour over here to do first, and by the time that was done, he was too ill. There was a HUGE demand for him over there.As for Jean on the show last night, I think they pushed her personality too much, rather than her playing skills. Personally I think they made a mockery of her. If she was given the chance and was let do what she wanted to do, she would have wiped the floor with the other pianist Paul. Also as for the "piano" registration, the public dont know what an organ should and shouldnt sound like. PLUS, the "organ" sounds wouldnt have came across as clearly on tv sets as the piano registrations did. She puts a smile on peoples faces, and she even managed to get Simon Cowell to like it. He is normally the first to critisise keyboard/piano/organ acts! Not one of the "judges" have ever said a bad word about her. Hector Olivera is an entertainer and showman as well. In abit more of a "niche" but he works the crowd. Thats what Virgil Fox done, he worked the crowd and entertained. Cameron Carpenters skill is fantastic, but hes far from being the way forward. I dont see Claudia on tv either. Infact, Jean is the only organist to actually go on the show so far. I could also say the same about classical/church organists playing music that is 300 years out of date. We dont see orchestras saying, oh, ditch all this stuff, it was composed 100 years ago.........the difference is, the music Jean played is well known. Music from Grease and "making your mind up" by Bucks Fizz (which was a Eurovision hit in 1981). A majority of what Jean was playing was known by the Public. The music she played last night spanned 3 decades, Nutrocker (1960s), Your The One That I Want (1978), Making Your Mind Up - 1981. ================== There may have been a demand for Reg Dixon, but my own observations of the American resposne to the Blackppol style come from some of the membership of the American Theatre Organ Society, who more or less say that Phil Kelsall raises eyebrows, but not much else. It just idn't the American way of doing things, and I'm talking in the present tense rather than in the past one. As for the public not knowing what an organ sounds like, is that terribly important? Are you making a case for the organ never being brought to the attention of the publlic again? Personally, I think most members of the public know exactly what an organ sounds like, even if they choose not to listen to them. Virgil Fox did indeed work the crowd, but he was often grossly inaccurate and often re-invented things as he saw fit; thus inviting ridicule from serious musicians and music critics alike. Cameron Carpenter will, in all probability, remain in a minority of one. I doubt that there is anyone in the world who can do what he can do, or even want to do what he can do, and therein lies the problem. He is, nevertheless, quite phenomenal. As I've already pointed out, organists in other countries are often on TV and radio, and in the UK, the last extensive programming involved both Howard Goodall and John Scotti-Whiteley playing classical organs and music in their respective programmes "Howard Goodall's Organ works" and "21st century Bach." Frankly, I doubt that anyone to-day would be turned on by replicating the style of "Mr.Blackpool" or any of his clones, whatever appeal it may have to a relatively tiny niche within the theatre organ world. I simply do not understand the comment about classical organists playing music 300 years old. The same could be said of almost any instrumentalist or instrumental ensemble, and indeed choral groups. That is the market, and that is what is expected. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ================== There may have been a demand for Reg Dixon, but my own observations of the American resposne to the Blackppol style come from some of the membership of the American Theatre Organ Society, who more or less say that Phil Kelsall raises eyebrows, but not much else. It just idn't the American way of doing things, and I'm talking in the present tense rather than in the past one. As for the public not knowing what an organ sounds like, is that terribly important? Are you making a case for the organ never being brought to the attention of the publlic again? Personally, I think most members of the public know exactly what an organ sounds like, even if they choose not to listen to them. Virgil Fox did indeed work the crowd, but he was often grossly inaccurate and often re-invented things as he saw fit; thus inviting ridicule from serious musicians and music critics alike. Cameron Carpenter will, in all probability, remain in a minority of one. I doubt that there is anyone in the world who can do what he can do, or even want to do what he can do, and therein lies the problem. He is, nevertheless, quite phenomenal. As I've already pointed out, organists in other countries are often on TV and radio, and in the UK, the last extensive programming involved both Howard Goodall and John Scotti-Whiteley playing classical organs and music in their respective programmes "Howard Goodall's Organ works" and "21st century Bach." Frankly, I doubt that anyone to-day would be turned on by replicating the style of "Mr.Blackpool" or any of his clones, whatever appeal it may have to a relatively tiny niche within the theatre organ world. I simply do not understand the comment about classical organists playing music 300 years old. The same could be said of almost any instrumentalist or instrumental ensemble, and indeed choral groups. That is the market, and that is what is expected. MM I never said that the organ shouldnt be heard in public again. Jean was using a simple registration, for the purposes of TV and the Public. The public DONT know the difference between a piano and organ sounds, let alone know the difference between an organ and a piano, they think they are both the same thing. Well you said jean was playing music that was 30-50 years old and that it was out of date. In that case, then so is nearly 100% of organ repetoir, orchestral works, etc etc. Jean played what was expected of her. Should classical organist stop playing music that was written more than 30 years ago?! Should orchestras just do the same thing because its more than 30 years old?! As for the ATOS, many of the people I have spoken to in the US dont have much of an opinion of the ATOS. Much the same as many in the UK dont have a great opinion of the COS. And when the COS go to the ATOS conventions, very few will go near them! A majority of americans I have spoken to LOVE the Blackpool style, as does Richard Hills (that is where he started off). It has to be done properly, and there are only two or three organists who can pull it off as it should be. The current Blackpool style is best described as "contemporary" or "heavy" Blackpool, and its far from what it used to be except with it being in strict tempo. Robert Wolfe is popular in the US and in Australia. Hes about as close to 50s/60s Dixon as you can get now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwhodges Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The public DONT know the difference between a piano and organ sounds, What tripe. Why does any film or TV or radio show that wants to place a scene in a church or a religious context put organ music in the background? Precisely because the public can recognise it, of course (though sadly they may be reinforcing an association with churches that is regrettable for the organs which are elsewhere). Some of the public might not be able to name the instrument - but tell the difference they most certainly can. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What tripe. Why does any film or TV or radio show that wants to place a scene in a church or a religious context put organ music in the background? Precisely because the public can recognise it, of course (though sadly they may be reinforcing an association with churches that is regrettable for the organs which are elsewhere). Some of the public might not be able to name the instrument - but tell the difference they most certainly can. Paul TRIPE. Most films/tv shows dont have a church or religious scene in them. Even the funerals/weddings etc now have a cd played on tv. # They STILL dont know the difference between an organ and a piano. To them they are the same thing. Keyboard is a piano, piano is a keyboard, organ is a piano, organ is a keyboard, keyboard is an organ. If it has keys, they are the same thing to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Allcoat Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Do you think it's going to be the driest summer on record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeron Glyn Preston Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 TRIPE. Most films/tv shows dont have a church or religious scene in them. Even the funerals/weddings etc now have a cd played on tv. #They STILL dont know the difference between an organ and a piano. To them they are the same thing. Keyboard is a piano, piano is a keyboard, organ is a piano, organ is a keyboard, keyboard is an organ. If it has keys, they are the same thing to the public. This, sadly, is my personal experience too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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