Improvisation

[kropf]

Improvising for me is not about 'showing off' but about communicating to those who listen in the most succinct and apposite way. This of course can mean 'excitement' at times but for most times small-scale pertinent movements are the most rewarding. Rambling suggests no Form which to some intents and purposes a listener needs to enjoy in a spontaneous piece as there is a comprehensible structure to the work that they can appreciate for some reason......

At least it is communicating and imperfections (as in musical improvisation too) that get simply ironed out as time passes.

Even a player at 50 years must take simple easy steps and stages when learning another language even if they are fluent in their native one. The same with improvisation. Just because they can play much repertoire does not mean that their ability is the same in the creation of music. Simple phrases that mean something are the basis of producing sentences. Sentences then join to form paragraphs, and so on. It is all gently structured and painless. Not everyone will make a great orator, but we all can communicate musically in some way with daily or constant practice. Simplicity is the watch-word for many people.

 

Thanks, Nigel!

I belong to those who at least had a brief (but informative and humorous!) encounter with your teaching/discussion about improvisation (was it Knokke 1993?).

In Germany, Improvisation is, on one hand, highly estimated. But regarded as an art and craft, the music you get to hear covers a VERY broad range, from masterful to horrible - and certainly the latter is most often presented without any questioning of its value...

Many books and aids have been mentioned in this thread, the list may be enlarged. But the most important thing is a good ear, and the easiest way to get this is a good teacher. You should refer to good improvisation TEACHERS, not only good improvisers. Both is often found within the same person, but there were and are some known improvisers around who are unable or unwilling to teach. Very gifted musicians will extract the rules of musical art from listening to or reading music or books on it only - imagine a young Mozart, Bach, Mendelssohn... those boys just had to meet the previously written masterpieces and had less need for real persons revealing the mysteries of compositions to them.

But that is not us. So try to get a fine ear that can judge well. Among my teachers was one, who had no idea about improvisation didactics, but could comment extremely well on anything I played (beeing a known composer). So I copied the curriculum from another organ class and my teacher than just had to tell what sounded bad.

Having tought improvisation for years at three music universities, I am persuaded of another thing: If you do not need just a first-aid pack for basic service playing, you have to go through the whole, the complete history. In academic life, this can be done easily within four years. Why that?

Even jazz players, when studying according to the internationally acknowledged Berklee method, they are able to play Dixieland (at the beginning) and hopefully enter contemporary jazz after some terms. But 9 of 10 do not start with 21st c style, as they will always feel they are missing some craft.

And in classical improvisation it is the same. I can easily discover in an improvisation of french symphonic style, if the player is able to perform a simple, but correct Bach chorale harmonisation or a simple three part imitiation on the level of a Pachelbel verset.

If you understood how to create a useful bicinium following 15th c counterpoint rules, you will succesfully create a two voice piece in a Messiaen scale, or create fine outer lines of a four part harmonisation of a melody, or any own thing, and in any style.

Because the basic principles of tension and release, order and exception, they have been valid through centuries.

Having said this, I want to encourage everybody out there:

Improvise! We have lost so much with that replay-only attitude of the last 100 years. Improvise, and get on your feet to find out how to improve it.

As Nigel puts it: Communication, it's all about communication! If there is contact between player and audience, nobody will talk about "errors" in the texture, as long as the audience appreciates what has been communicated between the lines.

A player with brave attitude, not beeing arrogant or too much self-conscious, will always try not to exceed his capabilities and so pay his duty by pleasing the audience, how simple the musical outcome may have been.

Those who can boast Toccatas, polyphonic movements or impressive atonal chaos (with an inner order, though), go ahead!

It is so good that at least our instrument - as the nearly only one within the classical range - has retained improvisation as acknowledged part of its art, which can be found and heard not only on some discs or video clips, but is kept alive by many players many times a week. Try always to stand off that "paging music", extending the acoustical pollution from warehouses, pedestrian tunnels, restaurants etc. into churches or concert halls. Try to communicate, to tell, to comment. And if you do not know what to "say", behave like in real life: Keep quiet. The silence will create the space for new ideas, be they simple or elaborated, be it in the same service or concert, or days or years later...

[MusingMuso]

As Nigel puts it: Communication, it's all about communication!

 

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Crumbs! I never though improvisation could be this simple.

 

I feel sure that I will spend all of Sunday afternoon trying to understand what Karl is saying, but fear that I am not up to the task.

 

I recall a wonderful thing written, I think, by the late Peter Ustinov; trying to explain national approaches to the same thing:-

 

The German's in writing about the Elephant, would entitle a book, "The Elephant....it's environment, developmental history, breeding cycle, food consumption and long term sustainability and viability in the modern world."

 

The French would entitle it:' "L'Oliphante."

 

 

MM

[kropf]

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Crumbs! I never though improvisation could be this simple.

 

I feel sure that I will spend all of Sunday afternoon trying to understand what Karl is saying, but fear that I am not up to the task.

 

I recall a wonderful thing written, I think, by the late Peter Ustinov; trying to explain national approaches to the same thing:-

 

The German's in writing about the Elephant, would entitle a book, "The Elephant....it's environment, developmental history, breeding cycle, food consumption and long term sustainability and viability in the modern world."

 

The French would entitle it:' "L'Oliphante."

 

 

MM

 

......well.......

 

I am Austrian, but I would like to add a little precision, though:

 

First, you should have to say something to the audience/congregation. It should not be: I am the greatest Improviser in town or in this room (even if its true). You should try to serve. ("We serve" that's pretty English, I think.. Is the Rotary Club an English invention?)

There are differencies between concert and service playing. In a concert, one may be more right in thinking "It's all about me!" (the organist). But still not completely right, though.

 

I wanted to encourage those, who see, especially during a service, there is a certain need for improvised music in a certain moment. Than they should fill the gap with their means. "Communicate" joy if it as a joyful occasion, be moderate if you are in lent or in a prayer service for Japan (well, anybody will be...).

And, if you just see an opportunity to project your "art" only, refrain from playing.

Well, that's for services. Concerts are different, there the "market", i. e. the reaction of the audience, comments in the papers etc. will govern your way as improviser.

[mjgrieveson]

If you understood how to create a useful bicinium following 15th c counterpoint rules, you will succesfully create a two voice piece in a Messiaen scale, or create fine outer lines of a four part harmonisation of a melody, or any own thing, and in any style.

 

Oh dear. Really? I think I had better abandon my improvisation ambitions.

[Nigel Allcoat]

I have now 'caught up' as they say, and have read the various postings here and elsewhere. Time was not on my side when I first encountered the posts and I thought that I had instigated a bit of a rumpus over Improvisation - when in fact it was a series of tangled threads creating a cat's cradle in the ether.

But, I do hope that as Malvern is famed for many things, somebody will endeavour to create a bridge over troubled waters 'ere long.

N

[kropf]

If you understood how to create a useful bicinium following 15th c counterpoint rules, you will succesfully create a two voice piece in a Messiaen scale, or create fine outer lines of a four part harmonisation of a melody, or any own thing, and in any style.

 

Oh dear. Really? I think I had better abandon my improvisation ambitions.

 

But that is not what I meant. Assumed that the above is true, it does not express that this would be the only way to build a useful two part piece. It just says it is a definite one.

To clarify, the biggest enemy of improvisation is the fear to do it. But there are a few musicians around* one would like to ask to improvise less. It's more a question of character, I think....

 

*) and some of them get paid for their job, and sometimes not too little!

[MusingMuso]

......well.......

 

I am Austrian

 

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Austrian?

 

There was I thinking you were all schnitzel and counterpoint, and instead, you're all apfelstrudel and polkas!

 

Actually, it was your fellow countryman, Martin Haselbok, who told me that he regarded the French approach to improvisation as being quite different from the Germanic style.

 

He said, and I quote exactly, "The Germans think in contrapuntal horizontal lines, and the French think in melody and vertical harmony."

 

Now there is a huge difference, and when I listen to many French improvisations, I hear lots of melodic fragments, quite a lot of pseudo-figuration and a lot of augmented, often chordal harmony. The French also have a way with rhythm.

 

The Germanic way seems to be altogether more formal with lots of imitation and counterpoint; no matter how imprecise the counterpoint may be.

 

Of course, there are obvious overlaps between the two approaches, and the best exponents of each venture freely into the territory of the other.

 

Speaking personally, I would always gravitate towards the Germanic style; possibly because I play only a limited amount of Fench-romantic repertoire. I often build on 4ths and 4th relationships, which lend themselves well to pentatonic harmony, but I also enjoy playing around with a style which is broadly similar to Hindemith; freely mixing up modes to produce all sorts of false relations and harmonic/melodic dissonances. As I said prevously, on a good day I can make music, but on a bad day, silence would be better.

 

MM

[Nigel Allcoat]

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Of course, there are obvious overlaps between the two approaches, and the best exponents of each venture freely into the territory of the other.

 

MM

 

I have always found that teaching improvisation is very much the same as teaching any subject. There are firstly historical generalisations but more importantly one teaches individuals to gain confidence, to be fluid and musical (phrases, rests, texture), and just enough notes to say what is required. Furthermore, vapid left hand flap is not really desired in my book. Each student requires individual attention. The weak areas are made stronger and the good areas made more remarkable. Each person brings along different areas needing attention. Therefore, I have found books a good basis to gather some inspiration and to appreciate the musical stance of the writer - but like a composer, each has an idiosyncratic style that is their musical DNA. For me, a teacher of improvisation is not stamping their style on a player but a teacher winkling out the personal harmonic language of the student so that they have their own style. The major problem is that the student rarely thinks they are doing any good because they try to analyse as they play. Unfortunately, what they are doing is always looking over their shoulder, metaphorically. I use the analogy of riding a bicycle - look ahead within reason, not behind or just where the wheels are travelling or else you will crash.

Frequently stop changes are made and irrational pistons pressed to compensate for what they imagine is not so good music. Teaching really only requires the most fundamental of sounds so that they enjoy the beauty of it and have no recourse to keep changing. Certainly not a tutti as that is just playing around with noise. That comes later! The organ is primarily a contrapuntal instrument and 'line' is so very important so that texture can be controlled. The reason why there might be thought to be national styles is because of indigenous liturgical music married to the the disposition of the instruments.

Each player like the patient entering the doctor's consulting room, brings a different challenge or ailment and so I always say there is no one way of teaching or of demonstrating. I have sometimes learned much from a student because they challenge the teacher to teach.

Sorry to be in serious mood again!

Best wishes,

N

[MusingMuso]

I have always found that teaching improvisation is very much the same as teaching any subject. There are firstly historical generalisations but more importantly one teaches individuals to gain confidence, to be fluid and musical (phrases, rests, texture), and just enough notes to say what is required. Furthermore, vapid left hand flap is not really desired in my book. Each student requires individual attention. The weak areas are made stronger and the good areas made more remarkable. Each person brings along different areas needing attention. Therefore, I have found books a good basis to gather some inspiration and to appreciate the musical stance of the writer - but like a composer, each has an idiosyncratic style that is their musical DNA. For me, a teacher of improvisation is not stamping their style on a player but a teacher winkling out the personal harmonic language of the student so that they have their own style. The major problem is that the student rarely thinks they are doing any good because they try to analyse as they play. Unfortunately, what they are doing is always looking over their shoulder, metaphorically. I use the analogy of riding a bicycle - look ahead within reason, not behind or just where the wheels are travelling or else you will crash.

Frequently stop changes are made and irrational pistons pressed to compensate for what they imagine is not so good music. Teaching really only requires the most fundamental of sounds so that they enjoy the beauty of it and have no recourse to keep changing. Certainly not a tutti as that is just playing around with noise. That comes later! The organ is primarily a contrapuntal instrument and 'line' is so very important so that texture can be controlled. The reason why there might be thought to be national styles is because of indigenous liturgical music married to the the disposition of the instruments.

Each player like the patient entering the doctor's consulting room, brings a different challenge or ailment and so I always say there is no one way of teaching or of demonstrating. I have sometimes learned much from a student because they challenge the teacher to teach.

Sorry to be in serious mood again!

Best wishes,

N

 

 

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A fascinating observation I have never contemplated previously....thank you for that.

 

When listening to some of those marvellous improvisations I stumbled across when writing the "Hungarian trip," the stylistic differences were very marked. Some of the organists belong to the Lutheran tradition, and Bailnt Karosi, (for example), tends to have that "Germanic" formality, while others demonstrate something much more like the French way; many of them having taken themselves off to study in Paris.

 

However, there is an area of improvisation which most organists overlook.....the great silent film accompanists!

 

I doubt that they would have considered their art and craft as being "contrapuntal," and having had the very great privilege of listening to the late Ena Baga accompany silent-films on the Compton organ of the Odeon, Leicster Square, she was using an essentially orchestral style based on the melodic, with the rhythm largely dictated by the pace of the visual images and thematic context. "Seamless" is the only way to describe her astonishing skill, and even in her late eighties, she appeared regularly at the National Film Theatre in London, when they showed many of the early classics. (She was, apparently, a friend of Cahrlie Chaplin during his lifetime).

 

Of course, the limitation of the organ will always be that imposed by having (normally) only a single player, and there is only so much an organist can do with ten fingers and two pieds. When the melody sustains, something else has to happen, and that "something" has to be either shifting harmony or linear motion. Maybe this is why we think of "national styles" rather than the more accurate matter of musical expediency and the "gene-pool" of thematic material.

 

I don't know whether Nigel investigated the improvisations I highlighted on the "Hungarian Trip" topic, but I would suggest that "national styles" certainly DO exist, but not necessarily intentionally.

 

Was the music of Antily-Zoross (see Hungarian thread), really written down improvisation? I don't know, but it sounds that way to my ears, and if so, it probably started in the theatre, but drew on the Hungarian folk-music heritage.

 

Another utterly astonishing improvisation was that recorded by Joyce Jones on the organ of the West Point Military Academy, in the USA. Here, she used a popular Japanese tune called "aka Tombo" with all those interesting oriental scales and fourth relationships. That tune completely dictated what was possible and desirable, but using very French impressionist harmony, Joyce Jones created something truly beautiful and memorable, and that can't be said of many improvisations. (I'm very glad that she recorded this for posterity, because it is an object lesson to us all).

 

Thank you also for the comment about "left hand flap," which always annoys me. It usually tells me that the improviser is thinking only "top and bottom" and has just run out of ideas.

 

It's what happens in the big-top when the nice pussy-cat has just killed the lion-tamer, the Ringmaster has just shot the pussy-cat and all the children are crying and screaming.

 

"Bring on the clowns!"

 

MM

[jonadkins]

I just wanted to "bump" this thread back up to the top and ask the original poster how his improvisation is going.

 

I remember I started a similar topic a while ago, wanting to know if there were any "secrets" to improvising, but I suppose in my heart of hearts I knew:

 

1 - have rules and/or a theme in mind

2 - don't waffle/prevaricate

3 - completely expunge Howells and Messiaen from my mind, because I am not as clever as Howells or Messiaen

4 - don't go on too long or loud

5 - but then, don't be to timid, for this might just lead to 2 above

6 - Don't beat yourself up for not being as good as the very greatest.

[Simon Walker]

Thanks Jon for your interest and helpful tips! I'm continuing to do it every time I play a service of course, but I do try to devote some practice time to it now as well. I still feel I can be a bit hit and miss, however - it's something I've gained so much more confidence in during the last two years or so and many people have been very complementary. I find moody and mysterious impro's much easier to do than jolly and happy stuff and I'm still not there with inprovising toccata figurations yet. I figure I just have to keep at it. I'd like to be really good at it, but I've got a long way to go yet before I'd dare do a concert improvisation. One day perhaps.

 

Roll on Easter Day - I'll have several processions to extemporise and the famous ringing of the bells (with full organ sounding) before the Gloria is sung at the Vigil!

[S_L]

Roll on Easter Day - I'll have several processions to extemporise and the famous ringing of the bells (with full organ sounding) before the Gloria is sung at the Vigil!

 

Don't forget the 'Gloria' at the Evening Mass on Maundy Thursday - at the Mass of the Last Supper - again with the ringing of the bells!!

[Simon Walker]

Don't forget the 'Gloria' at the Evening Mass on Maundy Thursday - at the Mass of the Last Supper - again with the ringing of the bells!!

 

Sadly the organ is silent from now until the vigil - no organ in holy week. The bells will be rung but no organ as far as I'm aware. Is it really right top have a great big organ impro on Maundy Thursday - does that not take something away from the high celebration of the vigil mass? I think I remember once being at a church when this was done though.

[S_L]

Sadly the organ is silent from now until the vigil - no organ in holy week. The bells will be rung but no organ as far as I'm aware. Is it really right top have a great big organ impro on Maundy Thursday - does that not take something away from the high celebration of the vigil mass? I think I remember once being at a church when this was done though.

 

 

Certainly the rubric of the Roman rite allows for the bells to be rung and the organ played during the Gloria on Maundy Thursday and here at the Oratory in Birmingham there is an improvisation before the Gloria on that day. The Oratorians are notorious for 'things done properly' and, after all, the Mass of Maundy Thursday is the celebration of the Institution of the Eucharist - a cause for celebration so, I suspect, that is their interpretation of things.

 

The organ has been silent for the whole of Lent, except for Laetare Sunday and, after Thursday's celebration, both organ and bells, including the sanctuary bells are indeed silent until the Gloria of the Vigil.

 

However local customs will, I suspect, prevail and different people will do diferent things in different places.

[Simon Walker]

Yep - we're not doing the gloria at all on maundy thursday. It seems it will be a very low key service. Tenebre is a different story. We're expecting nearly full congregations on all three nights, especially on Good Friday.