Guest stevecbournias Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 OK. Just a few thoughts: A huge organ like that would probably take forever to tune and be difficult to keep in tune because of the colossal size of the building. It would be like painting the Forth Bridge. Once you got right to the end, you would have to start again at the other end! If you are not careful it could end up sounding like one huge harmonium. Could a place like the Vatican find justification to finance a huge team required to maintain such a large instrument? Would the congregational and liturgical requirements be better served with a more modest West End section but with additional smaller departments throughout the length of the building to assist with congregational singing? Is there musical and technical integrity with the design? Will it be a well proportioned, economical design or are there too many duplications? Would one stop serve the same purpose instead of a row of ten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 In this case, the organ would be installed in an existing building. The questions I was asking would be ones organ builders / organists / church authorities would be asking. I know this is fantasy organ design, so I deliberately didn't seek to criticise your efforts. I was making some more general comments. I do like your design though. It is big and brash, certainly a statement that screams "this is an organ fit for largest religious edifice on the planet." If this design was ever to come to fuition it would definately show what the Pontiff's priorities are. The ears of the poor in Rome would prick up as they hear such wonderful music in the distance. As these paupers poked their head round the great west door of St. Peter's, their eyes would widen in awe at the shiny, glistening sight and the wonderous amazing sounds at such intensity never heard before in a building. And these sad, pathetic homeless beings will realise their lot is not so bad after all. These magnificent rolls of tin and beautifully crafted wooden branches will be their home, their shelter. The musical sounds rolling around the Basilica will be their Walkman, their Radio, if only for a few hours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 "Well," I thought, "this is certainly a catholic instrument." On re-reading the specification between lunch and dinner, I realised that I had made a terrible mistake. There I was, skipping around the front room to music played by an Irish band, "Piccoloing ma Gigue" wonderfully. It seemed that the organ stop was some Harry Potteresque 'Picollo Magique'....a sort of organist's Nimbus 2000 presumably. I had no idea that there were quite so many organ-stops in existence, in so many diferent languages and potentially under one roof. Just one small gripe. With so many ranks of everything, why does the organ need compensating Mixtures? Are you expecting problems? MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 There I was, skipping around the front room to music played by an Irish band, "Piccoloing ma Gigue" wonderfully. Sounds like what that 'Ray Cooney' character is Little Britain might say 'Picollo Magique' '2ft zauberflute.' Sometimes organbuilders do seem to label some stops with fancy names for quite ordinary ranks. In the church where I grew up we had a 'flute couverte', 'flute harmonique', 'cor harmonique'. I am sure there even worse fancy names about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I understand St Peter's has a reverberation time of 7 seconds. Given that lower frequencies take longer to decay than higher ones, are all those manual 32s going to allow us actually to hear any music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I understand St Peter's has a reverberation time of 7 seconds. Given that lower frequencies take longer to decay than higher ones, are all those manual 32s going to allow us actually to hear any music? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By installing more high pressure Open Diapasons and batteries of Tuba Magna Humungas of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roffensis Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 St Peter's prob has more than 7 seconds, but no would ever know because it's either full of absorbant people, and anyway there is nothing in there to get the building going. The organ would shine in the church like a star, it would lead people heavenward to higher things, to glories above, reincarnated on earth made to look and sound like an organ while actually being something enterely different, but to our mere mortal senses, changed. The rolls of tin would reflect the papal glory in every facet of colour and hue, and the wood would remind us of the cross. It all makes so much sense. It would bring the very heathen to his knees, and yes, there would be CDs. Lots of them. Probably one a week, the demand would be so high. The church would have to doubled in size to accomodate the throngs. An essential stop in any catholic church is of course the 4 foot flute, and I do think that a bombarde division exclusively of 4 foot flutes would have to be the priority. It wont happen! One four foot is enough at St Peters, R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank God that spec has disappered. I lost the will to live when I saw it. Couldn't be asked to read through it. Did it have a 64' by any chance? I can't see the point in the things. They do nothing in the bottom octave (except sound like a helicopter in the distance) and take away the fun of the bottom octave of the 32 in the bottom octave by having the 32 in the middle octave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 narrow-minded british stuffed shirt lets see ur vatican spec all 95 of ur posts on this forum wreak of the dream world of academia u live in ur conservatism is so apalling that u must have formaldahyde instead of red blood in ur system all u do is come on here to slam others u have nothing positive to offer, only negative coz u fancy urself a guru of organ matters and i doubt u know very much at all <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pot calling kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just so that this thread can continue to make some sort of sense, here again is the spec that Steve posted: Over many years various plans have been written for a grand organ for the basilica. So far nothing. That does not mean it will never happen. It just means it hasn't happened yet. So, I wish to throw into the ring my own plan for the west end along with Cavaille-coll, Mutin, Willis III and any others. I would have Ruffati supervise, and numerous builders come together to build this scheme into a real organ. St peters basilica grand west end gallery organ vaticano(if the gallery as pictured in audsleys book isnt big enuff for this organ we will make a bigger gallery ...all we need is space and money and the earth is full of both!!!!!) C-C and King Henry eat ur hearts out! Great A....flue work....unenclosed.....duplexed on manuals II&IV Principal32 Octave16 Firstdiapason16 Seconddiapason16 Violonediapason16 Tibia16 Spitzflute16 Mutation10-2/3 Stentordiapason8 Majordiapason8 Diapason-1-8 Diapason2-8 Diapason3-8 Diapason4-8 Majorflute8 Grossdoppelflote Tibia8x Stoppeddiapason8 Harmonicclaribel8 Grandgamba8 Fifth5-1/3 Stentoroctave4 Majoroctave4 Principal-1-4 Principal2-4 Principal3-4 Principal4-4 Grosseflute4 Grandgambette4 Tenth3-1/5 Twelfth-1-2-2/3 Twelfth-2-2-2/3 Fifteenth-1-2 Fifteenth-2-2 Fifteenth3-2 Fifteenth-4-2 Sixteenth1-7/9 Seventeenth1-3/ Nineteenth1-1/3 Twenty-first1-1/7 Twenty-second1 Twenty-third8/9 Twenty-fourth4/5 Chorusmixture-X-4 Grandespleinejeux-IX-2-2/3 Furniture-VIII-2 Scharffmixtur-VI-1 Cymbale-V-2/3 Akuta-IV-½ Zimbel-III-1/3 Kuntzzimbel-I-1/6 Great A unison off Great B...enclosed.......duplexed on manuals I&II Geigendiapason16 Bourdon16 Gemshorn16 Diapason5-8 Diapason6-8 Geigen8x Harmonicflute8 Stoppedflute8x Gemshorn8x Gemshornceleste8 Principal5-4 Tibia4 Hohlflute4 Harmonicflute4 Twelfth-3-2-2/3 Fifteenth-5-2 Piccoloharmonique2 Kleinemixtur-VII-1-1/3 Terzzymbel-II-¼ Subtrombone32 Doubletrombone16 Tromba8 Octavetromba4 Tiercemixture-V-IX-1-3/5 Great B unison off Great C....Chorus Reeds...unenclosed..........triplexed on manuals I-II&IV Kontrabombarde32 Kontraposaune16 Posaune8 Posauneinoctavo4 Kornett-IV-V-4 Contrebasson32.....hooded Bombardeharmonique16.....hooded Trompetteharmonique8.....hooded Claironharmonique4.....hooded Clairondoublette2.....hooded Mountedgrandcornet-V-8 Harmoniquesdesanches-V-3-1/5-(flue pipes) Chamade16 Chamade8 Chamade4 Chamade2/32 Tubamagna16.....enclosed in Great-box Tubamirabilis8...enclosed in Great-box Tubaclarion4.....enclosed in Great-box Grosssesquialtera-VII-5-1/3.....enclosed in Great-box Great C unison off Swell A....flues..........duplexed on manuals II&IV Contrefluteconique32 Diapasonconique16 Bourdon16 Violepompose16 Violeceleste16 Chamois16 Chamoisceleste16 Flutedouce16 Fluteceleste16 Stentorphone8 Diapason-1-8 Diapason2-8 Diapason3-8 Montre8 Principal8 Principalconique8 Grosseflute8 Bourdonenbois8 Bourdonceleste8 Flutetraversiere8 Traversiereceleste8 Fluteafuseau8 Fluteacheminee8 Fluteapointe8 Violoncelleceleste8-III-u-#-## Violesdegambe8-III-u-#-## Violesdorchestre8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Salicionalsceleste8-III-u-#-## Eoliennescelestes8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Aetherialcelestes-8-V-u-#-##-b-bb(kleine erzahlers) Flutesdargentcelestes-8-III-u-#-b Flutesdoucecelestes8-II Undamaris8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Grosnasard5-1/3 Stentorphone4 Principal-1-4 Principal2-4 Principal3-4 Prestant4 Octave4 Montreconique4 Flutemagique4 Magiqueceleste4 Fluteharmonique4 Flutedamour4 Flutecruese4 Fluteabiberon4 Gambettecelestes4-II Salicetcelestes4-II Chamoiscelestes4-II Undamaris4-II Grossetierce3-1/5 Twelfth2-2/3 Nasard2-2/3 Fifteenth-1-2 Fifteenth2-2 Octavin2 Doublette2 Spitzprincipal2 Flageoletharmonique2 Blockflote2 Violetta2 Undamaris2-II Seventeenth1-3/5 Tierce1-3/5 Nineteenth1-1/3 Larigot1-1/3 Twenty-first1-1/7 Septieme1-1/7 Twenty-second-1 Fife1 Neuvieme8/9 Oktavterz4/5 GravemixtureVII-4 Mixturedouce-V-2-2/3 Cornetmixture-III-V-2-2/3 StringmixtureV-2-2/3 Fourniture VI-2-2/3 PleinjeuV-2 PetitjeuIV-1-1/3 Kleinemixtur-III-1 Scharf-III-IV-2/3 Cymbale-III-½ Sept-neuf-II-8/9 Jeudeclochette-III-2/5 Tierce-cymbale-II-1/5 Tremolo Swell-A-celestes16 Swell-A-celestes4 Swell B....Major Reeds..........duplexed on manuals III&I Contrepetitbombarde32 Contretrompette16 Premieretrompette8 Deuxiemetrompette8 Troisiemetrompette8 Quintetrompette5-1/3 Clairon4 Tiercetrompette3-1/5 Nasardtrompette2-2/3 Clairondoublette2 GrosseharmoniquesdesanchesVII-5-1/3(flue pipes) Contrabombarde16 Bombarde8 Octavebombarde4 SeptiemecornetVII-2-2/7 Swell B unison Off Swell C....Minor Reeds..........duplexed on manuals III&V Doublecornopean16 Cornopean8 Cornopeanclarion4 Contrahautboy16 Hautboy8 Octavehautboy4 Tiercemixture-III-2-2/3 Doubleclarinet16 Bassethorn8 Cremona4 Voxbass16 Voxalto8 Voxsoprano4 Tremolo Swell C unison off Swell D....Diapasons duplexed from Swell A and enclosed in separate swell-box and controlled by separate swell shoe or master all swells to swell on manual (one) I Diapasonconique16 Stentorphone8 Diapason-1-8 Diapason2-8 Diapason3-8 Montre8 Principal8 Principalconique8 Stentorphone4 Principal-1-4 Principal2-4 Principal3-4 Prestant4 Octave4 Montreconique4 Twelfth2-2/3 Fifteenth-1-2 Fifteenth2-2 Octavin2 Doublette2 Spitzprincipal2 Seventeenth1-3/5 Nineteenth1-1/3 Twenty-first1-1/7 Twenty-second-1 GravemixtureVII-4 Cornetmixture-III-V-2-2/3 Fourniture VI-2-2/3 PleinjeuV-2 Kleinemixtur-III-1 Scharf-III-IV-2/3 Cymbale-III-½ Tremolo Swell E Flutes duplexed flutes from Swell A and enclosed in a separate swell-box controlled by a separate swell shoe or by a master swell via all swells to swell on manual IV Contrefluteconique32 Fluteconique16x Bourdondoux16 Bourdonharmonique16 Flutedouce16 Fluteceleste16 Grosseflute8 Bourdonenbois8 Bourdonceleste8 Flutetraversiere8 Traversiereceleste8 Fluteafuseau8 Fluteacheminee8 Fluteapointe8 Bourdonharmonique8 Bourdonharmoniqueceleste8 Flutesdargentcelestes-8-III-u-#-b Flutesdoucecelestes8-II Undamaris8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Nasardbourdonharmonique5-1/3 Flutemagique4 Magiqueceleste4 Fluteharmonique4 Flutedamour4 Flutecruese4 Fluteabiberon4 Undamaris4-II Tiercebourdonharmonique3-1/5 Nasardbourdonharmonique2-2/3 Flageoletmagique2 Fluteabec2 Undamaris2-II Tiercemagique1-3/5 Larigotmagique1-1/3 Septiememagique1-1/7 Piccolomagique1 Neuviememagique8/9 Tiercemagique4/5 Mixturedouce-V-2-2/3 PetitjeuIV-1-1/3 Sept-neuf-II-8/9 Jeudeclochette-III-2/5 Tierce-cymbale-II-1/5 Regale16 Voixhumaine8 Coranglaisregale4 Tremblant Swell E celestes16-4 Swell F Strings duplexed from Swell A enclosed in separate swell-box and separate swell-shoe or by master all swells to swell on manual V Violepompose16 Violeceleste16 Chamois16 Chamoisceleste16 Chamois8x Chamoisceleste8x Violoncelleceleste8-III-u-#-## Violesdegambe8-III-u-#-## Violesdorchestre8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Salicionalsceleste8-III-u-#-## Eoliennescelestes8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Aetherialcelestes-8-V-u-#-##-b-bb(kleine erzahlers) Gambettecelestes4-II Salicetcelestes4-II Chamoiscelestes4-II Violetta2 StringmixtureV-2-2/3 Tremolo Swell F Celestes 16-4 Swell G duplexed from Swell A on manual V Contrefluteconique32 Diapasonconique16 Bourdon16 Violepompose16 Violeceleste16 Chamois16 Chamoisceleste16 Flutedouce16 Fluteceleste16 Stentorphone8 Diapason-1-8 Diapason2-8 Diapason3-8 Montre8 Principal8 Principalconique8 Grosseflute8 Bourdonenbois8 Bourdonceleste8 Flutetraversiere8 Traversiereceleste8 Fluteafuseau8 Fluteacheminee8 Fluteapointe8 Violoncelleceleste8-III-u-#-## Violesdegambe8-III-u-#-## Violesdorchestre8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Salicionalsceleste8-III-u-#-## Eoliennescelestes8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Aetherialcelestes-8-V-u-#-##-b-bb(kleine erzahlers) Flutesdargentcelestes-8-III-u-#-b Flutesdoucecelestes8-II Undamaris8-V-u-#-##-b-bb Grosnasardharmonique5-1/3 Stentorphone4 Principal-1-4 Principal2-4 Principal3-4 Prestant4 Octave4 Montreconique4 Flutemagique4 Magiqueceleste4 Fluteharmonique4 Flutedamour4 Flutecruese4 Fluteabiberon4 Gambettecelestes4-II Salicetcelestes4-II Chamoiscelestes4-II Undamaris4-II Grossetierceharmonique3-1/5 Twelfth2-2/3 Nasardharmonique2-2/3 Fifteenth-1-2 Fifteenth2-2 Octavin2 Doublette2 Spitzprincipal2 Flageoletharmonique2 Blockflote2 Violetta2 Undamaris2-II Seventeenth1-3/5 Tierceharmonique1-3/5 Nineteenth1-1/3 Larigotharmonique1-1/3 Twenty-first1-1/7 Septiemeharmonique1-1/7 Twenty-second-1 Piccoloharmonique1 Neuviemeharmoniue8/9 Oktavterz4/5 GravemixtureVII-4 Mixturedouce-V-2-2/3 Cornetmixture-III-V-2-2/3 StringmixtureV-2-2/3 Fourniture VI-2-2/3 PleinjeuV-2 PetitjeuIV-1-1/3 Kleinemixtur-III-1 Scharf-III-IV-2/3 Cymbale-III-½ Sept-neuf-II-8/9 Jeudeclochette-III-2/5 Tierce-cymbale-II-1/5 Tremolo Swell-G-celestes16 Swell-G-celestes4 Positive A....flues....unenclosed on manuals I&II Suavial16 Montre8 Principale8 Voceumana8 Kupferpraestant8 Spillflote8 Rohrgedackt8 Quintadena8 Octavmontre4 Principalino4 Octavpraestant4 Koppelflote4 Rohrpommer4 Bordone4 Nason4 Quintaten4 Nachthorn2-2/3 Superdiapason2 Prestant2 Ottava2 Flautodamore2 Spitzterz1-3/5 Quintino1-1/3 Sifflote1-1/3 Flachflote1 Superoktav1 None8/9 Terzflote4/5 Kleinequinta-2/3 Kleinemixtur-V-2-2/3 Kleinescharff-V-1-1/3 Kleinezimbel-IV-2/3 Akuta-III-1/3 Positive A unison off Positive B-enclosed on manuals I&II Quintflote16 Opendiapason8 Traversflote8 Dolkan8 Dolkanceleste8 Spitzflote8 Spitzceleste8 Dulciana8 Undamaris8 Octavediapason4 Doppelspitzflote4 Erzahler4 Ripieno-VI-4 Glockenspiel-II-1/5 Fagotto16 Fagotto8 Fagotto4 Cromorne8 Tremolo Positive B 16 Positive B 4 Cymbelstern Minor Chimes Positive C....Reeds on manuals I&III Bombarda16 Bombarda8 Bombarda4 Dulzian16 Krummhorn8 Musette8 Kopfregal8 Holzregal8 Geigendregal8 Harfenregal8 Rankett8 Schalmei8 Trichterregal4 Kleinekornett-V-8 Tremolo Positive C 16 Positive D....duplexed from Positive A for convenience of registration on manual II Suavial16 Montre8 Principale8 Voceumana8 Kupferpraestant8 Spillflote8 Rohrgedackt8 Quintadena8 Octavmontre4 Principalino4 Octavpraestant4 Koppelflote4 Rohrpommer4 Bordone4 Nason4 Quintaten4 Nachthorn2-2/3 Superdiapason2 Prestant2 Ottava2 Flautodamore2 Spitzterz1-3/5 Quintino1-1/3 Sifflote1-1/3 Flachflote1 Superoktav1 None8/9 Terzflote4/5 Kleinequinta-2/3 Kleinemixtur-V-2-2/3 Kleinescharff-V-1-1/3 Kleinezimbel-IV-2/3 Akuta-III-1/3 Positive D unison off Solo A....flues on manaual IV Doublediapason16...D-L Diapasonmajestico8..II..D-L Flautomirabilis8..II Harmonicflute8 Coveredflute8 Tibiadura8 Tibiaplena8 Gambatuba8 Gambatubaceleste8 Gambasceleste8-III Violoncellocelestes8-III Orchestralvioles8-V Quintediapason5-1/3 Octavemajestico4-II-D-L Doppelflute4 Grossgedeckt4 Hollowflute4 Tibiaclausa4 Viola4 Violaceleste4 Nazardflute2-2/3 Concertpiccolo2 Compensatingmixture-VII-4-D-L Tremolo Solo-A-celestes16 Solo-A-celestes4 Chimes Harp Celesta Major Chimes Solo B....Reeds on manuals IV&V Bassoon16 Orchoboe8 Heckelphone16 Englishhorn8 Frenchhorn16 Frenchhorn8x Huntinghorn8 Flugelhorn16 Waldhorn8 Posthorn16 Posthorn8x Tubahorn8 Tremolo Solo-B-16 Solo-B-4 Harmonictromba16 Harmonictromba8 Harmonictromba4 Mixturemajor-X-16 Solo B unison off Solo C....duplexed from Solo A for convenience of registration on manuals V&VI Doublediapason16...D-L Diapasonmajestico8..II..D-L Flautomirabilis8..II Harmonicflute8 Coveredflute8 Tibiadura8 Tibiaplena8 Gambatuba8 Gambatubaceleste8 Gambasceleste8-III Violoncellocelestes8-III Orchestralvioles8-V Quintediapason5-1/3 Octavemajestico4-II-D-L Doppelflute4 Grossgedeckt4 Hollowflute4 Tibiaclausa4 Viola4 Violaceleste4 Nazardflute2-2/3 Concertpiccolo2 Compensatingmixture-VII-4-D-L Tremolo Solo-C-celestes16 Solo-C-celestes4 Chimes Harp Celesta Major Chimes Clavierdesbombardes.....quadraplexed on manuals IV-V-VI&VII Contreophicleide32 Ophicleidemajeur16 Trompettedebombarde8 Clairondebombarde4 Éclat-X-16 Bombarde unison off Choral division-Triplexed on manauals I-II&III Spiztgeigen8 Spitzgamba8 Spitzgedeckt8 Spitzflote8 Fugara4 Gemshorn2 Kleinemixtur-III-2 Petittrompette8 Clarinet8 Tremolo 16choral 4choral Choral unison off Harp Chimes Glockenstern Pedal.......duplexed on manual VII with extended ranks to form a Resonanace section Grandiopenbasso64x Bourdon64 Openwood32 Openmetal32 Woodviolone32 Metalviolone32 Bourdon32x Gamba32 Dulciana32 Mutation21-1/3 Openwood16x Openbass16 Fluteouverte16 Openmetal16x Opendiapason16 Principale16 Geigen16 Woodviolone16x Metalviolone16x Contrabass16 Contrebasse16 Contrabasso16 Kontrabass16 Tibia16 Majorstoppedbass16 Bourdon16x Bordone16 Softbourdon16 Gamba16x Dulciana16x Mutation12-4/5 Mutation10-2/3x Mutation9-1/7 Mutation7-1/9 Stentorphone8 Diapasonphonon8 Openwood8x Opendiapson8x Principal8 Spitzprincipal8 Geigen8x Fluteouverte8x Melodia8 Pommer8 Bourdon8x Spitzflote8 Gemshorn8 Softflute8 Salicional8 Dulciana8x Solostrings Mutation6-2/5x Mutation5-1/3x Mutation4-4/7x Mutation3-5/9x Choralbass4 Bassdechoral e4 Koralbass4 Fluteharmonique4 Flachflote4 Etherealcelestes-4-II Choralbasset2 Hohlflote2 Gemspfeife1 Obertones64-VII Harmonics32-VIII Cornet16-IV Sesquialtera8-III Mutations4-II Off-unisons2-II Dolcecornet32-IV GrandiorganiripienoX-16 Chorusmixture-IX-10-2/3 Grossmixture-VIII-8 Grandespleinejeux-VII-5-1/3 Grossecymbale-VI-4 Pedalmixtur-V-2-2/3 Pedalscharff-IV-2 Pedalzimbel-III-1-1/3 Pedalakuta-II-1 Pedalterzzymbel-I-4/5 Contrabombardon64 Bombardon32x Contrebombarde32 Kontraholzposaune32 Contrafagotto32 Bombardon16x Bombarde16x Holzposaune16 Fagotto16x Sordun16 Quintebombarde10-2/3 Bombardon8x Trumpet8 Trompette8 Posaune8 Fagotto8x Krummhorn8 Nasardbombarde5-1/3x Trumpetclarion4 Posauneklarine4 Clairon4 Schalmey4 Fagotto4x Zink2 Tremolo Chimes Harp pedal octave to strings Fanfare-octoplexed on all 7 manuals and pedal Buccinebassoprofundo32 Buccinemaximus16 Buccinepontifex8 Buccinepontificale4 GrandoripienoitalianoXXV-32 Corona-octoplexed on all manuals &pedal Tubamaestosa16 Tubamaggiore8 Tubaminore4 Mixturemirabilis-XX-32 Manual to pedal transfers From the great to pedal Principal32 Principal16 Octave16 Tibia16 Firstdiapason16 Seconddiapason16 Geigendiapason16 Bourdon16 Spitzflute16 Gemshorn16 Bombarde32 Bombarde16 Posaune16 Basson32 Basson16 Bombardeharmonique16 Trombone32 Trombone16 no1 Trombone16 no2 Tuba16 Swell to pedal transfers Contrefluteconique32 Diapasonconique16 Fluteconique16 Bourdon16 Violepompose16 Violeceleste16 Chamois16 Chamoisceleste16 Flutedouce16 Fluteceleste16 Contrepetitbombarde32 Contretrompette16 Premieretrompette8 Deuxiemetrompette8 Troisiemetrompette8 Quintetrompette5-1/3 Clairon4 Tiercetrompette3-1/5 Nasardtrompette2-2/3 Clairondoublette2 GrosseharmoniquesdesanchesVII-5-1/3(flue pipes) Contrabombarde16 Bombarde8 Octavebombarde4 SeptiemecornetVII-2-2/7 Doublecornopean16 Cornopean8 Cornopeanclarion4 Contrahautboy16 Hautboy8 Octavehautboy4 Tiercemixture-III-2-2/3 Doubleclarinet16 Bassethorn8 Cremona4 Voxbass16 Voxalto8 Voxsoprano4 Regale16 Voixhumaine8 Coranglaisregale4 Positive to pedal transfers Quintflote16 Suavial16 Bombarda16 Bombarda8 Bombarda4 Fagotto16 Fagotto8 Fagotto4 Dulzian16 Crmorne8 Krummhorn8 Musette8 Kopfregal8 Holzregal8 Geigendregal8 Harfenregal8 Rankett8 Schalmei8 Trichterregal4 Kleinekornett-V-8 Solo to the pedal transfers Doublediapason16...D-L Diapasonmajestico8-II-D-L Flautomirabilis8-II Harmonicflute8 Coveredflute8 Tibiadura8 Tibiaplena8 Gambatuba8 Gambatubaceleste8 Gambasceleste8-III Violncellocelestes8-III Orchestralvioles8-V Quintediapason5-1/3 Octavemajestico4-II-D-L Doppelflute4 Grossgedeckt4 Hollowflute4 Tibiaclausa4 Viola4 Violaceleste4 Nazardflute2-2/3 Concertpiccolo2 Compensatingmixture-VII-4-D-L Bassoon16 Orchoboe8 Heckelphone16 Englishhorn8 Frenchhorn16 Huntinghorn8 Flugelhorn16 Waldhorn8 Posthorn16 Tubahorn8 Tremolo Chimes Harp Harmonictromba16 Harmonictromba8 Harmonictromba4 Mixturemajor-X-16 Clavierdesbombardes to the pedal transfers Contreophicleide32 Ophicleidemajeur16 Trompettedebombarde8 Clairondebombarde4 Éclat-X-16 D-L=double languid all couplers from one department to another would be unison only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 steve You're taking all this way too seriously. No-one is attacking you. Us organists this side of the pond obviously have a sense of humour you guys are not used to. I am still not convinced you need so many stops in your spec. But good luck. If the Vatican go for your spec and this mega-organ does get created well I am sure it will be an exciting instrument to play and will surely rock da house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 !@#$%^&*()_+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Now that makes more sense to me. It looks like you have two contrasting organic styles. Would they be in the same case on the gallery, or two separate ones with space for a choir or orchestra in between. Does it do much doubling up of the existing instruments? Would they be all housed within one console? I'm sure it would make a magnificent sound. Just asking questions, not critisizing you in any way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Goodness me steve, in heaven's name why the hell are you bringing up the war? What is the point of posting an organ specification on a discussion board of an ORGANBUILDER'S WEBSITE, if you are unable to handle people's comments. Your other specifications were ridiculously long, you had everything but the kitchen cinq in there. You brought up the 'English Cathedral Tradition' but this website IS based in the United Kingdom, so you can't blame people for drawing on those experiences within that tradition. Are you a professional organ advisor in your field, or are you as I suspect, a well meaning amateur who loves organs as a hobby? Not that it matters to me, but I thought there were holes in your design and the whole point of this discussion board was to discuss them and have a little humour along the way. So don't give us this balony about the superiority of the States over the British in the two world wars because I find those sort of comments less than tasteful. Thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roffensis Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I was also surprised at the bit about the war, and really we have nothing at all to learn from the USA whatever in terms of organ building. We were building organs before the USA was even born. I well recall one organ by Reuter that I played, with a en chamade at ear level almost, in a pretty small cathedral. The Organist told me he considered the job just wasn't loud enough. It was shattering in the building, and plenty enough. You'll get my point, we don't need huge overblown organs, lest we go doen the Wanamaker and Atlantic city organs which are basically too costly to maintain. A conservative and logical organ carefully placed, with a nave division as required will ever outshine anything else at liturgical level. To return however to the war, yes things may well have been very different, but even so, we have made a pretty good job of ruining many organs in England regardless of outside influence, whether from Europe or the USA, and we have still not learnt to respect that which personally we dislike. As much as I dislike huge overblown specs and batteries of stops that take an hour to look over and find, I also accept that in the USA tradition, it is evidently what people want over there. St Peters would never require a huge organ, as so much is of a accompanimental nature, rather than blasting out FFF. The RC tradition is different form the Anglican for example, in fact today downright boring, since the advent of Vatican II. Whole masses are now totally redundant in the "old" language, and the catholic church cannot give any real lead musically at all now, so that organathon is just never going to happen. Hence my post about 4 foot flutes, I've been there!!!! R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 if u find those realities uncouth then u r shutting ur eyes to the truth the usa bailed ur miserable hides from certain defeat at the hands of wilhelm and hitler buckingham would be one of adolfs many palaces like saddam had all over so kindly get off ur soap box and face the truth that britain was doomed otherwise to extinction had it not been for eisenhower and d-day and roosevelt as for tradition its ok for u we r not obligated to uphold it u r for a small entity u have way too many cathedrals u got caught up in a midevil theological contest now u r stuck with buildings that r falling apart and cant be heated or cooled to any level of comfort the boys choir traditions r virtually extinct time to let go of useless traditions and come on board the 21st century or risk becoming completely an anachronism <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I find this prejudiced and racial post unacceptable. I am sure many Americans would also find these comments from a fellow countryman unacceptable. The points of view in it are misinformed, biased and untrue. I do not think they have any place on this forum. Personally, I have very rapidly lost any respect and trust in the member who posted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Personally I don't see the point in revising St. Peter's organ. As others have said, the Catholic musical tradition is much changed since Vatican II, and, particularly in Italy, the organ is really only used to accompany the congregation, who tend to sing everything very slowly, in a random time signature and to their own tune, so the only real purpose for the organ is to give a starting note and to indicate that they ought to be singing now. At least, that was my experience of about 10 years ago when I lived over there. I went to a few services in St. Peter's, and to be honest, my overall impression was that music was an irrelevance. The funniest/saddest thing I saw though, was people SMOKING in the "queue" for communion. Not that the word queuing has much relevance to what actually happens. Does anyone know anything about the organ in the abbey at Montecassino? I played it once, but can't for the life of me remember who it was by... re: Steve's comments - no criticism levelled at anyone here - it reminds me of the old Usenet "law": 1. If more than one English person is in a discussion, it will degenerate into Monty Python jokes 2. If more than one American is in a discussion, it will end up on gun control 3. If there are both English and Americans, it will end up discussing who saved who's butt in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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