Guest stevecbournias Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 2m liturgical GREAT OPENDIAPASON8 STOPPEDDIAPASON8 GEMSHORN8 DULCIANA8 PRINCIPAL4 COPPELFLUTE4 FIFTEENTH2 MIXTURE-III-1-1/3 TRUMPET8 SWELL BOURDON16 VIOLA8 CELESTE8 CHIMNEYFLUTE8 PRESTANT4 HARMONICSTOPPEDFLUTE4 NAZARD2-2/3 NIGHTHORN2 TIERCE1-3/5 FURNITURE-III-2 CONTRAHAUTBOY16 HARMONICTRUMPET8 HAUTBOY8-EXT PEDAL MAJORBASS16 BOURDON16-SWELL PRINCIPAL8 BOURDON8-SWELL FIFTEENTH4 TROMBONE16-EXT GREAT HAUTBOY16-SWELL TRUMPET8-GREAT <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ummmmm.... I make that thirty speaking stops. My apologies, I will be more clear. No duplexing or extension is allowed. The action is to be entirely mechanical. Oh, and no Dulcianas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 em skinner taught the duplex concept to increase flexibility i have used it to great advantage thus u can use stops from the same section to accompany stops from that section As an organist, I would therefore worry about balance. I have never wished to accompany a solo stop on one division with another stop on the same division. If, for example, both stops are on the Swell Organ, it will be impossible to introduce crescendi or diminuendi without likewise affecting the accompaniment. would u level that critique against the willis-mander at st pauls how many diapasons does that organ boast how many principals,trumpets,mixtures But none of these stops are either extended or duplexed from one department to another. Having played this wonderful organ, the independence of the ranks, in practice, affords a far greater degree of flexibilty than the perceived merits of apparently borrowing everything everywhere. You have also failed to allow for the situation of this unique instrument. Since several sections are distributed in various parts of the building, it is necessary to provide separate choruses, with separate ranks of pipes. Duplexing stops on this instrument would be about as useful as purchasing a chocolate teapot. For example, in St. Paul's Cathedral, litlle purpose would be served by duplexing the GO Open Diapason I to the fifth clavier, since the pipes for these sections are approximately fifty to eighty feet apart. r u willing to set a limit on a design for the vatican organ Yes - given the use which is made of the present instrument (which may be ascertained by perusing some of the posts of other contributors to this thread), I would estimate that a similar-sized instrument to that which is actually in situ. In other words, a moderate three-clavier organ, with approximately fifty speaking stops. would u submit ur design for the vatican organ and open it up for critique If I thought that there was any point! However, since, apparently if it is not opera (or pasta) the Italians are not interested, I fear that any instrument larger than the existing organ would be poinltless. It would simply gather dust in the transept (or wherever it was sited) and just serve to remind the Italians how many operas they could have seen, or how much pasta they could have eaten, if they had not wasted all those Lire on an enormous organ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 sorryu need to go to a so-called boutique builder i do not feel i am a good stewart if i sell a museum piece to a congreagation instead of a modern pipe organ was nice knowing u tho hope u find someone to buy ur mechanical action coz i will have nothing to do with it it belongs in the museum along with other anachronisms byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting - you have just consigned many new instruments in this country to the metaphorical scrap-heap. Clearly you would be surprised to know that there are several such instruments built each year in this country. I also recall that our organ builders have exported at least two rather good instruments to your country. St. Ignatius Loyola, NYC (Mander: four claviers) and Peachtree Road Methodist (also Mander: four claviers). As far as I can remember, they both had mechanical action. As far as I can remember, many of your fellow-countrymen were deeply impressed with them. Speaking as a professional organist of wide experience, I would not wish even to play a hymn on the over-inflated behemoths of which you are a proponent. In my view, it is these instruments which are the dinosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 dear readers of the nuts and bolts forum i am accustomed to working with organs of generous resources tonally below is a 3 manual liturgical and recital capable organ that would fit usa requirements for so-called ecclectic or american classic purposes great partially independently expressive* doublegeigen16x principal I 8 principal II 8* geigen8* fluteoktaviante8* bordun8* violadagamba8* octav I 4 octav II 4* koppelflote4* zauberflote4* superoctav I 2 superoctav II 2 blockflote2 sesquialter-ii-2-2/3 mixtur-iv-vi-1-1/3 kleinemixtur-iv-1* scharf-iv-2/3 contrabombarde16* bombardegrande8* clairongrande4* mountedcornet-v-8-tf tremolo 16-4-u chimes* harp* swell bourdon16 viole16x montre8 rohrflote8 bourdon8X bourdonceleste8tc harmonicflute8 harmonicceleste8tc viole8 violeceleste8cc aeoline8 aeolineceleste8cc kleineerzahler8-ii fluteceleste8-ii prestant4 fluteharmonique4 cordenuit4 violescelestes4-iix aeolinescelestes4-iix kleineerzahlers4-iix flutescelestes4-iix undamaris4-ii nasard2-2/3 octavin2 spillflote2 tierce1-3/5 nasard1-1/3x octavin1x petitjeu-iv-1-1/3 cymbale-ii-1/3 petitbombarde16 contrehautbois16x trompette8 petitbombarde8x hautbois8 coranglais8 voixhumaine8 clairon4 hautboisoctaviante4x cornet-v-selective tremolo chimes-gt harp-gt 16-4-u choral spitzprincipal8 spitzgedeckt8 spitzgamba8 spitzceleste8 fugaragrosso4 spitzflote4 waldflote2 petitfourniture-iii-2 cromorne8 petittrompette8 tremolo harp-gt celesta chimes glockenstern 16-4-u positiv suavial8 quintflote8 principal4 nason4 gemshorn2 quintino1-1/3 sifflote1 terzlein4/5 zimbel-iii-2/3 dulzian16 kopfregal8 musette4 regal2 tremolo 16-4-u fanfare quadraplexed on all manuals and pedal festivaltrompette16tc-x festivaltrompette8 festivaltrompette4x pedal doublegeigen32x contrabourdon32x principal16 contrabass16 openwood16 geigen16-gt bourdon16 softbourdon16-sw viole16-sw dulciana16 mutation10-2/3 octave8 spitzflote8 pommer8 bourdon8x softbourdon-sw violes8-sw mutation5-1/3x koralbass4 flachflote4 softbourdon4-sw koralbassett2x hohlflote2 gemspfeife1 kornett32-iv mixtur-iv-2-2/3 kontrabombarde32x bombarde16-gt posaune16 petitbombarde16-sw hautbois16-sw dulzian16-pos posaune8x bombarde8-gt hautbois8-sw cromorne8-ch posaune4x bombarde4-gt schalmey4 zink2 tremolo 10-2/3 8 u chimes-gt <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are welcome to this - I would have little use for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 2m liturgical GREAT OPENDIAPASON8 STOPPEDDIAPASON8 GEMSHORN8 DULCIANA8 PRINCIPAL4 COPPELFLUTE4 FIFTEENTH2 MIXTURE-III-1-1/3 TRUMPET8 SWELL BOURDON16 VIOLA8 CELESTE8 CHIMNEYFLUTE8 PRESTANT4 HARMONICSTOPPEDFLUTE4 NAZARD2-2/3 NIGHTHORN2 TIERCE1-3/5 FURNITURE-III-2 CONTRAHAUTBOY16 HARMONICTRUMPET8 HAUTBOY8-EXT PEDAL MAJORBASS16 BOURDON16-SWELL PRINCIPAL8 BOURDON8-SWELL FIFTEENTH4 TROMBONE16-EXT GREAT HAUTBOY16-SWELL TRUMPET8-GREAT <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMHO a sensible scheme, with which I can find little fault. Thankyou, Steve. Within the number of ranks it is difficult to think of much improvement. If this were to be built for me, I would want to make sure that the Viola is pretty substantial - I don't mind the Celeste rank (similarly) having to be a biggish scale and tone. I happen to like big celestes, but the point is, the Viola and the Chimney Flute together have to make a firm basis for a decent chorus. After that, perhaps I miss a Great Twelfth; however, if one were adding further ranks at all, my first extra would have to be a Pedal 4' Flute - especially useful for the playing of trios. I support the inclusion of the Great Dulciana - despite the fact that some on this site don't see the point of them! Accompaniment of voices (or solo stops on the other manual) can justify this inclusion - maybe something with a little more character might be an small improvement - make it a Dolcan or a Salicional perhaps? Some years ago there was a common drive over here to remove Harmonic Flutes which had been (for quite a time) traditional on English Great organs. In some ways, I would find a Harmonic Fluite more useful than a Coppel Flute - particularly if the rank were to be Harmonic from tenor C - there are so many luscious solos for such a stop (played an octave down). I agree that its use in chorus and combination is more important, and obviously you need to have a decently voiced rank on not too high a pressure. I take it that this is a given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevecbournias Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 2m liturgical GREAT OPENDIAPASON8 STOPPEDDIAPASON8 GEMSHORN8 DULCIANA8 PRINCIPAL4 COPPELFLUTE4 FIFTEENTH2 MIXTURE-III-1-1/3 TRUMPET8 SWELL BOURDON16 VIOLA8 CELESTE8 CHIMNEYFLUTE8 PRESTANT4 HARMONICSTOPPEDFLUTE4 NAZARD2-2/3 NIGHTHORN2 TIERCE1-3/5 FURNITURE-III-2 CONTRAHAUTBOY16 HARMONICTRUMPET8 HAUTBOY8-EXT PEDAL MAJORBASS16 BOURDON16-SWELL PRINCIPAL8 BOURDON8-SWELL FIFTEENTH4 TROMBONE16-EXT GREAT HAUTBOY16-SWELL TRUMPET8-GREAT <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it is certainly better - but it is also ten stops larger than the twenty which I had specified. The GO is quite good - my own preference is for a Gamba, as opposed to a Gemshorn. I would also agree with Paul regarding the Harmonic Flute - a most useful stop. I would, in preference, have placed the Bourdon on the GO - and had a separate rank for the Pedal stop. I would also wish for a (Separate) Open Diapason 8p on the Swell (in place of the Bourdon). I include my own re-working of this scheme: Sub Bourdon (Emp.) 32 Open Diapason (M) 16 Bourdon 16 Principal 8 Stopped Flute (Emp.) 8 Fifteenth 4 Posaune (M) 16 Shawm 4 GO to Pedal Swell to Pedal GO Quintatön 16 Open Diapason 8 Rohr Flöte 8 Gamba 8 Octave 4 Harmonic Flute 4 Fifteenth 2 Mixture (19-22-26-29) IV Trumpet 8 Swell to GO SWELL ORGAN Open Diapason 8 Flauto Traverso 8 Viole de Gambe 8 Voix Céleste (CC) 8 Principal 4 Wald Flöte 4 Flageolet 2 Mixture (15-19-22-26) IV Double Trumpet 16 Hautbois 8 Cornopean 8 Clarion 4 Tremulant Incidentally, I have also mentioned that my favourite instrument is the large C-C at N.-D. de Paris. I do not have time to count the ranks now, but I estimate that it is approximately one hundred and fifty. However, the instrument speaks, as it were, with a single personality. There is, as far as I know, absolutely no duplexing or extension anywhere - not even on the Pédale Orgue. Now that is a fantastic instrument. As you are fond of saying - it has to be heard live really to appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 NEW CONCEPT ORGAN FOR ST. PETE’S, THE VATICANT The basic concept for this organ is to do away all the manuals except for one so the space saved can be used to house as many stop tabs as possible. The manual will be divided and there will be eight expression pedals with two crescendo pedals, one to control the stop and the other to automate the thurible.. emMANUEL 64 Gravissimaria 32 Open Toilet 32 Closed Toilet 16 Bourdon the Ridiculous 8 Open Pope Pius 1 8 Open Pope Pius II 8 Open Pope Pius III 8 Open Pope Pius IV 8 Open Pope Pius V 8 Open Pope Pius VI 8 Open Pope Pius XXXI 5 1/3 Squinted John-Paiul 4 Half-arsed Fundie Gay Haters 4 Pretense 4 Voix Angelica 4 Voix Celestes 4 Voix Loud Touriissimo 2 2/3 & 2 Piccolot a Nasal III Mixture (popes, tarts, altar-boys) Pedal Pulldowns Pedal Pullups (quick, someones knocking on the vestry door) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Minton Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 NEW CONCEPT ORGAN FORST. PETE’S, THE VATICANT The basic concept for this organ is to do away all the manuals except for one so the space saved can be used to house as many stop tabs as possible. The manual will be divided and there will be eight expression pedals with two crescendo pedals, one to control the stop and the other to automate the thurible.. emMANUEL 64 Gravissimaria 32 Open Toilet 32 Closed Toilet 16 Bourdon the Ridiculous 8 Open Pope Pius 1 8 Open Pope Pius II 8 Open Pope Pius III 8 Open Pope Pius IV 8 Open Pope Pius V 8 Open Pope Pius VI 8 Open Pope Pius XXXI 5 1/3 Squinted John-Paiul 4 Half-arsed Fundie Gay Haters 4 Pretense 4 Voix Angelica 4 Voix Celestes 4 Voix Loud Touriissimo 2 2/3 & 2 Piccolot a Nasal III Mixture (popes, tarts, altar-boys) Pedal Pulldowns Pedal Pullups (quick, someones knocking on the vestry door) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> FINALLY -- A USEFUL Vatican Specification!!!!!!!!!! (only kidding!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 After looking through his recent posts, I'm changing my opinion of Steve C Bournias. I think he's got a lot more than vast schemes to offer and I read what he has to say more assidiously and with a lot more humour, understanding and tolerance. Steve: I've had another look through your scheme. It's good to have an "America Mega Organ Scheme" for the Vatican at last and yours is a fine scheme. I'm sure it's just an oversight but it seems to be missing a 14th 2 2/7 on Great A. If you're going to a sixteenth 1 7/9 then I think it should have one.... Sorry. My major gripe would be using it. I don't think organists would get much time to acclimatise to it in practice and discover the wealth of sound and colour it could provide. I doubt that even a titulare of the calibre of Cochereau in post for many years would have discovered even a fraction of the sounds it could give. If I were visiting this organ to play it in anger, I would probably have enough time to learn which swell pedals to use, stick to the divisional pistons, give a blast on the rather excitingly named stops of the fanfare division and hope for the best. It would have to be a "smash and grab" and I would leave thinking I hadn't really used my time there well or really got to understand the organ. I probably wouldn't really have time to think about which one of the three swell 2' flutes would be best to use - and when would I use the other two instead? It seems a bit of a waste, really. I haven't been to the Vatican so I don't feel qualified to dream up my own spec for it. For now, I would simply have the choir organ at Alkmaar installed and let people marvel that something so small and beautiful can produce so much noise. Seeing for the recent love of specifications, here is its stop list: Hoofdwerk (FGA - g''a'') Doof 8 I-II Octaaf Doof 4 I-III Mixtuur II-VI Scharp III-VI Trompet 8 (on the bovenwerk chest, played from the Hoofdwerk keys) Holpyp 8 Openfluyt 4 Sufflet 1 1/3 Borstwerk (FGA - g''a'') Quintadena 8 Fluyt 4 Octaaf 2 Super Octaaf 1 I-II Pedal (FGA- c) Trompet 8 Borstwerk to Hoofdwerk - by 2 small brass knobs between the keyboards (not to be operated while playing the organ) Hoofdwerk to Pedal Tremulant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yfd Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Saint Pierre Basilique Grand Choeur-manual I Principal32 Montre16 Chamois16 Nasard10-2/3 Montre8 Principal8 Bourdon8 Flute8 Tierce6-2/5 Quinte5-1/3 Prestant4 Octave4 Fourniture-IX Cymbale-VII Tubamagna16 Trompette8 Clairon4 Chamade8 Octaves Graves Grand Orgue-manual II Violon-basse32 Principal16 Bourdon16 Montre8 Diapason8 Bourdon8 Fluteharmonique8 Violedegambe8 Nasard5-1/3 Prestant4 Octave4 Flute4 Cordenuit4 Tierce3-1/5 Doublette2 Fourniture-VII Cymbale-V Bombarde16 Basson16 Trompette8 Basson8 Clairon4 Soprano4 Grandcornet-V Chamade8 Chamade4 Octavesgraves Recit Expressif-manual III Gambe32 Diapasonconique16 Bourdondoux16 Diapason8 Montreconique8 Bourdon8 Flutetraversiere8 Violoncelle8 Voixceleste8 Eolienneceleste8-II Fluteceleste8-II Prestant4 Fluteharmonique4 Undamaris4-II Tierce3-1/5 Nasard2-2/3 Doublette2 Octavin2 Petittierce1-3/5 Pleinjeu-VI Cymbale-IV Basson32 Bombarde16 Trompette8 Hautbois8 Corharmonie8 Clarinette8 Voixhumaine8 Clairon4 Tremblant Octavesgraves Positif Expressif-manual IV Violonconique16 Quintaton16 Montre8 Bourdon8 Dessusdeflute8 Salicional8 Undamaris8 Dulciane8 Voixangelique8 Voixseraphique8 Prestant4 Fluteabec4 Douceceleste4-II Nasardharmonique2-2/3 Piccoloharmonique2 Tierceharmonique1-3/5 Larigotharmonique1-1/3 Septiemeharmonique1-1/7 Flageoletharmonique1 Neuviemeharmonique8/9 Onzeimemeharmonique8/11 PetitJeu-IV Cymbale-III Jeudeclochette-II Ranquette16 Trompette8 Cromorne8 Chalumeau4 Tremblant Octavesgraves Clavierdesbombardes-manual V Quintaton32 Montre16 Montre8 Quinte5-1/3 Prestant4 Tierce3-1/5 Septieme2-2/7 Neuvieme1-7/9 Onzeime8/11 Grandpleinjeu-IX Eclat-VIII Bombarde16 Trompetteharmonique8 Claironharmonique4 Chamade16 Chamade8 Chamade4 Buccine Pontificale 8....action electrique Octavesgraves Solo Expressif-manual VI Bourdon32 Diapason-basse16 Diapasonmajeur8 Flutemajeurharmonique Bourdonharmonique8 Gambemajeur8 Majeurceleste8 Chordesdorchestre8-V Octavemajeur4 Grosseflute4 Flutemagique4 Piccolodconcert2 Grandfourniture-VIII Contretrombone16 Coranglais16 Trombonedorchestre8 Corfrancaise8 Basson-hautbois8 Hautboisdorchestre8 Cordebassette8 Musette8 Baryton8 Clairondorchestre4 Tubamajeur8....action electrique Trompettemilitaire8....action electrique Harmoniquesdesanches-VII Tremblant Octavesgrave Claoches....action electrique Cloachettes....action electrique Harpeseraphique....action electrique Choeur Expressif&ChordesdeVioles Expressif-manual VII Violes16-II Principalconique8 Violesdiapasons8-III Gambesconique8-III Violesdamour8-III Bourdonconique8 Melodie8 Fluteceleste8 Chamois8-III Cornodolce8-II Undamaris8-III Flutedargentceleste8-II Flutemineurceleste8-II Fugara4 Violes4-II Fluteacheminee4 Petitfourniture-III Violemixture-V Voixbasse16 Voixalto8 Voixsoprano4 Tremblant Octavesgrave Pedale Fluteconique64...BBBBB/A#A#A#A#A#/AAAAA Contrebasse32 Contreflute32 Grossequinte21-1/3 Grosseflute16 Fluteouverte16 Montre16 Principal16 Diapason16 Violon16 Soubasse16 Bourdon16 Bourdondoux16 Quintaton16 Gambe16 Dulciane16 Nasard10-2/3 Prestant8 Violoncelle8 Flute8 Bourdon8 Tierce6-2/5 Septieme4-4/7 Neuvieme3-5/9 Onzeieme3-3/11 Bassedechorale4 Fluteapointe4 Fluteharmonique4 Basettedechorale2 Flutecruese2 Chamois1 Harmoniquesgrave64-IV Bassedecornet32-IV Sesquialterdouce-IV-16 Fourniture-VII Cymbale-V Trompettebasse64.....BBBBB/A#A#A#A#A#/AAAAA Contrebombarde32 Bombarde16 Ophicleide16 Trombone16 Basson16 Regale16 Trompette8 Basson8 Cromorne8 Clairon4 Soprano4 Regale4 Cinq2 Chamade16 Chamade8 Chamade4 Cornet-V -16' action barker=west gallery console action electrique=main floor console Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprondel Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 By the way, and in order to add a little to this absurd thread, I visited Rome after Christmas 2004, and happened to visit St. Peter's Basilica just when there was a service in the quire, with organ accompaniment. It was a strange effect to stroll down the vast nave, East to West, with the higher frequencies steadily losing in power. When I arrived at the West end, the only music left to hear was the bass line. So, if I was to draw up a stoplist for an organ there, it would have plenty of reed and mixture tone, along with doubled or tripled 4-foot principals in some divisions for a good singing line in the choruses. The space would be great for one or several truly grand Cornets of huge scale, and for bright and articulate reed choruses (not in the American manner, more along French classical lines). I would try to provide variety in this department -- colourful, beaming solo voices, bright ensembles -- rather than in the basses. 16-foot and 32-foot tone, in such a space, just works fine by itself, be it a Violone or an Open Wood. Variety in tone must take place above that level. And there are some things you usually don't put into a stoplist. E. g., the scaling should be done with a good deal of treble ascendancy; the departments providing choral and congregation accompaniment should be placed low and must be provided with a type of casing that projects the sound well towards people. Shallow cases, overhanging roofs, that sort of thing. But let's be honest, this place was not intended to house an organ in the first place. Best, Friedrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 GREAT MONTRE32 DIAPASON16 PRINCIPAL16 MONTRE16 BOURDON16 GEMSHORN16 DIAPASON8 PRINCIPAL8 MONTRE8 GEIGEN8 DOPPELOFFENFLOTE8 BOURDON8 HARMONICFLUTE8 CLARIBEL8 GAMBA8 SPITZFLOTE8 ERZAHLER8 FIFTH5-1/3 EIGHTH4 PRINCIPAL4 PRESTANT4 DIAPASONCONIQUE4 FLUTEOUVERTE4 FLUTECOUVERTE4 GEMSHORN4 GAMBETTE4 TENTH3-1/5 TWELFTH2-2/3 FIFTEENTH2 SUPEROCTAVE2 BLOCKFLOTE2 FLAGEOLETHARMONIQUE2 SEVENTEENTH1-3/5 NINETEENTH1-1/3 TWENTY-SECOND1 FULLMIXTURE-V-4 GRANDFOURNITIURE-V-2-2/3 PLEINJEU-V-2 FOURNITURE-V-1-1/3 SMALLMIXTURE-IV-1 CYMBALE-IV-2/3 BOMBARDE16 BOMBARDE8 BOMBARDE4 CORNETSUB-V-16series CORNET-V-unison-series CHAMADE16 CHAMADE8 CHAMADE4 CHAMADE2/32 great unison Sorry, folks: as far as I am concerned, this small excerpt of a recent posting is sufficient to completely convince me: yfd absolutely must be Steve Bournias. Dear yfd - your first post claimed you don't know much about organs.... it was an interesting first posting, very naive and purposefully tentative. Now (a mere three weeks and handful of postings later) you are drawing up cloned copies of the great Steve C. B's 'no limits - unlimited budget and space' specs. 1. Are you for real? If so, what is all this 'I don't know much about organs' spiel? or 2. If you're actually Steve, by posting from someone else's e-mail address under an alias you are attempting to bypass the moderators on this site who are only trying to manage this site for the benefit of all readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yes - if indeed you are Steve Bournias and using another identity, your apparent disingenuousness does not deceive. I am beginning to wonder why you bother, Mr, Bournias. Your schemes appear to me to lack restraint and real understanding. As I have said before, there is little art or skill involved in drawing-up enormous schemes such as your examples. All one need do is to include one of just about every stop which can readily be recalled - preferably including several at a variety of pitches, give it a grand-sounding name and - voila! you have an enormous organ.... Speaking for myself, I must confess that I find it all rather boring. Your schemes look, as Paul has said, like clones one from another (incidentally, I do not know if you know, but Dolly the Sheep died a while ago). It seems to me as if your schemes might have died too. Certainly they have lost any inventiveness which they might once have possessed. For anyone who thinks I may be being unfair to Mr. Bournias, that is your prerogative - I understand - but I really am tired of this cycle of bombardment with large and badly thought-out schemes, followed by emotional diatribes directed at any who dare to criticise any aspect of the schemes - which are then followed by a vague apology or 'heartfelt thanks' to anyone who generously offers an olive-branch, as it were. OK, I have now got that off my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 yfd absolutely must be Steve Bournias.Of course he is, Paul. As I hinted in another post, yfd stands for "Youngstown Fire Department" (in Ohio, of course), another of Mr Bournias's interests; he is (or was) active in their forum. In my opinion, I think it is pretty clear that Mr B is a troll who, for reasons of his own, has some sort of grudge against either English organs or Manders in particular and is deliberately trying to disrupt the forum (which is what trolls do). His habit of deleting his posts, thus rendering the threads virtually unreadable, is proof of that. It is certainly a great discourtesy to his hosts. The best way - in fact the only way - to deal with trolls is to ignore them entirely (which in future I shall be doing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 A good idea, Vox Humana - I think that I shall do the same. Having said that, if Steve Bournias is going to become a kind of human chameleon, it may prove to be rather tricky - probably increasing exponentially, depending on the number of alternative identites he chooses to adopt. ....Which set me wondering idly about what would happen if one were to place a live chameleon on a tartan rug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Well, I guess it will only be tricky if he behaves himself - the mega specs are a dead giveaway! I think the mods have the means to ban individual ISPs and I would imagine he'll run out of alternatives eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 ... I think the mods have the means to ban individual ISPs and I would imagine he'll run out of alternatives eventually. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Only when he also runs out of Internet Cafés.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubular_pneumatic Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Good Morning, I have read some of the comments here with interest as they relate to the duplexing and/or borrowing of stops around the organ. I am sympathetic with the Skinner ideal of an "augmented pedal", which makes use of the manual doubles and has dedicated ranks that are unified at 16' and 8'. My sense is that there is a great variety of suitable bass available thanks to this system that would otherwise be somewhat hindered by simple coupling, should the "donor" manual in question be required for other duties. Although it is certainly desirable to have an independent 8' and 4', particularly for a Cantus Firmus tone, I have not yet heard Pedal upperwork that I care for here in the States. My impression is that the Pedal couplers allow the character of the desired manual to be added to the Pedal with balance, whereas the sort of upperwork I find here tends to be out-of-balance. As far as duplexing goes, it can be rather useful in situations where such a division has more than one solo reed or celeste perhaps. The Newberry Organ at Woolsey Hall, Yale has two entirely duplexed divisions; one being the Orchestral and the other the Echo. The Orchestral is available on the Swell and Choir manuals in completely independent fashion, allowing for instance the Orchestral Oboe and Corno di Bassetto to dialogue. The Echo is available on the Great and Solo manuals to provide flexibility as to what it can be played against. It is rather interesting that in the specification for one of our local instruments here in Connecticut, a Moller instrument by Richard Whitelegg, there are several instances of borrowing and even unification; and yet the instrument more-or-less behaves as a normal "straight" organ would be expected to. Just off the top of my head I can think of the following examples: 1. The Great Double is offered at 4' pitch as an alternative to the 4' Principal 2. The Swell 16' reed is offered at 4' pitch to great effect 3. The Choir Dulciana <g>, is quite heavily unified from 4' to 1 3/5' (I'm not sure why) 4. The Great Tromba, which is enclosed in the Choir box, is duplexed with the Choir Certainly in an ideal world such things would not be necessary, however, a clever and tasteful organ builder can use borrowing and duplexing to great effect. Best Regards, Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Dear Nathan, I would welcome you to this board as a co-contributor, but after our recent experience, I need to ask on behalf of friends and colleagues: Are you even slightly from Ohio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I think we may be safe, Paul! There are two other States in-between: New Jersey and Pennsylvania. I would guess that the State of Connecticut is roughly five hundred miles from Ohio.... Just as long as Nathan does not post schemes for enormous instruments.... ....Apart from that, I would also like to welcome him to this board! Of course, if Nathan has relatives in Ohio.... Just kidding. Welcome, Nathan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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