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Mander Organs

St Peter's Basilica


Guest stevecbournias

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Guest Lee Blick

OK. Just a few thoughts:

 

A huge organ like that would probably take forever to tune and be difficult to keep in tune because of the colossal size of the building. It would be like painting the Forth Bridge. Once you got right to the end, you would have to start again at the other end! If you are not careful it could end up sounding like one huge harmonium.

 

Could a place like the Vatican find justification to finance a huge team required to maintain such a large instrument?

 

Would the congregational and liturgical requirements be better served with a more modest West End section but with additional smaller departments throughout the length of the building to assist with congregational singing?

 

Is there musical and technical integrity with the design? Will it be a well proportioned, economical design or are there too many duplications? Would one stop serve the same purpose instead of a row of ten?

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Guest Lee Blick

In this case, the organ would be installed in an existing building. The questions I was asking would be ones organ builders / organists / church authorities would be asking.

 

I know this is fantasy organ design, so I deliberately didn't seek to criticise your efforts. I was making some more general comments. I do like your design though. It is big and brash, certainly a statement that screams "this is an organ fit for largest religious edifice on the planet."

 

If this design was ever to come to fuition it would definately show what the Pontiff's priorities are. The ears of the poor in Rome would prick up as they hear such wonderful music in the distance. As these paupers poked their head round the great west door of St. Peter's, their eyes would widen in awe at the shiny, glistening sight and the wonderous amazing sounds at such intensity never heard before in a building. And these sad, pathetic homeless beings will realise their lot is not so bad after all. These magnificent rolls of tin and beautifully crafted wooden branches will be their home, their shelter. The musical sounds rolling around the Basilica will be their Walkman, their Radio, if only for a few hours....

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"Well," I thought, "this is certainly a catholic instrument."

 

On re-reading the specification between lunch and dinner, I realised that I had made a terrible mistake.

 

There I was, skipping around the front room to music played by an Irish band, "Piccoloing ma Gigue" wonderfully.

 

It seemed that the organ stop was some Harry Potteresque 'Picollo Magique'....a sort of organist's Nimbus 2000 presumably.

 

I had no idea that there were quite so many organ-stops in existence, in so many diferent languages and potentially under one roof.

 

Just one small gripe. With so many ranks of everything, why does the organ need compensating Mixtures?

 

Are you expecting problems?

 

:rolleyes:

 

MM

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Guest Lee Blick
There I was, skipping around the front room to music played by an Irish band, "Piccoloing ma Gigue" wonderfully.

 

Sounds like what that 'Ray Cooney' character is Little Britain might say :rolleyes:

 

  'Picollo Magique' '2ft zauberflute.'

 

Sometimes organbuilders do seem to label some stops with fancy names for quite ordinary ranks. In the church where I grew up we had a 'flute couverte', 'flute harmonique', 'cor harmonique'. I am sure there even worse fancy names about...

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Guest Lee Blick
I understand St Peter's has a reverberation time of 7 seconds. Given that lower frequencies take longer to decay than higher ones, are all those manual 32s going to allow us actually to hear any music?

 

By installing more high pressure Open Diapasons and batteries of Tuba Magna Humungas of course! :rolleyes:

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Guest Roffensis

St Peter's prob has more than 7 seconds, but no would ever know because it's either full of absorbant people, and anyway there is nothing in there to get the building going.

The organ would shine in the church like a star, it would lead people heavenward to higher things, to glories above, reincarnated on earth made to look and sound like an organ while actually being something enterely different, but to our mere mortal senses, changed. The rolls of tin would reflect the papal glory in every facet of colour and hue, and the wood would remind us of the cross. It all makes so much sense. It would bring the very heathen to his knees, and yes, there would be CDs. Lots of them. Probably one a week, the demand would be so high. The church would have to doubled in size to accomodate the throngs. An essential stop in any catholic church is of course the 4 foot flute, and I do think that a bombarde division exclusively of 4 foot flutes would have to be the priority. B);)

It wont happen! One four foot is enough at St Peters, B)

R

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Thank God that spec has disappered. I lost the will to live when I saw it. Couldn't be asked to read through it.

 

Did it have a 64' by any chance? I can't see the point in the things. They do nothing in the bottom octave (except sound like a helicopter in the distance) and take away the fun of the bottom octave of the 32 in the bottom octave by having the 32 in the middle octave.

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narrow-minded british stuffed shirt

 

lets see ur vatican spec

 

all 95 of ur posts on this forum wreak of the dream world of academia u live in

 

ur conservatism is so apalling that u must have formaldahyde instead of red blood in ur system

 

all u do is come on here to slam others

 

u have nothing positive to offer, only negative coz u fancy urself  a guru of organ matters and i doubt u know very much at all

Pot calling kettle black.

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Just so that this thread can continue to make some sort of sense, here again is the spec that Steve posted:

 

Over many years various plans have been written for a grand organ for the basilica. So far nothing. That does not mean it will never happen. It just means it hasn't happened yet. So, I wish to throw into the ring my own plan for the west end along with Cavaille-coll, Mutin, Willis III and any others. I would have Ruffati supervise, and numerous builders come together to build this scheme into a real organ.

 

St peters basilica grand west end gallery organ vaticano(if the gallery as pictured in audsleys book isnt big enuff for this organ we will make a bigger gallery ...all we need is space and money and the earth is full of both!!!!!) C-C and King Henry eat ur hearts out!

 

Great A....flue work....unenclosed.....duplexed on manuals II&IV

Principal32

Octave16

Firstdiapason16

Seconddiapason16

Violonediapason16

Tibia16

Spitzflute16

Mutation10-2/3

Stentordiapason8

Majordiapason8

Diapason-1-8

Diapason2-8

Diapason3-8

Diapason4-8

Majorflute8

Grossdoppelflote

Tibia8x

Stoppeddiapason8

Harmonicclaribel8

Grandgamba8

Fifth5-1/3

Stentoroctave4

Majoroctave4

Principal-1-4

Principal2-4

Principal3-4

Principal4-4

Grosseflute4

Grandgambette4

Tenth3-1/5

Twelfth-1-2-2/3

Twelfth-2-2-2/3

Fifteenth-1-2

Fifteenth-2-2

Fifteenth3-2

Fifteenth-4-2

Sixteenth1-7/9

Seventeenth1-3/

Nineteenth1-1/3

Twenty-first1-1/7

Twenty-second1

Twenty-third8/9

Twenty-fourth4/5

Chorusmixture-X-4

Grandespleinejeux-IX-2-2/3

Furniture-VIII-2

Scharffmixtur-VI-1

Cymbale-V-2/3

Akuta-IV-½

Zimbel-III-1/3

Kuntzzimbel-I-1/6

Great A unison off

 

Great B...enclosed.......duplexed on manuals I&II

Geigendiapason16

Bourdon16

Gemshorn16

Diapason5-8

Diapason6-8

Geigen8x

Harmonicflute8

Stoppedflute8x

Gemshorn8x

Gemshornceleste8

Principal5-4

Tibia4

Hohlflute4

Harmonicflute4

Twelfth-3-2-2/3

Fifteenth-5-2

Piccoloharmonique2

Kleinemixtur-VII-1-1/3

Terzzymbel-II-¼

Subtrombone32

Doubletrombone16

Tromba8

Octavetromba4

Tiercemixture-V-IX-1-3/5

Great B unison off

 

Great C....Chorus Reeds...unenclosed..........triplexed on manuals I-II&IV

Kontrabombarde32

Kontraposaune16

Posaune8

Posauneinoctavo4

Kornett-IV-V-4

Contrebasson32.....hooded

Bombardeharmonique16.....hooded

Trompetteharmonique8.....hooded

Claironharmonique4.....hooded

Clairondoublette2.....hooded

Mountedgrandcornet-V-8

Harmoniquesdesanches-V-3-1/5-(flue pipes)

Chamade16

Chamade8

Chamade4

Chamade2/32

Tubamagna16.....enclosed in Great-box

Tubamirabilis8...enclosed in Great-box

Tubaclarion4.....enclosed in Great-box

Grosssesquialtera-VII-5-1/3.....enclosed in Great-box

Great C unison off

 

Swell A....flues..........duplexed on manuals II&IV

Contrefluteconique32

Diapasonconique16

Bourdon16

Violepompose16

Violeceleste16

Chamois16

Chamoisceleste16

Flutedouce16

Fluteceleste16

Stentorphone8

Diapason-1-8

Diapason2-8

Diapason3-8

Montre8

Principal8

Principalconique8

Grosseflute8

Bourdonenbois8

Bourdonceleste8

Flutetraversiere8

Traversiereceleste8

Fluteafuseau8

Fluteacheminee8

Fluteapointe8

Violoncelleceleste8-III-u-#-##

Violesdegambe8-III-u-#-##

Violesdorchestre8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Salicionalsceleste8-III-u-#-##

Eoliennescelestes8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Aetherialcelestes-8-V-u-#-##-b-bb(kleine erzahlers)

Flutesdargentcelestes-8-III-u-#-b

Flutesdoucecelestes8-II

Undamaris8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Grosnasard5-1/3

Stentorphone4

Principal-1-4

Principal2-4

Principal3-4

Prestant4

Octave4

Montreconique4

Flutemagique4

Magiqueceleste4

Fluteharmonique4

Flutedamour4

Flutecruese4

Fluteabiberon4

Gambettecelestes4-II

Salicetcelestes4-II

Chamoiscelestes4-II

Undamaris4-II

Grossetierce3-1/5

Twelfth2-2/3

Nasard2-2/3

Fifteenth-1-2

Fifteenth2-2

Octavin2

Doublette2

Spitzprincipal2

Flageoletharmonique2

Blockflote2

Violetta2

Undamaris2-II

Seventeenth1-3/5

Tierce1-3/5

Nineteenth1-1/3

Larigot1-1/3

Twenty-first1-1/7

Septieme1-1/7

Twenty-second-1

Fife1

Neuvieme8/9

Oktavterz4/5

GravemixtureVII-4

Mixturedouce-V-2-2/3

Cornetmixture-III-V-2-2/3

StringmixtureV-2-2/3

Fourniture VI-2-2/3

PleinjeuV-2

PetitjeuIV-1-1/3

Kleinemixtur-III-1

Scharf-III-IV-2/3

Cymbale-III-½

Sept-neuf-II-8/9

Jeudeclochette-III-2/5

Tierce-cymbale-II-1/5

Tremolo

Swell-A-celestes16

Swell-A-celestes4

 

Swell B....Major Reeds..........duplexed on manuals III&I

Contrepetitbombarde32

Contretrompette16

Premieretrompette8

Deuxiemetrompette8

Troisiemetrompette8

Quintetrompette5-1/3

Clairon4

Tiercetrompette3-1/5

Nasardtrompette2-2/3

Clairondoublette2

GrosseharmoniquesdesanchesVII-5-1/3(flue pipes)

Contrabombarde16

Bombarde8

Octavebombarde4

SeptiemecornetVII-2-2/7

Swell B unison Off

 

Swell C....Minor Reeds..........duplexed on manuals III&V

Doublecornopean16

Cornopean8

Cornopeanclarion4

Contrahautboy16

Hautboy8

Octavehautboy4

Tiercemixture-III-2-2/3

Doubleclarinet16

Bassethorn8

Cremona4

Voxbass16

Voxalto8

Voxsoprano4

Tremolo

Swell C unison off

 

Swell D....Diapasons duplexed from Swell A and enclosed in separate swell-box and controlled by separate swell shoe or master all swells to swell on manual (one) I

Diapasonconique16

Stentorphone8

Diapason-1-8

Diapason2-8

Diapason3-8

Montre8

Principal8

Principalconique8

Stentorphone4

Principal-1-4

Principal2-4

Principal3-4

Prestant4

Octave4

Montreconique4

Twelfth2-2/3

Fifteenth-1-2

Fifteenth2-2

Octavin2

Doublette2

Spitzprincipal2

Seventeenth1-3/5

Nineteenth1-1/3

Twenty-first1-1/7

Twenty-second-1

GravemixtureVII-4

Cornetmixture-III-V-2-2/3

Fourniture VI-2-2/3

PleinjeuV-2

Kleinemixtur-III-1

Scharf-III-IV-2/3

Cymbale-III-½

Tremolo

 

Swell E Flutes duplexed flutes from Swell A and enclosed in a separate swell-box controlled by a separate swell shoe or by a master swell via all swells to swell on manual IV

Contrefluteconique32

Fluteconique16x

Bourdondoux16

Bourdonharmonique16

Flutedouce16

Fluteceleste16

Grosseflute8

Bourdonenbois8

Bourdonceleste8

Flutetraversiere8

Traversiereceleste8

Fluteafuseau8

Fluteacheminee8

Fluteapointe8

Bourdonharmonique8

Bourdonharmoniqueceleste8

Flutesdargentcelestes-8-III-u-#-b

Flutesdoucecelestes8-II

Undamaris8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Nasardbourdonharmonique5-1/3

Flutemagique4

Magiqueceleste4

Fluteharmonique4

Flutedamour4

Flutecruese4

Fluteabiberon4

Undamaris4-II

Tiercebourdonharmonique3-1/5

Nasardbourdonharmonique2-2/3

Flageoletmagique2

Fluteabec2

Undamaris2-II

Tiercemagique1-3/5

Larigotmagique1-1/3

Septiememagique1-1/7

Piccolomagique1

Neuviememagique8/9

Tiercemagique4/5

Mixturedouce-V-2-2/3

PetitjeuIV-1-1/3

Sept-neuf-II-8/9

Jeudeclochette-III-2/5

Tierce-cymbale-II-1/5

Regale16

Voixhumaine8

Coranglaisregale4

Tremblant

Swell E celestes16-4

 

Swell F Strings duplexed from Swell A enclosed in separate swell-box and separate swell-shoe or by master all swells to swell on manual V

Violepompose16

Violeceleste16

Chamois16

Chamoisceleste16

Chamois8x

Chamoisceleste8x

Violoncelleceleste8-III-u-#-##

Violesdegambe8-III-u-#-##

Violesdorchestre8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Salicionalsceleste8-III-u-#-##

Eoliennescelestes8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Aetherialcelestes-8-V-u-#-##-b-bb(kleine erzahlers)

Gambettecelestes4-II

Salicetcelestes4-II

Chamoiscelestes4-II

Violetta2

StringmixtureV-2-2/3

Tremolo

Swell F Celestes 16-4

 

Swell G duplexed from Swell A on manual V

Contrefluteconique32

Diapasonconique16

Bourdon16

Violepompose16

Violeceleste16

Chamois16

Chamoisceleste16

Flutedouce16

Fluteceleste16

Stentorphone8

Diapason-1-8

Diapason2-8

Diapason3-8

Montre8

Principal8

Principalconique8

Grosseflute8

Bourdonenbois8

Bourdonceleste8

Flutetraversiere8

Traversiereceleste8

Fluteafuseau8

Fluteacheminee8

Fluteapointe8

Violoncelleceleste8-III-u-#-##

Violesdegambe8-III-u-#-##

Violesdorchestre8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Salicionalsceleste8-III-u-#-##

Eoliennescelestes8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Aetherialcelestes-8-V-u-#-##-b-bb(kleine erzahlers)

Flutesdargentcelestes-8-III-u-#-b

Flutesdoucecelestes8-II

Undamaris8-V-u-#-##-b-bb

Grosnasardharmonique5-1/3

Stentorphone4

Principal-1-4

Principal2-4

Principal3-4

Prestant4

Octave4

Montreconique4

Flutemagique4

Magiqueceleste4

Fluteharmonique4

Flutedamour4

Flutecruese4

Fluteabiberon4

Gambettecelestes4-II

Salicetcelestes4-II

Chamoiscelestes4-II

Undamaris4-II

Grossetierceharmonique3-1/5

Twelfth2-2/3

Nasardharmonique2-2/3

Fifteenth-1-2

Fifteenth2-2

Octavin2

Doublette2

Spitzprincipal2

Flageoletharmonique2

Blockflote2

Violetta2

Undamaris2-II

Seventeenth1-3/5

Tierceharmonique1-3/5

Nineteenth1-1/3

Larigotharmonique1-1/3

Twenty-first1-1/7

Septiemeharmonique1-1/7

Twenty-second-1

Piccoloharmonique1

Neuviemeharmoniue8/9

Oktavterz4/5

GravemixtureVII-4

Mixturedouce-V-2-2/3

Cornetmixture-III-V-2-2/3

StringmixtureV-2-2/3

Fourniture VI-2-2/3

PleinjeuV-2

PetitjeuIV-1-1/3

Kleinemixtur-III-1

Scharf-III-IV-2/3

Cymbale-III-½

Sept-neuf-II-8/9

Jeudeclochette-III-2/5

Tierce-cymbale-II-1/5

Tremolo

Swell-G-celestes16

Swell-G-celestes4

 

Positive A....flues....unenclosed on manuals I&II

Suavial16

Montre8

Principale8

Voceumana8

Kupferpraestant8

Spillflote8

Rohrgedackt8

Quintadena8

Octavmontre4

Principalino4

Octavpraestant4

Koppelflote4

Rohrpommer4

Bordone4

Nason4

Quintaten4

Nachthorn2-2/3

Superdiapason2

Prestant2

Ottava2

Flautodamore2

Spitzterz1-3/5

Quintino1-1/3

Sifflote1-1/3

Flachflote1

Superoktav1

None8/9

Terzflote4/5

Kleinequinta-2/3

Kleinemixtur-V-2-2/3

Kleinescharff-V-1-1/3

Kleinezimbel-IV-2/3

Akuta-III-1/3

Positive A unison off

 

Positive B-enclosed on manuals I&II

Quintflote16

Opendiapason8

Traversflote8

Dolkan8

Dolkanceleste8

Spitzflote8

Spitzceleste8

Dulciana8

Undamaris8

Octavediapason4

Doppelspitzflote4

Erzahler4

Ripieno-VI-4

Glockenspiel-II-1/5

Fagotto16

Fagotto8

Fagotto4

Cromorne8

Tremolo

Positive B 16

Positive B 4

Cymbelstern

Minor Chimes

 

Positive C....Reeds on manuals I&III

Bombarda16

Bombarda8

Bombarda4

Dulzian16

Krummhorn8

Musette8

Kopfregal8

Holzregal8

Geigendregal8

Harfenregal8

Rankett8

Schalmei8

Trichterregal4

Kleinekornett-V-8

Tremolo

Positive C 16

 

Positive D....duplexed from Positive A for convenience of registration on manual II

Suavial16

Montre8

Principale8

Voceumana8

Kupferpraestant8

Spillflote8

Rohrgedackt8

Quintadena8

Octavmontre4

Principalino4

Octavpraestant4

Koppelflote4

Rohrpommer4

Bordone4

Nason4

Quintaten4

Nachthorn2-2/3

Superdiapason2

Prestant2

Ottava2

Flautodamore2

Spitzterz1-3/5

Quintino1-1/3

Sifflote1-1/3

Flachflote1

Superoktav1

None8/9

Terzflote4/5

Kleinequinta-2/3

Kleinemixtur-V-2-2/3

Kleinescharff-V-1-1/3

Kleinezimbel-IV-2/3

Akuta-III-1/3

Positive D unison off

 

Solo A....flues on manaual IV

Doublediapason16...D-L

Diapasonmajestico8..II..D-L

Flautomirabilis8..II

Harmonicflute8

Coveredflute8

Tibiadura8

Tibiaplena8

Gambatuba8

Gambatubaceleste8

Gambasceleste8-III

Violoncellocelestes8-III

Orchestralvioles8-V

Quintediapason5-1/3

Octavemajestico4-II-D-L

Doppelflute4

Grossgedeckt4

Hollowflute4

Tibiaclausa4

Viola4

Violaceleste4

Nazardflute2-2/3

Concertpiccolo2

Compensatingmixture-VII-4-D-L

Tremolo

Solo-A-celestes16

Solo-A-celestes4

Chimes

Harp

Celesta

Major Chimes

 

Solo B....Reeds on manuals IV&V

Bassoon16

Orchoboe8

Heckelphone16

Englishhorn8

Frenchhorn16

Frenchhorn8x

Huntinghorn8

Flugelhorn16

Waldhorn8

Posthorn16

Posthorn8x

Tubahorn8

Tremolo

Solo-B-16

Solo-B-4

Harmonictromba16

Harmonictromba8

Harmonictromba4

Mixturemajor-X-16

Solo B unison off

 

Solo C....duplexed from Solo A for convenience of registration on manuals V&VI

Doublediapason16...D-L

Diapasonmajestico8..II..D-L

Flautomirabilis8..II

Harmonicflute8

Coveredflute8

Tibiadura8

Tibiaplena8

Gambatuba8

Gambatubaceleste8

Gambasceleste8-III

Violoncellocelestes8-III

Orchestralvioles8-V

Quintediapason5-1/3

Octavemajestico4-II-D-L

Doppelflute4

Grossgedeckt4

Hollowflute4

Tibiaclausa4

Viola4

Violaceleste4

Nazardflute2-2/3

Concertpiccolo2

Compensatingmixture-VII-4-D-L

Tremolo

Solo-C-celestes16

Solo-C-celestes4

Chimes

Harp

Celesta

Major Chimes

 

Clavierdesbombardes.....quadraplexed on manuals IV-V-VI&VII

Contreophicleide32

Ophicleidemajeur16

Trompettedebombarde8

Clairondebombarde4

Éclat-X-16

Bombarde unison off

 

Choral division-Triplexed on manauals I-II&III

Spiztgeigen8

Spitzgamba8

Spitzgedeckt8

Spitzflote8

Fugara4

Gemshorn2

Kleinemixtur-III-2

Petittrompette8

Clarinet8

Tremolo

16choral

4choral

Choral unison off

Harp

Chimes

Glockenstern

 

Pedal.......duplexed on manual VII with extended ranks to form a Resonanace section

Grandiopenbasso64x

Bourdon64

Openwood32

Openmetal32

Woodviolone32

Metalviolone32

Bourdon32x

Gamba32

Dulciana32

Mutation21-1/3

Openwood16x

Openbass16

Fluteouverte16

Openmetal16x

Opendiapason16

Principale16

Geigen16

Woodviolone16x

Metalviolone16x

Contrabass16

Contrebasse16

Contrabasso16

Kontrabass16

Tibia16

Majorstoppedbass16

Bourdon16x

Bordone16

Softbourdon16

Gamba16x

Dulciana16x

Mutation12-4/5

Mutation10-2/3x

Mutation9-1/7

Mutation7-1/9

Stentorphone8

Diapasonphonon8

Openwood8x

Opendiapson8x

Principal8

Spitzprincipal8

Geigen8x

Fluteouverte8x

Melodia8

Pommer8

Bourdon8x

Spitzflote8

Gemshorn8

Softflute8

Salicional8

Dulciana8x

Solostrings

Mutation6-2/5x

Mutation5-1/3x

Mutation4-4/7x

Mutation3-5/9x

Choralbass4

Bassdechoral e4

Koralbass4

Fluteharmonique4

Flachflote4

Etherealcelestes-4-II

Choralbasset2

Hohlflote2

Gemspfeife1

Obertones64-VII

Harmonics32-VIII

Cornet16-IV

Sesquialtera8-III

Mutations4-II

Off-unisons2-II

Dolcecornet32-IV

GrandiorganiripienoX-16

Chorusmixture-IX-10-2/3

Grossmixture-VIII-8

Grandespleinejeux-VII-5-1/3

Grossecymbale-VI-4

Pedalmixtur-V-2-2/3

Pedalscharff-IV-2

Pedalzimbel-III-1-1/3

Pedalakuta-II-1

Pedalterzzymbel-I-4/5

Contrabombardon64

Bombardon32x

Contrebombarde32

Kontraholzposaune32

Contrafagotto32

Bombardon16x

Bombarde16x

Holzposaune16

Fagotto16x

Sordun16

Quintebombarde10-2/3

Bombardon8x

Trumpet8

Trompette8

Posaune8

Fagotto8x

Krummhorn8

Nasardbombarde5-1/3x

Trumpetclarion4

Posauneklarine4

Clairon4

Schalmey4

Fagotto4x

Zink2

Tremolo

Chimes

Harp

pedal octave to strings

 

Fanfare-octoplexed on all 7 manuals and pedal

Buccinebassoprofundo32

Buccinemaximus16

Buccinepontifex8

Buccinepontificale4

GrandoripienoitalianoXXV-32

 

Corona-octoplexed on all manuals &pedal

Tubamaestosa16

Tubamaggiore8

Tubaminore4

Mixturemirabilis-XX-32

 

Manual to pedal transfers

 

From the great to pedal

Principal32

Principal16

Octave16

Tibia16

Firstdiapason16

Seconddiapason16

Geigendiapason16

Bourdon16

Spitzflute16

Gemshorn16

 

Bombarde32

Bombarde16

Posaune16

Basson32

Basson16

Bombardeharmonique16

Trombone32

Trombone16 no1

Trombone16 no2

Tuba16

 

Swell to pedal transfers

Contrefluteconique32

Diapasonconique16

Fluteconique16

Bourdon16

Violepompose16

Violeceleste16

Chamois16

Chamoisceleste16

Flutedouce16

Fluteceleste16

 

Contrepetitbombarde32

Contretrompette16

Premieretrompette8

Deuxiemetrompette8

Troisiemetrompette8

Quintetrompette5-1/3

Clairon4

Tiercetrompette3-1/5

Nasardtrompette2-2/3

Clairondoublette2

GrosseharmoniquesdesanchesVII-5-1/3(flue pipes)

Contrabombarde16

Bombarde8

Octavebombarde4

SeptiemecornetVII-2-2/7

Doublecornopean16

Cornopean8

Cornopeanclarion4

Contrahautboy16

Hautboy8

Octavehautboy4

Tiercemixture-III-2-2/3

Doubleclarinet16

Bassethorn8

Cremona4

Voxbass16

Voxalto8

Voxsoprano4

Regale16

Voixhumaine8

Coranglaisregale4

 

Positive to pedal transfers

Quintflote16

Suavial16

 

Bombarda16

Bombarda8

Bombarda4

Fagotto16

Fagotto8

Fagotto4

Dulzian16

Crmorne8

Krummhorn8

Musette8

Kopfregal8

Holzregal8

Geigendregal8

Harfenregal8

Rankett8

Schalmei8

Trichterregal4

Kleinekornett-V-8

 

Solo to the pedal transfers

Doublediapason16...D-L

Diapasonmajestico8-II-D-L

Flautomirabilis8-II

Harmonicflute8

Coveredflute8

Tibiadura8

Tibiaplena8

Gambatuba8

Gambatubaceleste8

Gambasceleste8-III

Violncellocelestes8-III

Orchestralvioles8-V

Quintediapason5-1/3

Octavemajestico4-II-D-L

Doppelflute4

Grossgedeckt4

Hollowflute4

Tibiaclausa4

Viola4

Violaceleste4

Nazardflute2-2/3

Concertpiccolo2

Compensatingmixture-VII-4-D-L

Bassoon16

Orchoboe8

Heckelphone16

Englishhorn8

Frenchhorn16

Huntinghorn8

Flugelhorn16

Waldhorn8

Posthorn16

Tubahorn8

Tremolo

Chimes

Harp

Harmonictromba16

Harmonictromba8

Harmonictromba4

Mixturemajor-X-16

 

Clavierdesbombardes to the pedal transfers

Contreophicleide32

Ophicleidemajeur16

Trompettedebombarde8

Clairondebombarde4

Éclat-X-16

 

D-L=double languid

 

all couplers from one department to another would be unison only

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Guest Lee Blick

steve

 

You're taking all this way too seriously. No-one is attacking you. Us organists this side of the pond obviously have a sense of humour you guys are not used to.

 

I am still not convinced you need so many stops in your spec. But good luck. If the Vatican go for your spec and this mega-organ does get created well I am sure it will be an exciting instrument to play and will surely rock da house! ;)

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Guest Lee Blick

Now that makes more sense to me. It looks like you have two contrasting organic styles. Would they be in the same case on the gallery, or two separate ones with space for a choir or orchestra in between.

 

Does it do much doubling up of the existing instruments? Would they be all housed within one console? I'm sure it would make a magnificent sound.

 

Just asking questions, not critisizing you in any way....

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Guest Lee Blick

Goodness me steve, in heaven's name why the hell are you bringing up the war? What is the point of posting an organ specification on a discussion board of an ORGANBUILDER'S WEBSITE, if you are unable to handle people's comments. Your other specifications were ridiculously long, you had everything but the kitchen cinq in there.

 

You brought up the 'English Cathedral Tradition' but this website IS based in the United Kingdom, so you can't blame people for drawing on those experiences within that tradition.

 

Are you a professional organ advisor in your field, or are you as I suspect, a well meaning amateur who loves organs as a hobby? Not that it matters to me, but I thought there were holes in your design and the whole point of this discussion board was to discuss them and have a little humour along the way.

 

So don't give us this balony about the superiority of the States over the British in the two world wars because I find those sort of comments less than tasteful.

 

Thank-you. ;)

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Guest Roffensis

I was also surprised at the bit about the war, and really we have nothing at all to learn from the USA whatever in terms of organ building. We were building organs before the USA was even born. I well recall one organ by Reuter that I played, with a en chamade at ear level almost, in a pretty small cathedral. The Organist told me he considered the job just wasn't loud enough. It was shattering in the building, and plenty enough. You'll get my point, we don't need huge overblown organs, lest we go doen the Wanamaker and Atlantic city organs which are basically too costly to maintain. A conservative and logical organ carefully placed, with a nave division as required will ever outshine anything else at liturgical level.

To return however to the war, yes things may well have been very different, but even so, we have made a pretty good job of ruining many organs in England regardless of outside influence, whether from Europe or the USA, and we have still not learnt to respect that which personally we dislike. As much as I dislike huge overblown specs and batteries of stops that take an hour to look over and find, I also accept that in the USA tradition, it is evidently what people want over there.

St Peters would never require a huge organ, as so much is of a accompanimental nature, rather than blasting out FFF. The RC tradition is different form the Anglican for example, in fact today downright boring, since the advent of Vatican II. Whole masses are now totally redundant in the "old" language, and the catholic church cannot give any real lead musically at all now, so that organathon is just never going to happen. Hence my post about 4 foot flutes, I've been there!!!! ;)

R

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if u find those realities uncouth then u r shutting ur eyes to the truth

 

the usa bailed ur miserable hides from certain defeat at the hands of wilhelm and hitler

 

buckingham would be one of adolfs many palaces like saddam had all over

 

so kindly get off ur soap box and face the truth that britain was doomed otherwise to extinction had it not been for eisenhower and d-day and roosevelt

 

as for tradition its ok for u

 

we r not obligated to uphold it

u r

for a small entity u have way too many cathedrals

 

u got caught up in a midevil theological contest

 

now u r stuck with buildings that r falling apart and cant be heated or cooled to any level of comfort

 

the boys choir traditions r virtually extinct

 

time to let go of useless traditions and come on board the 21st century or risk becoming completely an anachronism

I find this prejudiced and racial post unacceptable. I am sure many Americans would also find these comments from a fellow countryman unacceptable.

 

The points of view in it are misinformed, biased and untrue. I do not think they have any place on this forum. Personally, I have very rapidly lost any respect and trust in the member who posted them.

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Personally I don't see the point in revising St. Peter's organ. As others have said, the Catholic musical tradition is much changed since Vatican II, and, particularly in Italy, the organ is really only used to accompany the congregation, who tend to sing everything very slowly, in a random time signature and to their own tune, so the only real purpose for the organ is to give a starting note and to indicate that they ought to be singing now.

 

At least, that was my experience of about 10 years ago when I lived over there. I went to a few services in St. Peter's, and to be honest, my overall impression was that music was an irrelevance. The funniest/saddest thing I saw though, was people SMOKING in the "queue" for communion. Not that the word queuing has much relevance to what actually happens.

 

Does anyone know anything about the organ in the abbey at Montecassino? I played it once, but can't for the life of me remember who it was by...

 

re: Steve's comments - no criticism levelled at anyone here - it reminds me of the old Usenet "law":

 

1. If more than one English person is in a discussion, it will degenerate into Monty Python jokes

2. If more than one American is in a discussion, it will end up on gun control

3. If there are both English and Americans, it will end up discussing who saved who's butt in the war.

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