St. John the Evangelist, West Vale

[peter ellis]

Hi all

 

The Parish church in my home village of West Vale (just outside Halifax) closed in 1982. I was 6 at the time and the kind old organist of the church let me have a go on the instrument the week it closed. I recall it being very large but then again I was 6.

 

All I know of the instrument is that it was dismantled and I believe some of the pipework reused. I have no idea of the builder.

 

I'm in Australia now so I don't have as much access to historical records as I would like. I was wondering if anyone out there has by any slim chance a specification for the instrument or any information/pictures.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[peter ellis]

On 11/08/2011 at 01:04, peter ellis said:

Hi all

 

The Parish church in my home village of West Vale (just outside Halifax) closed in 1982. I was 6 at the time and the kind old organist of the church let me have a go on the instrument the week it closed. I recall it being very large but then again I was 6.

 

All I know of the instrument is that it was dismantled and I believe some of the pipework reused. I have no idea of the builder.

 

I'm in Australia now so I don't have as much access to historical records as I would like. I was wondering if anyone out there has by any slim chance a specification for the instrument or any information/pictures.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

So - twelve years later I'll try again - there is nothing on NPOR and I wouldn't know where to start. In my mind the instrument was huge but I was only 6. I was also organist of the Baptist Church opposite - now also closed but that did make it onto the record NPOR | R00852

 

 

[S_L]

1 hour ago, peter ellis said:

So - twelve years later I'll try again - there is nothing on NPOR and I wouldn't know where to start. In my mind the instrument was huge but I was only 6. I was also organist of the Baptist Church opposite - now also closed but that did make it onto the record NPOR | R00852

 

 

You, probably, know the area better than me. But I looked on 'google maps' and West Vale seems to be half way between Huddersfield and Halifax and close to Elland. I looked up West Vale, Elland and Greetland and nothing came up on NPOR. 

Have you thought of trying the Halifax Organists Association? They have a website and seem fairly active Halifax & District Organists' Association | For all lovers of the organ and of organ music (hdoa.org.uk)  There are quite a few email addresses on there - including that of the President, Secretary etc.. It might be worth trying one of those who might put something on their website "English organist from Halifax, living in Australia looking for information ......................." or something like that!

Best of luck!

[Colin Pykett]

Peter, I echo S_L's apologies for not knowing much about the area.  But there appear to be 'c8 boxes' (presumably meaning 'about 8 boxes'?) of parish records available at this link going up to the time the church closed:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/aab45786-aa37-4088-95f2-87419300d8d4

So there might be some organ-related material there?

More generally, elsewhere the web suggests that the church itself, still a handsome listed building by the look of it, now houses a business centre (if I've identified the correct church, that is).  See:

https://www.walkersingleton.co.uk/commercial/st-johns-business-centre-calder-street-hx4-8aq/

There might conceivably be some tenuous leads from this, backtracking via sources such as the local council's planning department to the events which led to the development, and hence, perhaps, to people who might have some organ-related information from the time.

I've done similar searches myself, not for churches I must admit, but for the history of a particularly interesting Victorian house I was brought up in.  This was demolished to make way for a petrol station in the 1960s, along with some very old adjacent properties which today would almost certainly have been granted listed status, so the demolition likely could not have happened.  Anyway, I managed to find out a lot about the house by searching through the most unlikely records, such as Kelly's Trade Directories and the like.  It took a long time but eventually yielded the info I was after.

Along the way I discovered there are individuals and organisations who will do this sort of thing for you, but at a price of course.

Good luck.

[Hebridean]

Thank you for the kind comments on the Halifax and District Organists' Association website, S_L - I happen to be the webmaster, so I have let one of the officers know of this conversation and the request Peter is making.  I shall let you know if I hear anything back.  I myself do not know anything about the West Vale organ, I am very sorry, but I will see what I can find out.

[Hebridean]

A message has been sent to the Halifax and District Organists' Association membership asking if anyone can remember anything of the organ.  I'll keep you posted.

[peter ellis]

Very kind all of you - Hebridean I dare say I'll know some of your members. I was organist at West Vale baptist 1988-1994 and had my lessons at St. Paul, King Cross. I also did a bit of playing for the local methodist circuit. 

I was six when St John's closed - terrible shame as it seemed to be a much better building than the Greetland parish it was merged with. I think it's always bugged me because I played it - just too young to remember a thing. 

West Vale had five churches - four with organs - now all gone. 

[Hebridean]

I regret, as yet, no one has provided any information about this instrument from our membership.  I have had a look, on a complete off-chance, for West Vale in the indices of all of Laurence Elvin's relevant books, but there is no reference.  If anything does come back from the HDOA, I will post it, but for now I think we may have drawn a blank.  Sorry.

[peter ellis]

11 hours ago, Hebridean said:

I regret, as yet, no one has provided any information about this instrument from our membership.  I have had a look, on a complete off-chance, for West Vale in the indices of all of Laurence Elvin's relevant books, but there is no reference.  If anything does come back from the HDOA, I will post it, but for now I think we may have drawn a blank.  Sorry.

Thanks for trying. 

[S_L]

Anyone tried Philip Tordoff?

[peter ellis]

5 hours ago, S_L said:

Anyone tried Philip Tordoff?

There’s a thought - a lovely man. 

[peter ellis]

Photo from a council website. Pipes look lovely. Great building too. 

[S_L]

I'm so pleased that you are starting to get somewhere!!

[Rowland Wateridge]

1 hour ago, peter ellis said:

Great building too. 

I’m certain that such a significant church would have had an entry in Pevsner’s ‘Buildings of England’ - very few slipped through the net, although Pevsner rarely mentioned organs.  Unfortunately the original editions of my Yorkshire volumes are currently in store, so I cannot help on that.  Can any other readers check this?

[Hebridean]

No entry in my copy (Yorkshire: the West Riding, second edition 1967) for West Vale, and no relevant references that I can spot under Greetland or Elland.

[Hebridean]

There is an entry for the church, which mentions the organ and its donor at http://www.calderdalecompanion.co.uk/ww_3.html

There is a book by J.H. Marshall (who appears to have been the third incumbent), entitled 'A short history of the church in West Vale', published Elland, 1904 (referenced here https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101134006-church-of-st-john-the-evangelist-greetland-and-stainland-ward).  

[Rowland Wateridge]

Well, here’s a surprise.  It is, or was when still a church, Grade II listed. It seems surprising that Pevsner apparently missed it.  It turns up on Wikipedia’s entry for ‘Listed buildings in Greetland and Stainland’, which, incidentally, possesses the astonishing number of 144 listed buildings.  Obviously local knowledge of the history and geography of this area is essential.  You will need to scroll a very long way down to find it, but these are the details:

1880-1882  The church, later used for other purposes, has Gothic and Romanesque features, it is built in stone with sandstone dressings, and has a slate roof. The church consists of a nave and a chancel under a single roof with a clerestory, north and south aisles, and a west tower incorporating a porch. The tower has three stages, clasping buttressesthat rise to octagonal pinnacles, and a short octagonal spire. The windows along the sides of the church have round heads, and the east window consists of three lancets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_Greetland_and_Stainland

[peter ellis]

It is a stunning building, as I think I mentioned much grander than the mother church in Greetland. It was the kind old organist Elsie Lumb who took me in there with my parents the Friday before the church closed. My dad also took me to the final service. Come to think of it this must make me the penultimate player on that organ. 
 

I do also remember that Elsie Lumb recorded the service on cassette - she played it for my parents some time later. She would now be dead and I can’t imagine the tape survived. 
 

And now I get to thinking. Back in the days of work experience for school students I did two weeks organ building work with Michael Fletcher. We went to an Anglican Church in Bradford to pull out an organ (to be replaced by an electric) and it was in pretty good condition. I played the last notes on it (Widor from memory) before it was dismantled. I think I may be a death wish for organs. I’m going to work out what church that was for sure. 
 

 

[peter ellis]

I've got as far as the CofE church heritage record - indicates the West Vale organ was an 1882 instrument (makes sense) by Peter Conacher (Huddersfield, over the hill, also makes sense). The organ in the Baptist church opposite was a Conacher, albeit replated by Rushworths after the factory fire. 

So anyone know where Conacher's factory records ended up? Was that not the firm which ended up in the hands of John Sinclair Willis? 

[S_L]

3 hours ago, peter ellis said:

So anyone know where Conacher's factory records ended up? Was that not the firm which ended up in the hands of John Sinclair Willis? 

Something tells me that they ended up with Willis - but I couldn't be absolutely certain about that!

Malcolm Cruise used to be organist at Almondbury Parish Church. He was also the music critic for the Huddersfield Examiner and active in the, now defunct, Huddersfield Organists Association. I googled him and he is still Organist Emeritus at Almondbury. Perhaps the Vicar, Rev. Felicity Cowling-Green, can point you in his direction. Philip Tordoff will know him! I'd be willing to bet money that Malcolm knows the whereabout of Conacher's records! Or you could try Woods Organ builders of Huddersfield. David Wood's father, Philip, now deceased, worked for Conachers in his early days

1000 posts!! Mostly worthless but I hope that, since coming here in 2010, I've been of some use!! I've been accused of being acerbic and a bit forthright! If I have offended then now is a suitable time to apologise!! Wishing all forumites a very Happy Easter - when it, eventually, arrives!!! 

[peter ellis]

Thanks for this and congratulations on your 1000.