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Guest Lee Blick

Lee Blick

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Guest Lee Blick

I was listening to Pipedreams (it is a haven as far as I am concerned) and they played the lowest notes of the 64ft flue rank on the Atlantic City Convention Auditorium organ and it indeed sound like the rotating blades of a helicoptor. It was quite exciting to hear it on my bass woofer enhanced sound system.

 

Are there organs in the UK that would benefit from such a rank?

 

I was wondering whether this would really be heard under a full registration or too muddy to accompany quieter registrations?

 

How much would a rank like this cost today. In fact I would be interested to know how much a rank (61 notes) of each 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, mixtures cost in today's prices. Do larger ranks cost more because of the need to use more material, or are smaller ranks more expensive because of the intricate detail required to produce them.

 

 

N.B. This post is intended not to criticize anyone or any organisation or building in the United States. My comments are just that, my own personal opinion and no offence is intended in any way. Thankyou.

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As far as I know, this rank is acoustically produced. The longest pipes in this organ belong to a metal pedal rank and are approximately forty feet long - i.e. a 32p stop with longish feet.

 

There are at least two such stops in the UK - The H&H in the RAH and Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. I heard the latter in a recital last August. I cannot say that it was particularly audible in louder registrations, there being so much tonal weight to the sound of this instrument in any case.

 

However, Ian Tracey did use it on the last chord of a very quiet piece. I have to say that it sounded slightly odd - almost like a 32p stop which was out of tune, as it were. Personally, I preferred the sound of the three full-length 32p flue stops.

 

I think that you would find that an open 32p rank would cost considerably more to make than any of the other pitches you mentioned. Whilst mixtures would indeed be time-consuming to make, the sheer cost of the raw materials needed for a 32p rank alone, would outweigh this. I do not know whether wood or metal would be more expensive.

 

Whilst 32p reeds are manufactured n this country occasionally, I cannot recall whether there has been a 32p flue manufactured by a British builder since Liverpool Roman Catholic Cathedral Organ was built in 1965, by Walkers. This included a full-length tapered 32p Spitzflöte.

 

For new stops these days, I estimate that one is thinking around £11,000 - £18,000 per rank ( including a percentage of the cost of the soundboards, action and building frame, etc) - depending upon the builder chosen and the rank in question. However, I have had to base those quotes upon information obtained a few years ago, so this may well now be out of date.

 

In any case, for a 32p stop, I suspect that one would pay rather more than this.

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As far as I know, this rank is acoustically produced. The longest pipes in this organ belong to a metal pedal rank and are approximately forty feet long - i.e. a 32p stop with longish feet.

 

There are at least two such stops in the UK - The H&H in the RAH and Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. I heard the latter in a recital last August. I cannot say that it was particularly audible in louder registrations, there being so much tonal weight to the sound of this instrument in any case.

 

However, Ian Tracey did use it on the last chord of a very quiet piece. I have to say that it sounded slightly odd - almost like a 32p stop which was out of tune, as it were. Personally, I preferred the sound of the three full-length 32p flue stops.

 

I think that you would find that an open 32p rank would cost considerably more to make than any of the other pitches you mentioned. Whilst mixtures would indeed be time-consuming to make, the sheer cost of the raw materials needed for a 32p rank alone, would outweigh this. I do not know whether wood or metal would be more expensive.

 

Whilst 32p reeds are manufactured n this country occasionally, I cannot recall whether there has been a 32p flue manufactured by a British builder since Liverpool Roman Catholic Cathedral Organ was built in 1965, by Walkers. This included a full-length tapered 32p Spitzflöte.

 

For new stops these days, I estimate that one is thinking around £11,000 - £18,000 per rank ( including a percentage of the cost of the soundboards, action and building frame, etc) - depending upon the builder chosen and the rank in question. However, I have had to base those quotes upon information obtained a few years ago, so this may well now be out of date.

 

In any case, for a 32p stop, I suspect that one would pay rather more than this.

 

I thought it was the diaphone rank of 64' length, pictures are on this site.

 

Does it add something? well, listening to the final part of 'Ad nos' where the 64' kicks in (so they say), the bass stands well against the volume of the rest, deep and profound.

Maybe an exponent of what was there once in a not to be revealed English city so much debated on this site? :huh:

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Yes, it's a full length rank. It appears amongst both the flues (where it's called Diaphone) and the reeds (where it's called Dulzian) - but both stops use exactly the same rank of pipes.

 

I can't help wondering what the point was of quinting the Dulzian at 42 2/3 ft.

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Yes, it's a full length rank. It appears amongst both the flues (where it's called Diaphone) and the reeds (where it's called Dulzian) - but both stops use exactly the same rank of pipes.

 

I can't help wondering what the point was of quinting the Dulzian at 42 2/3 ft.

 

============================

 

Why not a Double Double LeeBlick Gedact 64ft?

 

That way, no one would hear it, and no one would ever make one again!

 

MM

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Mmmmm.... So there is a full-length 64p Dulzian/Diaphone.

 

Is that not rather like fitting wheels to a tomato....?

 

:)

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Guest Roffensis

They add weight. Liverpool does have a resultant 32 flue and that IS very effective, and so also does St Georges Hall here in Liverpool, but apart from the RAH I can't think of any more?

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Can someone explain to me just what exactly is the point of a 64ft stop? It's not as if they add much, if anything, to what with 32fts is already going to be a pretty complete Pedal division. Could it perhaps be something of a virility symbol? Whatever the reason, the musical argument for such a stop eludes me.

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Can someone explain to me just what exactly is the point of a 64ft stop? It's not as if they add much, if anything, to what with 32fts is already going to be a pretty complete Pedal division. Could it perhaps be something of a virility symbol? Whatever the reason, the musical argument for such a stop eludes me.

 

=============================

 

A 64ft stop is a musical nonsense of course!

 

Our hearing quickly fizzles out below 32ft CCCC, so we simply cannot hear the fundamental of a 64ft rank at more or less anything below the 32ft pitch. We only hear the harmonics, and if EVER there was a case for a digital addition, this would be IT!

 

Interestingly, low frequency, sub-sonic sound generation has been investigated as a possible weapon on the battlefield, so if they EVER get Atlantic City up and running again, don't be surprised if people vomit at the re-opening.

 

I am vomitting already, just thinking about the sheer bad-taste of that particular instrument, but I suppose it IS unique and worth restoring.

 

MM

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Can someone explain to me just what exactly is the point of a 64ft stop? It's not as if they add much, if anything, to what with 32fts is already going to be a pretty complete Pedal division. Could it perhaps be something of a virility symbol? Whatever the reason, the musical argument for such a stop eludes me.

 

They add weight as said above, but it differs what kind of stop it is - a high pressure diaphone will shake the floor/building probably more than something flue-acoustique ...

Further, in a 'giant' stoplist it may show like the penultimate stop - 'nothing left to whish for'

 

For Atlantic City you might listen these samples. Though they are in mp3 and not all stops available ( :) ).

 

For Sidney Town Hall sample check out this site. Speaking prompt eyh mate ??

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=============================

 

A 64ft stop is a musical nonsense of course! 

 

Our hearing quickly fizzles out below 32ft CCCC, so we simply cannot hear the fundamental of a 64ft rank at more or less anything below the 32ft pitch. We only hear the harmonics, and if EVER there was a case for a digital addition, this would be IT!

 

Interestingly, low frequency, sub-sonic sound generation has been investigated as a possible weapon on the battlefield, so if they EVER get Atlantic City up and running again, don't be surprised if people vomit at the re-opening.

 

I am vomitting already, just thinking about the sheer bad-taste of that particular instrument, but I suppose it IS unique and worth restoring.

 

MM

 

You may well not be able to hear the fundamental of the bottom octave, but it adds tremendous gravitas further up the pedalboard.

 

I remember a couple of years ago waking up in the middle of the night having left my bedside radio on, to find a performance of Ad Nos in progress (don't get me started on the scheduling of organ music on Radio 3). Towards the end of the piece, the most amazing pedal reed was introduced. It sounded awesome even on the bedside radio's 2" speaker - which probably has virtually no response below about bottom G on a 16' stop.

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Towards the end of the piece, the most amazing pedal reed was introduced.  It sounded awesome even on the bedside radio's 2" speaker - which probably has virtually no response below about bottom G on a 16' stop.

 

======================

 

Nick, you have just confirmed my point.........

 

The same 64ft effect could be produced digitally with absolutely nothing lost, but I suspect they would need more than 2" speakers!!

 

Perhaps a folded horn?

 

But then, wouldn't that be a sort of tuneable Diapahone?

 

Who needs to know? Who cares?

 

Send the idea to Worcester!!

 

MM

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Didn't W.... have a Gravissima 64' once upon a time ???

 

==========================

 

 

So did (has) Hull City Hall!

 

So why not send THAT idea to Atlantic City?

 

Just imagine, a "Gravissima Subterra Ultra 128ft"

 

The economy version would be to attach a diaphonic valve to the city sewers, but I expect it would sound much the same as the rest of the instrument.

 

:)

 

MM

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Guest stevecbournias

the atlantic city organ is far from being bad taste

it is a magnificent organ

the voicing is exquisite

the great chorus brilliant and exciting

the reeds fiery and brite

the most outstanding artisans were employed in its construction

it has double-languids throughout diapason, flute and string stops for power

anybody who judges it from hearsay or a written spec and not from playing or hearing it shows their own bad taste and judgement

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anybody who judges it from hearsay or a written spec and not from playing or hearing it shows their own bad taste and judgement

 

You're right, but this goes for any instrument.

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anybody who judges it from hearsay or a written spec and not from playing or hearing it shows their own bad taste and judgement

 

I'm sure you're right - I know very little about it.

 

But, surely anyone that designs an instrument that can't be maintained because it's so damn big needs their head examined?

 

My only concept of the size of the hall is from photos, where it does look huge - does the organ *need* to be that large? A serious question, I just have no idea what kind of scale this building is.

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