Jump to content
Mander Organ Builders Forum

Recommended Posts

Hmmm, recently I've increasingly come across links to Youtube clips only to find the clip has been taken down. TUrns out there is an automated process going on, these are a link that explain the process:

http://fairusetube.org/articles/20-falling-through-the-cracks

 

with maybe a solution of sorts:

http://www.wikihow.com/Unblock-Copyright-Infringement-on-Youtube

 

So basically it sounds like if you put up three clips that someone, anyone wants to claim copyright of, Youtube can close your account and delete all your clips, regardless of whether the person claiming copyright actually does has any legitimate point? Digital rights gone mad!

Link to post
Share on other sites

A belated reply to justadad's original query: Jongen died in in 1953 - which means his music is in copyright until 2023 in the EU. Therefore you can't just buy a copy of a piece of Jongen and make your own arrangement of it - this is a definite infringement of copyright!

 

Without going into the specifics of YouTube (which I'm not an expert) if you then record your own unauthorized arrangement of a copyright work and and make it available to the public without a mechanical licence that is a second copyright infringement!

 

So - there were two definite grounds for infringement here!

 

However, it isn't quite as draconian as might be imagined. If you want to make your own arrangement of a copyright work, you have to send the score of the arrangement to the copyright owner (most often the publisher) and they usually approve it - for a fee, generally in the region of £100. You also have to assign all your rights in the arrangement to the copyright owner of the original work ie you loose any rights you think you might have in your arrangement - they now entirely belong to the copyright owner of the original work.

 

If the arrangement is recorded the mechanical licensing agency concerned (MCPS in UK, Harry Fox in US) will collect the appropriate licence fee and pay the copyright owner of the original work. So this is why you would have to pay a licence fee for recording, for example, your son's arrangement of that Jongen work.

 

Gary Cole

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Gary for this clarification. Just as a matter of interest, does something similar apply to improvisation? A couple of weeks ago the Olympic Torch passed through Stratford-upon-Avon and was thus reasonably close to the village church where I play. To mark the event (not that, I think, anybody noticed...) I ended the service with an improvisation, albeit a well-rehearsed one since improv isn't my strongest suit, based on John Joubert's "Torches, Torches, run with.........".

 

I have no fear that the copyright police will impound my organ key but should be interested just to satisfy my curiosity.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Gary for this clarification. Just as a matter of interest, does something similar apply to improvisation? A couple of weeks ago the Olympic Torch passed through Stratford-upon-Avon and was thus reasonably close to the village church where I play. To mark the event (not that, I think, anybody noticed...) I ended the service with an improvisation, albeit a well-rehearsed one since improv isn't my strongest suit, based on John Joubert's "Torches, Torches, run with.........".

 

I have no fear that the copyright police will impound my organ key but should be interested just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

In a (reasonably) related matter, I possess a copy of Brewer's Marche Héroïque, on which, at the bottom of the first page of music is a warning that "The public performance of any parodied version of this composition is strictly prohibited." Aside from the fact that I regard the piece as being a well-constructed example of its genre and thus effective, I cannot imagine why anyone should wish to parody it.

 

As an aside, I note that the publishers are unable apparently to decide on the correct use of accents on the second word of the title. The cover page gives a diaeresis to the i, the inner title page adds an acute accent to the e, but the title at the top of the first page of music gives only an acute accent to the e. A cursory search on 'Google' reveals a number of each of these versions, with several examples of a fourth, which has no accents at all.

 

As far as I am aware, the only correct version is that which adds an acute accent to the e and gives a diaerisis to the i.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gary

 

That's very helpful.

 

The Jongen arrangement was performed in the USA. There, copyright law states ...

 

 

§ 110 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Exemption of certain performances and displays43

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright:

...

(3) performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work or of a dramatico-musical work of a religious nature, or display of a work, in the course of services at a place of worship or other religious assembly;

 

As it is a 'nondramatic' musical work and was performed in the course of a service at a place of worship, am I wrong in thinking that the performance, at least, did not infringe copyright?

Best wishes

J

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Gary for this clarification. Just as a matter of interest, does something similar apply to improvisation? A couple of weeks ago the Olympic Torch passed through Stratford-upon-Avon and was thus reasonably close to the village church where I play. To mark the event (not that, I think, anybody noticed...) I ended the service with an improvisation, albeit a well-rehearsed one since improv isn't my strongest suit, based on John Joubert's "Torches, Torches, run with.........".

 

I have no fear that the copyright police will impound my organ key but should be interested just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

 

==========================

 

 

I'm not getting invlved with all this....too much of a minefield,

 

However, the amusing thought occured to me that just about every theatre/cinema organist, since the days that the instruments were invented, have either parodied or re-arranged EVERYTHING, because there are probably less than half a dozen original cinema organ pieces.

 

More interestingly, those parodies and arrangements are broadcast all around the world on YouTube, on dedicated radio channels, by the BBC, on CD's, videos, from old LP recordings etc etc.

 

I mean, if a cinema organist plays thirty pieces in a concert, (mainly from the big shows and popular ballad classics), do they need to pay the original publishers £100 for each parody or arrangement?

 

I think this might cast considerable doubt over the financial viability of ever playing a theatre organ in public.

 

As for improvising on a theme by John Joubert....you're doomed.

 

In the unlikely event that I were to attend a fancy-dress party dressed as a lady, could I be sued by the women's institute or some extreme feminist movement?

 

I suspect that the truth of the matter is to be found in the hammering the recording industry has taken with the advent of computer technology and information exchange.

 

Best,

 

MM

 

 

News alert: Schrodinger's cat currently thinking outside the box.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for improvising on a theme by John Joubert....you're doomed.

 

News alert: Schrodinger's cat currently thinking outside the box.

 

1) I know, but I couldn't think of anything else using a torch...

 

2) At last, someone noticed! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to say that the 23rd July came and went without Harry Fox or his agency doing anything, and the infringement notice has been removed.

 

Despite the learned arguments above I suspect the whole thing has precious little merit and is just an exercise in misplaced harassment.

 

Best wishes

 

J

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for improvising on a theme by John Joubert....you're doomed.

 

News alert: Schrodinger's cat currently thinking outside the box.

 

1) I know, but I couldn't think of anything else using a torch...

 

2) At last, someone noticed! :D

 

 

==========================

 

 

There's music by Sidney Torch of course, and I believe he wrote a "Torch Song". "Chariots of Fire" would have been perfect, of course.

 

I had an altogether better idea for the passing of the Olympic Torch, which didn't involve music at all. The idea took shape in the local pub, when it was agreed that a friend of mine would attend the passing of the torch, and I would arrive with duck-tape and long canes. He would bring a two pronged instrument a little sharper than a tuning-fork; his brother would bring Hovis.

 

Using the canes and duck tape, the idea was to break away from the crowd and run after the torch-bearer, with a piece of bread on the end of the two pronged fork.

 

It would have been worth the ensuing arrest for a public order offence.

 

The idiot slept in!

 

Best,

 

MM

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

A few days ago I posted a clip of the Prelude and Fugue in B major by Dupré which Justason had played after a choral Eucharist.

 

Pretty much instantly I got copyright infringement claims from GoDigital MG For a Third Party and One or more music publishing rights collecting societies.

 

I disputed the claims on the basis that the music was performed in a church service, from a legitimately purchased score, by my son; that it was recorded and put into the public domain by the Cathedral, and that I had made the video.

 

Sometimes the infringement claims are released immediately upon appeal (automatically on the basis, I assume, that the claimants know they are trying it on and climb down at the first sign of a challenge).

 

Sometimes there is no automatic climb-down and you are told that the claimants have until a certain date to respond. This seems to vary from one to three months. In the past I have only had three-month reviews and in each case the time has expired and the claim lapsed. (I assume these people are also trying it on and the claims simply lapse in due course.)

 

The claims of GoDigital and the other societies were due to be reviewed by September 12th (one month after my publishing the video on YouTube).

 

I got notification on 16th August saying:

 

GoDigital MG For a Third Party Claim released.

One or more music publishing rights collecting societies pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif Claim released.

 

As this wasn't an automated, instant response and not did it come at the end of the review period, I wonder if this one hasn't actually been considered on its merits.

 

It seems to me that, at least as far as YouTube is concerned, there's no problem with posting recordings of performances given in church services; even if the music itself is still in copyright.

 

You may get a claim and have to dispute it, but the dispute takes a couple of minutes and, in my experience, always succeeds.

 

Best wishes

 

Justadad

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...