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Just have a browse through the musical set-up at this church in Salisbury, Maryland, USA: http://www.asburyweb...Music/index.htm

 

This is a Methodist church. What Methodist church in Britain can match this? Can any church here match this?

 

Plus the latest DoM (a full-time job) has had his four-manual Casavant fundamentally rebuilt and enlarged.*

 

Healthy, or what?

 

* An intrepid correspondent has suggested to me off forum that most of the 32's are digital. I suspect it goes further than this. The previous organ certainly had a small number of digital stops, mainly, if memory serves, in the Solo Organ and at least one of these appears to be still present.

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Just have a browse through the musical set-up at this church in Salisbury, Maryland, USA: http://www.asburyweb...Music/index.htm

 

This is a Methodist church. What Methodist church in Britain can match this? Can any church here match this?

 

Plus the latest DoM (a full-time job) has had his four-manual Casavant fundamentally rebuilt and enlarged.*

 

Healthy, or what?

 

* An intrepid correspondent has suggested to me off forum that most of the 32's are digital. I suspect it goes further than this. The previous organ certainly had a small number of digital stops, mainly, if memory serves, in the Solo Organ and at least one of these appears to be still present.

 

Well, it is certainly healthy.

 

However, I think that I should prefer the set-up which we have here - even with the uncertainty and difficulty in attracting new choristers. I note that there are two bell choirs, a praise band and one or two other things of which I would be wary.

 

Of course it is good that this church seems to attract many people - including young people. But a glance at the 'Music Ministry Schedule' leads me to the conclusion that I would not like the type of music which they do there.

 

And, whilst the old ASB may have had provision for the blessing of an abbess, even this book did not stretch to a liturgy suitable for the blessing of 'Back-Pacs' [sic].

 

As for the 'Puppets' - I do not even want to investigate that....

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It is worth noting that St Magnus the Martyr, where I worship, attracts a sizeable proportion of young people - mainly students and new graduates - some of whom leave and some of whom join each summer as one would expect in an itinerant place like London. The worship is as traditional and old fashioned as you can get. All the congregation gets to sing is Merbecke's creed (unless the choir sings a choral creed, as it sometimes does), the Angelus and two hymns. Tells you something about what intelligent young people really want!

 

Malcolm

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But a glance at the 'Music Ministry Schedule' leads me to the conclusion that I would not like the type of music which they do there.

 

It's not Anglican cathedral, that's for sure. I also suspect that much of the music performed would not be my cup of tea either, but then, nor is working with young children. The musical activity strikes me as perhaps on a level that, in Britain, one might be encouraged to find taking place in good schools, though there is a continuity in this church, age-wise, that one would be stretched to achieve in the school system. The only church here that I can think of with something approaching this sort of music programme is Leeds Cathedral, but I'm not well informed on this front.

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... The only church here that I can think of with something approaching this sort of music programme is Leeds Cathedral, but I'm not well informed on this front.

 

I understand that Sheffield Cathedral has a Sing! programme - more details can be found on the cathedral's website. I wonder if this is similar?

 

I would also caution against working with animals....

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I understand that Sheffield Cathedral has a Sing! programme - more details can be found on the cathedral's website. I wonder if this is similar?

 

And quite a few others these days too I seem to think.

 

A

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It's not Anglican cathedral, that's for sure. I also suspect that much of the music performed would not be my cup of tea either, but then, nor is working with young children. The musical activity strikes me as perhaps on a level that, in Britain, one might be encouraged to find taking place in good schools, though there is a continuity in this church, age-wise, that one would be stretched to achieve in the school system. The only church here that I can think of with something approaching this sort of music programme is Leeds Cathedral, but I'm not well informed on this front.

 

When I was training to be a Reader I and a fellow trainee visited Christ Church Clifton in the days when Berj Topalian was DOM. His musical setup was very much along these lines, although less extensive - two choirs and an orchestra / music team with a rather nice three row Walker. Lovely stuff! Not sure of the current setup, though; Berj was Ordained some time ago and the then Vicar, Paul Berg, is long gone. His Curate did well though - James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool; one of the best preachers I've ever heard.

 

Regards to all

 

John

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Dear John, so glad that you

When I was training to be a Reader I and a fellow trainee visited Christ Church Clifton in the days when Berj Topalian was DOM. His musical setup was very much along these lines, although less extensive - two choirs and an orchestra / music team with a rather nice three row Walker. Lovely stuff! Not sure of the current setup, though; Berj was Ordained some time ago and the then Vicar, Paul Berg, is long gone. His Curate did well though - James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool; one of the best preachers I've ever heard.

 

Dear John- so glad that you went along to Christ Church. I had the privilege of taking over from Berj as DOM, and had an absolute ball there! I stayed for a very happy but busy seven years and we had an enormous music programme at the end- four choirs: a small professional adult choir, a childrens' one, an unauditioned free-for-all and a gospel choir. In addition we had a period instrument baroque ensemble, a kids' band, seven other contemporary bands and an orchestra of about 50 players. The lovely Walker was rebuilt and I was hell-bent on getting some Cochereau-style chamades, 32' reed. etc, all of which came to pass by the grace of God.

A very fulfilling but exhausting time- my hair is going greyer at the thought of it!

In my time there we carried on the tradition of producing fine leaders in addition to Bishop Jones, in my time we had Andy Norman - now Principal of Ridley Hall Cambridge, and Paul Williams, now Bishop of Kensington as well as some other outstanding clergy who were amongst some of the most brilliant colleagues I've ever worked with.

The musical style is very different now as the church has undergone a change of direction and has concentrated solely on contemporary charismatic worship- which it does very well indeed, although I hear rumours that the organ may be going, which would, IMHO, be a real shame as it was a very vibrant and exciting instrument.

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Wow! So it can happen in this country as well.

 

I do hope that the Organ stays in CCC - I only played it once and it would IMHO be an act of crass cultural vandalism to destroy it. I think also it could land the church with a huge bill to replace it in the future, as I can't see the shallowness of some (by no means all) modern 'band led' music holding sway for ever; sooner or later sense will prevail and the value of the traditional hymns will be recognised, and bands usually do hymns very badly in my experience - no variety and far too slow.

 

Why is it that music in church seems to have two warring camps - one insisting that the old has nothing to contribute to worship and all should be modern, guitar and drum led, rhythmic stuff, and the other insisting that this style, often derided as 'happy-clappy', has nothing to offer and that 'trad. is best'? IMHO both views are supremely arrogant, and quite mistaken. To the 'keep it trad.' brigade I would say that there is plenty of attractive, useable music in the newer style, and to the 'sweep it all away and start again' brigade I would say 'would you take the same attitude to the bible - over 2K yrs old, so it must be out of date surely?' In my own church we try to use the best of both within our resources - me doing the trad. stuff on the Organ, and a small group doing the more modern, rhythmic stuff (no drums - we have to draw the line somewhere, and this noisy and unnecessary addition to 'the band' has no place in worship - IM not very!! HO). It works very well, everyone seems to enjoy it, the congregation is growing, and most importantly of all, God is worshipped and glorified in it. Surely that is what it's all about, not this silly 'sweep it all away and start again' attitude - or its reverse? Or am I being perverse?! End of rant!

 

Regards to all

 

John

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Wow! So it can happen in this country as well.

 

I do hope that the Organ stays in CCC - I only played it once and it would IMHO be an act of crass cultural vandalism to destroy it. I think also it could land the church with a huge bill to replace it in the future, as I can't see the shallowness of some (by no means all) modern 'band led' music holding sway for ever; sooner or later sense will prevail and the value of the traditional hymns will be recognised, and bands usually do hymns very badly in my experience - no variety and far too slow.

 

Why is it that music in church seems to have two warring camps - one insisting that the old has nothing to contribute to worship and all should be modern, guitar and drum led, rhythmic stuff, and the other insisting that this style, often derided as 'happy-clappy', has nothing to offer and that 'trad. is best'? IMHO both views are supremely arrogant, and quite mistaken. To the 'keep it trad.' brigade I would say that there is plenty of attractive, useable music in the newer style, and to the 'sweep it all away and start again' brigade I would say 'would you take the same attitude to the bible - over 2K yrs old, so it must be out of date surely?' In my own church we try to use the best of both within our resources - me doing the trad. stuff on the Organ, and a small group doing the more modern, rhythmic stuff (no drums - we have to draw the line somewhere, and this noisy and unnecessary addition to 'the band' has no place in worship - IM not very!! HO). It works very well, everyone seems to enjoy it, the congregation is growing, and most importantly of all, God is worshipped and glorified in it. Surely that is what it's all about, not this silly 'sweep it all away and start again' attitude - or its reverse? Or am I being perverse?! End of rant!

 

Regards to all

 

John

 

 

=============================

 

 

I don't know how any church would cope with my tastes. I like traditional hymnody, but I wish people would write good, modern words which could be set to newly composed tunes.

 

As for the Bible.....I'm afraid much of it is not only irrelevant, it is downright untrue or misleading.

 

I don't think they've invented my church yet.

 

Best,

 

MM

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