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Kings College Carols


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Thanks Martin. That explains a lot. I had noticed, when watching Carols from Kings from various years on You Tube, that sometimes it's on and sometimes it's off! I hadn't seen the one with the continuity error, though. I'm a little surprised that he hasn't yet taken a DMus from Cambridge yet, bearing in mind his enviable position.

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I am not certain whether this is possible any more but in the 'old days' a Cambridge graduate going to work at Oxford could 'incorporate' their degree so that they could wear an Oxford MA hood, for example, even though their degree was from Cambridge.

Incorporation still occurs at both universities, and also Dublin; it's really a formality regarding their status within the university in which they happen to be working. Musicians who hold an MA of one of these three universities and have held a university or college post in another of the three - thus obtaining a 'second' MA by incorporation, include John Harper, Edward Higginbottom, Daniel Hyde, Bill Ives, David Lumsden, Simon Preston, Christopher Robinson and Bernard Rose.

 

Hardly anybody progresses to the Cambridge MusD (or MusB) nowadays; the examinations for these higher degrees are not a walk-over by any means. The composer Derek Bourgeois is one of the very select people I know who holds a Cambridge MusD by examination.

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I'm a little surprised that he hasn't yet taken a DMus from Cambridge yet, bearing in mind his enviable position.

 

At Cambridge the 'Higher' Doctorate, by examination, is a MusD and, as 'wolsey' has commented is rare, to say the least, and no 'walk over' by any means. However I think you mean that you wonder why he hasn't been given an Honorary MusD given the hugely prestigious and enviable position he holds. The statutes concerning Honorary Doctorates say: Current employees of the University and Colleges, although not formally excluded from consideration, are not usually considered. I suspect that, perhaps when Cleobury decides to retire, he will be awarded an Honorary MusD.

 

I enjoyed both the live broadcast and the recorded broadcast from Kings this year. I don't have a problem with Sir Christemas, I have performed it on a number of occasions and choirs have always enjoyed singing it. I also thought the Rutter piece was, as usual, superbly crafted - even if I didn't enjoy the noise it made!

 

My Christmas viewing included watching the Midnight Mass from Leeds Cathedral which I thought was simply excellent - but that is for another thread!

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At Cambridge the 'Higher' Doctorate, by examination, is a MusD and, as 'wolsey' has commented is rare, to say the least, and no 'walk over' by any means. However I think you mean that you wonder why he hasn't been given an Honorary MusD given the hugely prestigious and enviable position he holds. The statutes concerning Honorary Doctorates say: Current employees of the University and Colleges, although not formally excluded from consideration, are not usually considered. I suspect that, perhaps when Cleobury decides to retire, he will be awarded an Honorary MusD.

 

Yes, I was thinking it was high time that SC was given an honorary MusD by the university but your point explains it - afterall - most dons are going to be eminent in their field but not all will get the public exposure that a musician does. He could, of course, get a Lambeth DMus - I think the present archbishop has used Oxford robes for this lately judging by the photos one has seen of folk like Francis Jackson and Martin Neary.

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He could, of course, get a Lambeth DMus - I think the present archbishop has used Oxford robes for this lately judging by the photos one has seen of folk like Francis Jackson and Martin Neary.

 

Apologies for prolonging this digression on this thread, but the photo of Doctors Jackson and Neary in Lambeth degree robes ( http://asfchoir.word...mbeth/img_4522/ ) is misleading, as they are not identical. I imagine that the expense of these garments means that some discreet substitution has taken place.

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Apologies for prolonging this digression on this thread, but the photo of Doctors Jackson and Neary in Lambeth degree robes ( http://asfchoir.word...mbeth/img_4522/ ) is misleading, as they are not identical. I imagine that the expense of these garments means that some discreet substitution has taken place.

 

They look as though they might once have been identical, though. Perhaps one of them 'ran' in the wash!

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They look as though they might once have been identical, though. Perhaps one of them 'ran' in the wash!

 

The other thing is age - (of the dress, not the wearer!). Some of these garments have been handed down from such luminaries as Howells and Thalben-Ball. I think John Birch wore one or the other.

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Were both Francis Jackson and Martin Neary awarded their Lambeth D. Mus. at the same time and from the same Archbishop?

 

As with many degrees, holders of a Lambeth degree are entitled to wear academic dress. However, the academic dress worn is not unique, original or exclusive. The tradition is to wear the academic dress of the institution from which the archbishop graduated and this has always been either Oxford or Cambridge. George Carey was not an Oxford or Cambridge graduate (he is a London graduate) but followed tradition and chose Oxford dress.

 

Perhaps this is the reason they look different!!

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Were both Francis Jackson and Martin Neary awarded their Lambeth D. Mus. at the same time and from the same Archbishop?

 

Yes, they were: the photo was taken in October at Lambeth at the conferment of their degrees.

 

As with many degrees, holders of a Lambeth degree are entitled to wear academic dress. However, the academic dress worn is not unique, original or exclusive. The tradition is to wear the academic dress of the institution from which the archbishop graduated and this has always been either Oxford or Cambridge. George Carey was not an Oxford or Cambridge graduate (he is a London graduate) but followed tradition and chose Oxford dress.

 

Perhaps this is the reason they look different!!

 

Indeed, but both the present Archbishop - and indeed his successor - graduated from Cambridge, and neither of the robes worn by Doctors Jackson and Neary appear to feature the distinguishing dark-cherry satin of a Cambridge MusD seen on this distinguished recipient in Cambridge this summer. With these gowns reportedly costing something approaching £1,000, it's perhaps no wonder suitable substitutes have to be used, and the matter of academic dress is observed in spirit, rather than in letter.

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Just to be clear - despite all outward appearance, Drs Jackson and Neary are both wearing Oxford robes. Good to see the photo of Alfred Brendel - he appears to be on his way to a CAMBRIDGE ceremony - the person pushing him is wearing Cambridge PhD robes. (The dark cherry shade silk in his DMus robe is the same as that in Stephen Cleobury's MusB hood which is where this all began!!) The shape and style of the sleeves of doctoral full dress gowns is different at Oxford and Cambridge too.

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  • 4 weeks later...
A less than traditional approach to BWV 729 this year though! When it started I thought it had been substituted for something else!

 

[i’ve just ‘found’ this, which I wrote at the time: my log-in went awry for a while, around the festivities.]

 

I, too, did a ‘double-take’, when The Bach was begun. I can’t help feeling that this was not quite the right approach at that speed for the King’s organ and acoustic; or, possibly, it was the placing of the mikes. Or, perhaps, it was that I was anticipating the usual and got the unexpected.

 

It was, nonetheless, a most interesting interpretation. I’m sure Ton Koopman would have approved. Has Mr Ramsay been seen on KLM, of late?

 

I was astonished to find that the last time the Duruflé was played after this service was 2007 (15 years ago!).

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Yes, they were: the photo was taken in October at Lambeth at the conferment of their degrees.

 

 

 

Indeed, but both the present Archbishop - and indeed his successor - graduated from Cambridge, and neither of the robes worn by Doctors Jackson and Neary appear to feature the distinguishing dark-cherry satin of a Cambridge MusD seen on this distinguished recipient in Cambridge this summer. With these gowns reportedly costing something approaching £1,000, it's perhaps no wonder suitable substitutes have to be used, and the matter of academic dress is observed in spirit, rather than in letter.

 

=============================

 

 

I usually go to sleep very quickly when people talk about academic robes, but I do tend to perk up when people talk about money.

 

£1,000 seems an awful lot of money to me, especially since the ONLY use for an academic robe is to have somewhere to hide the ham sandwiches and the flask of brandy.

 

My old aunt, bless her memory, could have cobbled one of those robes together for less than the cost of the train-fare, and moreover, could probably have included a tracking device to help find those who wandered off unexpectedly, as elderly academics tend to do......well....all of them actually.

 

Best,

 

MM

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Following an enquiry to the Archivist at King’s, I learn that The Duruflé was played at the end of their Nine Lessons & Carols in 1969, 1980, 1990, 1992 and 1997- then last month.

 

The voluntaries, it seems, began to be listed in 1962.

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