Canterbury Cathedral & Manchester Cathedral, New organs

[Neil Crawford]

Ive heard but not sure if true. Canterbury Cathedral have awarded Harrison & Harrison the contract for a new organ in the Quire perhaps including original pipe work?

Also Manchester will getting a Ken Tickell organ.

 

Anyone got any news?

 

 

Regards

 

 

Neil

 

[iy45]

From the Manchester Cathedral News, July 2103:

 

"Organ Task Group

The Organ Task Group has recommended to Chapter that Tickell is the preferred organ builder for a new organ, and has received Chapter approval. Tickell will now be asked to enhance the design somewhat on issue of aesthetics. A visit to the Tickell workshop in Northampton is currently being arranged so that further discussions on case embellishments and structural issues can occur. Further conversations regarding the social outreach projects that could be created around the new Cathedral organ are currently being worked through, with particular reference to children from deprived backgrounds."

Ian

[wolsey]

Are not Harrison's and Canterbury Cathedral's websites the source of such information?

 

Ive heard but not sure if true. Canterbury Cathedral have awarded Harrison & Harrison the contract for a new organ in the Quire perhaps including original pipe work?

[...]

 

Anyone got any news?

[Neil Crawford]

It looks like the rumor back in June is true and harrisons have been awarded the contract for NEW 5M organ at Canterbury cathedral using some pipework from the Hill/Willis/Mander instrument. i believe this also may include a new 2 manual organ in the Nave. work to start 2014.

[jackaubrey]

It looks like the rumor back in June is true and harrisons have been awarded the contract for NEW 5M organ at Canterbury cathedral using some pipework from the Hill/Willis/Mander instrument. i believe this also may include a new 2 manual organ in the Nave. work to start 2014.

A five manual?!? I hope so....

[sprondel]

A five manual?!? I hope so....

Good to hear that things seem to move on in Canterbury.

 

Only one question, provocative perhaps: Who needs all those manuals in an organ with electric action, where it should be no problem to assign and re-assign keyboards and divisions by pressing the stepper?

 

Best,

Friedrich

[John Robinson]

Good to hear that things seem to move on in Canterbury.

 

Only one question, provocative perhaps: Who needs all those manuals in an organ with electric action, where it should be no problem to assign and re-assign keyboards and divisions by pressing the stepper?

 

Best,

Friedrich

One-upmanship? A bit like Atlantic City.

[pcnd5584]

Good to hear that things seem to move on in Canterbury.

 

Only one question, provocative perhaps: Who needs all those manuals in an organ with electric action, where it should be no problem to assign and re-assign keyboards and divisions by pressing the stepper?

 

Best,

Friedrich

 

For one thing, this will place a greater burden on the memory of the player. ('Now where did I transfer the Secondary G.O.?') This may be manageable when one is simply sitting at the console, perhaps during a sermon - but it is not something I should want to have to worry about whilst playing the last movement of Vierne's Sixième Symphonie, for example.

 

In addition, if (for example) you were thinking of only having a three-clavier console, controlling five manual divisions, this could both complicate registration and restrict the ability to produce contrasting effects, again for example.

 

In any case, I have encountered more faulty steppers * and sequencers on cathedral organs in this country, than any other faulty console or action component . They can also take a very long time to set up - and again, the possibility of making an error is increased.

 

* I cite but three examples as an illustration.:

 

1) York Minster (c.1995). It has in all probability been fixed now - but it was exceedingly unreliable when I played there during that summer - when the system was fairly new.

 

2) Gloucester Cathedral (At the opening recital, January 2000). I know this was faulty - I was turning pages for DJB. Again, it was a new system. During Franck's Deuxième Choral, the stepper decided (unbidden) to return to an earlier channel (or level). DJB managed superbly to play from memory, whilst riffling back through the score, in order to ascertain on which level he had set this piece.

 

3) Chester Cathedral. This summer (2013). Apparently, this sequencer is so unreliable, those of us playing this otherwise wonderful instrument were advised strongly to leave it well alone. (In any case, it is not as if this instrument is under-supplied with divisional or general pistons.)

[sprondel]

 

For one thing, this will place a greater burden on the memory of the player. ('Now where did I transfer the Secondary G.O.?') This may be manageable when one is simply sitting at the console, perhaps during a sermon - but it is not something I should want to have to worry about whilst playing the last movement of Vierne's Sixième Symphonie, for example.

 

In addition, if (for example) you were thinking of only having a three-clavier console, controlling five manual divisions, this could both complicate registration and restrict the ability to produce contrasting effects, again for example.

 

I was more thinking of a more traditional English four-manual standard layout with Choir, Great, Swell and Solo on I, II, III and IV, and everything else floating (probably some Positiv and a nave division). Should that not do for almost everything that was required at Canterbury? In a special situation as that, even with five manuals you would have some divisions floating, at least the nave organ.

 

As for Vierne, would re-assigning divisions not make it in fact easier to play music that was based on a overall three-manual standard with GO, Pos and Récit on I, II and III? Of course the resources of an English cathedral-style organ a different from that of a French c. 1900 one, but would you really need to re-orchestrate as much as to have five manuals at your disposition all the time?

 

About unreliable steppers, of course that’s most annoying, but perhaps also a bit besides the point – sorry I brought that up. It was just to say that I thought life could be simpler for people with shorter arms, and a console might look less like “I have all that too!”. There are of course plenty of ways how to reliably re-assign divisions in a solid-state console.

 

Best,

Friedrich

[John Furse]

In quick searches, I’ve found nowt on either the Cathedral’s or H&H’s websites.

 

Could this “NEW 5M organ” actually be a form of shorthand for “New, £5,000,000 organ” ?

 

[pcnd5584]

 

... As for Vierne, would re-assigning divisions not make it in fact easier to play music that was based on a overall three-manual standard with GO, Pos and Récit on I, II and III? Of course the resources of an English cathedral-style organ a different from that of a French c. 1900 one, but would you really need to re-orchestrate as much as to have five manuals at your disposition all the time? ...

 

Best,

Friedrich

 

I was thinking in terms of the necessary mental agility of having to keep playing this fairly demanding piece, and think about from which keyboard various divisions were currently residing - not in terms of whether this would be a suitable way of registering this movement.

[pcnd5584]

In quick searches, I’ve found nowt on either the Cathedral’s or H&H’s websites.

 

Could this “NEW 5M organ” actually be a form of shorthand for “New, £5,000,000 organ” ?

 

 

It could, although this would be rather expensive - even by Harrisons' standards.

[Neil Crawford]

5m means 5 manuals and NO you will not find any announcement as yet , word has come from H&H staff, work to start 2014.

[David Drinkell]

Interesting exercise - Design 5 manual Harrison Organ....

 

Violone 32, Gross Geigen 16, Double Claribel Flute 16, Open Diapason I, Open Diapason II, Geigen, Hohl Flute, Stopped Diapason, Quint 5 1/3, Octave, Geigen Principal, Wald Flute, Octave Quint, Super Octave, Harmonics 17.19.21.22, Mixture 15.19.22.26.29, Contra Tromba, Tromba, Trompette Harmonique, Octave Tromba....

 

etc....

 

[pcnd5584]

Interesting exercise - Design 5 manual Harrison Organ....

 

Violone 32, Gross Geigen 16, Double Claribel Flute 16, Open Diapason I, Open Diapason II, Geigen, Hohl Flute, Stopped Diapason, Quint 5 1/3, Octave, Geigen Principal, Wald Flute, Octave Quint, Super Octave, Harmonics 17.19.21.22, Mixture 15.19.22.26.29, Contra Tromba, Tromba Rompette Harmonique, Octave Tromba....

 

etc....

 

 

Not too difficult really, is it....

 

The only pause for thought might be at the stage of the fifth clavier - should it be a Bombarde Organ, or perhaps an Echo Organ - or even a Celestial Organ....?

 

It will be interesting to see what the scheme looks like when it is published.

[madorganist]

The original press release, some years ago, was talking of returning the chancel organ to 4m in the Willis style, and with a new 4m organ for the nave.

 

Has Dr Flood changed his mind? or has his budget been cut ?

[Neil Crawford]

I think It will be a harrison organ first and foremost with pipe work with saving and revoiced with possibly a screen case also using the tryforiums. The nave organ may be a 2-3 manual with a duplicate nave console.

[AJJ]

If H&H are involved along with the staff at Canterbury one can be very confident of something musical and thoroughly sensible - one only has to look at St. David's, Bury St Edmunds, St Alban's etc. We are also expecting something rather good down here at Edington Priory from H&H fairly soon albeit at the other end of the scale.

 

A

[Contrabombarde]

The only pause for thought might be at the stage of the fifth clavier - should it be a Bombarde Organ, or perhaps an Echo Organ - or even a Celestial Organ....?

 

 

 

Can't it be all of those..... ?

[pcnd5584]

 

Can't it be all of those..... ?

 

 

Now that is just greedy....

[Martin Cooke]

Has anyone heard anything more about a new organ for Canterbury? I can't find anything.

[DHM]

Has anyone heard anything more about a new organ for Canterbury?

 

Yes.

[Martin Cooke]

Ah!...

Is that it?!

[Neil Crawford]

has anyone seen this blog from 2006

 

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 01, 2006

My proposal for Canterbury Cathedral

 

This scheme is based on what is proposed for Canterbury Cathedral: a rebuild of the existing Willis organ in the Quire Triforium with the addition of casework and a fourth manual, a new four manual Nave Organ and the provision of an East-End Chorus.

The new Nave Organ is based on recent schemes adopted by Harrison & Harrison for new 40-50 stop installations in the USA. With regards to the fourth manual, given that this is a Nave Organ, I have opted for a Bombarde division rather than a Solo manual.

The entire scheme is based on the assumption that the contract is awarded to Harrison & Harrison. There are 3 reasons for this.

(1) Given that Canterbury have said they intend to recruit one organ builder to carry out both the rebuild of the Quire Organ and the building of a new Nave Organ, Harrisons are one of the few organ builders with the workforce capable of carrying out such an undertaking.

(2) Harrisons have demonstrated in recent years that they are capable of sympathetically rebuilding Willis organs, incorporating new material that blends in the with existing pipework. Examples I would cite include St David's Cathedral and the University of Glasgow Memorial Chapel.

(3) On a purely personal basis, as a long-time admirer of their work, I would like to see the Durham organ-builders be awarded this contract.

QUIRE ORGAN

PEDAL
Open Diapason 16
Violone 16
Bourdon 16
Octave 8
Flute 8
Superoctave 4
Open Flute 4
Mixture IV
Contra Posaune 32
Ophicleide 16
Fagotto 16
Posaune 8
Clarion 4

GREAT
Double Open Diapason 16
Open Diapason I 8
Open Diapason II 8
Claribel Flute 8
Stopped Diapason 8
Principal 4
Flute Harmonique 4
Twelfth 22/3
Fifteenth 2
Piccolo 2
Mixture IV
Fourniture IV-VI
Trombone 16
Trumpet 8
Clarion 4

SWELL
Double Diapason 16
Open Diapson 8
Lieblich Gedact 8
Salicional 8
Vox Angelica 8
Principal 4
Open Flute 4
Flageolet 2
Mixture III
Sharp Mixture V
Hautboy 8
Double Trumpet 16
Trumpet 8
Clarion 4

CHOIR
Stopped Diapason 8
Dulciana 8
Principal 4
Chimney Flute 4
Nazard 2 2/3
Blockflute 2
Tierce 1 3/5
Larigot 1 1/3
Mixture IV
Cremona 8

SOLO (enclosed)
Viola 8 (new)
Viola Celeste 8 (new)
Flute harmonique 8 (new)
Concert Flute 4 (new)
Piccolo 2 (new)
Cor Anglais 16 (new)
Orchestral Oboe 8 (new)
Corno di Bassetto 8 (new)
French Horn (new)
Tuba 8 (unenclosed)
Tuba Clarion 4 (unenclosed)

EAST END ORGAN (former Nave division)
Open Diapason 8
Stopped Diapason 8
Octave 4
Superoctave 2
Pedal Subbass 16

NAVE ORGAN (all new)

PEDAL
Double Open Wood 32
Open Wood 16
Open Diapason 16
Sub Bass 16
Violone 16 (Great)
Lieblich Bourdon 16 (Swell)
Octave Wood 8
Principal 8
Bass Flute 8
Fifteenth 4
Flute 4
Mixture IV
Contra Bombarde 32
Bombarde 16
Trombone 16
Double Trumpet 16 (Swell)
Tromba 8
Clarion 4

GREAT
Violone 16
Open Diapason 8
Gamba 8
Harmonic Flute 8
Stopped Diapason 8
Principal 4
Concert Flute 4
Twelfth 2 2/3
Fifteenth 2
Seventeenth 1 3/5
Mixture IV
Trombone 16
Trumpet 8
Clarion 4

SWELL
Lieblich Bourdon 16
Geigen Principal 8
Lieblich Gedackt 8
Salicional 8
Voix Céleste 8
Octave Geigen 4
Stopped Flute 4
Super Octave 2
Mixture IV
Oboe 8
Vox Humana 8
Double Trumpet 16
Cornopean 8
Clarion 4

CHOIR
Viola 8
Bourdon 8
Unda Maris 8
Principal 4
Open Flute 4
Nazard 2 2/3
Fifteenth 2
Blockflute 2
Tierce 1 3/5
Larigot 1 1/3
Mixture IV
Cremona 8

BOMBARDE
Open Diapason 8
Principal 4
Fifteenth 2
Mixture IV-VI
Grand Cornet V
Orchestral Trumpet 8
Contra Tuba 16
Tuba 8
Tuba Clarion 4
Trompette Militaire 8

Jeremy Jones 2006

[pcnd5584]

No - but I still wonder why no-one even batted a proverbial eyelid when our national cathedral lost its (admittedly leaking) 32ft. flue - yet at Gloucester, organ lovers were virtually threatening to chain themselves to the pipes to prevent the cathedral workmen sawing them up.