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And now you can have that Walker if you want it:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=220224150422

 

(And quite separately, a smaller organ by Bates which I think I knew slightly in the distant past when I lived in Crawley:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...m=330228251425)

 

Paul

 

The first one appears to have been withdrawn.

 

Two others there are

 

Item=150235125499

 

and

 

Item=190213513548

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The first one appears to have been withdrawn.

That was the Pershore Abbey Walker; it stated that they were not actually selling through eBay, but just using it an advert - anyone interested should contact them, and money wasn't an issue.

 

Paul

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I can't resist telling you another: this case appeared in the national press, maybe some of you remember it. Experienced teacher in a rural infant school receives an OFSTED inspection in the Spring. One morning as a break from the ordinary lessons she takes the children to a nearby field so that they can see the lambs being born. Result? Fail. It wasn't in her lesson plans from the beginning of the year.

 

============================

 

I'm not suprised that she failed the inspection. She should have had the children reciting "Mary had a little lamb" (The modified version which avoids the unspeakable reference to b***k faces and further modified to delete any reference to environmetally unacceptable "coal"). The teacher should have had the children multiplying the number of new born lambs by four, in order that they would know how many legs there were in total, (making suitable provision for the handicapped) and then divided by two in order to work out the birth-rate per head of sheep population.

 

Any references to procreation would no doubt be considered "inappropriate" at such a tender age.

 

Sometimes it's best not to know the truth, as any school-inspector will tell you.

 

As a five year old, I asked my brother what two dogs were doing, and he told me this was how they made babies. For the next two years, I kept wondering why "Lassie" didn't bring me a younger brother or sister.

 

Now that I know the truth about stalks, I feel less traumatised.

 

MM

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Guest Cynic
That was the Pershore Abbey Walker; it stated that they were not actually selling through eBay, but just using it an advert - anyone interested should contact them, and money wasn't an issue.

 

Paul

 

 

A parish I know was seriously interested and e-mailed the vicar this morning. The whole of the Pershore Abbey organ has now been snapped up. Pity it had to be left in packing cases to go oval in the meantime. Those responsible know who they are! - in once case a very, very eminent and influential gentleman indeed. Maybe if I don't name him now, the moderators will allow me to repeat: IMHO he is the organ world's answer to Dr.Harold Shipman.

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I know about storks; but I'm really worried now that I got something seriously wrong!

 

Paul

 

 

The truth about stalks?.... the mind boggles!

 

Maybe he's referring to Scrumpy Cider, in which case is, the truth is that the cider tastes marginally better with stalks taken out.

[storks too, of course.]

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I know about storks; but I'm really worried now that I got something seriously wrong!

 

Paul

 

 

==============================

 

 

I was getting confused with the bird's stiff-legged walk and the old Norse word storkr. :unsure:

 

Bill Oddy I am not, and only strange people such as he would ever stalk a stork. Organists may know the difference between Bach, Wood and a chiff off the old Blockflute, but when it comes to spelling Stork, it may as well be Rutter.

 

I have tits aloft this year, and a very beautiful pair they are too.

 

MM

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============================

As a five year old, I asked my brother what two dogs were doing, and he told me this was how they made babies.

Actually, however much fun they were having, to make doggie babies one dog and one bitch is generally the required configuration.

 

Good to hear that the former Pershore organ may soon find a more loving home.

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Actually, however much fun they were having, to make doggie babies one dog and one bitch is generally the required configuration.

 

 

:unsure:

 

 

P.

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Guest Barry Williams
A parish I know was seriously interested and e-mailed the vicar this morning. The whole of the Pershore Abbey organ has now been snapped up. Pity it had to be left in packing cases to go oval in the meantime. Those responsible know who they are! - in once case a very, very eminent and influential gentleman indeed. Maybe if I don't name him now, the moderators will allow me to repeat: IMHO he is the organ world's answer to Dr.Harold Shipman.

 

 

If the Walker were to be restored, where in Pershore Abbey could it be situated? The area where it was has been used for another purpose. This was, I gather, part of the reason for removing it.

 

I can think of at least four people who qualify as the organ world's answer to Harold Shipman. One of them, now deceased, is rather revered by some Board members.

 

Barry Williams

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If the Walker were to be restored, where in Pershore Abbey could it be situated? The area where it was has been used for another purpose. This was, I gather, part of the reason for removing it.

 

I can think of at least four people who qualify as the organ world's answer to Harold Shipman. One of them, now deceased, is rather revered by some Board members.

 

Barry Williams

 

 

I revere several organ-builders who have gone before us. The gentleman I have in mind writes well but when actively involved as part of a firm, was responsible for large amounts of what by today's standard can only be termed vandalism. I could give chapter and verse in several cases. Indeed, I would be most surprised if an organ exists (worked upon by his firm in any major way) that does not show as a direct result several unfelicitous and completely inappropriate modifications.

 

It was suggested not long ago that an organ could be erected on a west gallery in Pershore Abbey. No doubt Barry knows the building, but for those who do not, the easiest way to describe it is that there is a solid wall without windows just where in a complete Benedictine Abbey there would be a substantial nave. They thus have a 'Choir', a crossing, both North and South transepts, all with windows but a completely blank wall where everything else would be. The choir ambulatory is very fine and the previous substantial 3-manual organ by Nicholson, Walkers and Nicholson stood in the North East corner of this.

 

It was not a particularly beautiful object in visual terms, though there have been many uglier organ cases. Regardless of that, I would dare to suggest that musically it had a great deal more to commend it than the Bradford Computer Organ that is there now.

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I revere several organ-builders who have gone before us. The gentleman I have in mind writes well but when actively involved as part of a firm, was responsible for large amounts of what by today's standard can only be termed vandalism. I could give chapter and verse in several cases. Indeed, I would be most surprised if an organ exists (worked upon by his firm in any major way) that does not show as a direct result several unfelicitous and completely inappropriate modifications.

 

It was suggested not long ago that an organ could be erected on a west gallery in Pershore Abbey. No doubt Barry knows the building, but for those who do not, the easiest way to describe it is that there is a solid wall without windows just where in a complete Benedictine Abbey there would be a substantial nave. They thus have a 'Choir', a crossing, both North and South transepts, all with windows but a completely blank wall where everything else would be. The choir ambulatory is very fine and the previous substantial 3-manual organ by Nicholson, Walkers and Nicholson stood in the North East corner of this.

 

It was not a particularly beautiful object in visual terms, though there have been many uglier organ cases. Regardless of that, I would dare to suggest that musically it had a great deal more to commend it than the Bradford Computer Organ that is there now.

 

Yes, I have to agree with this. Having had the toaster to accompany choral concerts of various natures and sizes, it was pretty inadequate, especially in its quasi 'French' set up of horizontal stop layout. The west gallery appraoch would have been ideal, there's very little choir accompanying to do there these days, but I understand that there were problems with the Victorian Soc over some wall paintings that would have been covered. Where the organ used to be was about as good as it could have got, but by starting again, they could have turned the organ 45 degrees so that it points out to the congregation as well as accompanying the choir.

 

Are they still planning a nasty hybrid there?

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Yes, I have to agree with this. Having had the toaster to accompany choral concerts of various natures and sizes, it was pretty inadequate, especially in its quasi 'French' set up of horizontal stop layout. The west gallery appraoch would have been ideal, there's very little choir accompanying to do there these days, but I understand that there were problems with the Victorian Soc over some wall paintings that would have been covered. Where the organ used to be was about as good as it could have got, but by starting again, they could have turned the organ 45 degrees so that it points out to the congregation as well as accompanying the choir.

 

Are they still planning a nasty hybrid there?

 

 

Who can say?

They have possibly the most illustrious adviser possible on the job - if he has not resigned from this onerous duty to make time for more prestigious things.

Gosh, I am just so close to continuing.......

 

 

(gets coat.)

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If the Walker were to be restored, where in Pershore Abbey could it be situated? The area where it was has been used for another purpose. This was, I gather, part of the reason for removing it.

This is incorrect, the area where the organ formerly stood is free space. Visually the abbey is improved by its absence.

 

The present Bradford isn't all bad. The flutes and principals sound pretty good in the abbey accoustic, its really only when you build up to full swell and on towards the tutti that the sound becomes more disappointing and far less convincing. The specification is also a little odd, particularly the lack of a swell to choir coupler which reduces the usefulness of the choir organ considerably.

 

The abbey has had a considerable turnover with Directors of Music in recent years and is, I'm led to believe, not always a happy place.

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Guest Barry Williams

According to the church authorities, the pipe organ was removed to gain that space. I have only seen photographs of it with the organ and it is certainly lighter and less cluttered now.

 

I played the electronic instrument a year or two ago. Like all 'Bradford' instruments it was so out of tune that a proper assessment was almost impossible. The effect was of one great celeste. It might have been better if it had undergone proper voicing and tonal finishing, as well as being tuned. When I played rapid music the computer could not keep up with my fingers and feet. That deficiency is less noticeable when fewer couplers are drawn. Is that why there is no Swell to Choir? The 'Bradford' system uses a compounding of tones and is always weakest on ensemble. It is amazing, but some suppliers still use that method of tone generation. It was poor at its inception and subsequent modifications have made little discernable improvement to a flawed method.

 

The instrument was actually supplied by Makin. I think that Makin Ltd bought the Bradford company at about that time. The incumbent when the electronic was purchased was The Reverend Michael Tristram, at one time a solicitor and, of course, the son of Geoffrey Tristram, organist of Christchurch Priory.

 

The present vicar was a pupil of Virgil Fox and has a liking for excellent music. The Abbey is architecturally rather odd and there is no obvious place to put a pipe organ. The body of the church is what was the Chancel and the West space appears to have been the crossing. I was told that someone had the notion of suspending an organ over the West space.

 

Although I have a reasonable head for heights, I did not go to the bell ringing platform!

 

Barry Williams

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I was told that someone had the notion of suspending an organ over the West space.

 

Although I have a reasonable head for heights, I did not go to the bell ringing platform!

Paul's understanding, noted earlier, matches what I was told by David Barclay, the previous DOM, which was that the pipes of the proposed hybrid organ would be on the west wall.

 

I have no head for heights but once organised a bell ringing outing which included Pershore. By some force of will I made it onto the platform and took part in the ringing. It was an experience though not one which I enjoyed. The whole platform sways when the bells are in motion.

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Guest Barry Williams
Paul's understanding, noted earlier, matches what I was told by David Barclay, the previous DOM, which was that the pipes of the proposed hybrid organ would be on the west wall.

 

I have no head for heights but once organised a bell ringing outing which included Pershore. By some force of will I made it onto the platform and took part in the ringing. It was an experience though not one which I enjoyed. The whole platform sways when the bells are in motion.

 

 

You have my profound respect! Let us be grateful that organists are not required to play from such a platform!!!!!!

 

Barry Williams

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The abbey has had a considerable turnover with Directors of Music in recent years and is, I'm led to believe, not always a happy place.

 

...it didn't when the incumbent named above was there.

 

(PS Thanks Barry for pointing out the Christchurch connection, its not one I had correctly put two and two together before!)

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...it didn't when the incumbent named above was there.

 

(PS Thanks Barry for pointing out the Christchurch connection, its not one I had correctly put two and two together before!)

 

I was told that the said incumbent had an intense dislike of Makin 'Organs' Ltd, so the then managing director bought the Bradford company, delivered the 'Bradford' instrument in a van clearly labelled Makin 'Organs' Ltd and placed a prominent Makin label on the console.

 

It would be nice to be able to do that sort of thing in other contexts, though it was done to Kimber Allen many years ago by a school (and subsequntly by others,) as a result of a stance taken by the late Cyril Milton over certain matters.

 

Barry Williams

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I was told that the said incumbent had an intense dislike of Makin 'Organs' Ltd, so the then managing director bought the Bradford company, delivered the 'Bradford' instrument in a van clearly labelled Makin 'Organs' Ltd and placed a prominent Makin label on the console.

I can't say whether thats all true, but I've regularly used the organ in concerts over a number of years and in that time there has never been any label at all on the console to identify the manufacturer or supplier of the organ, neither is there any obvious patch where one may have been removed.

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The instrument was actually supplied by Makin. I think that Makin Ltd bought the Bradford company at about that time. The incumbent when the electronic was purchased was The Reverend Michael Tristram, at one time a solicitor and, of course, the son of Geoffrey Tristram, organist of Christchurch Priory.

 

 

 

Barry Williams

 

Hi

 

The "Bradford Company" doesn't exist as such. The technology is licensed to various digital organ builders - and is still owned, as far as I know, by Bradford University (and is still under development by the Comerfords). The implimentation of the technology is down to the licensees - some of whom make a better job than others.

 

The only specifically "Bradford" organs that I know of don't have nameplates - I don't know where they were bought from.

 

If anyone is interested, i can easily find the current situation, as I know the Comerfords well.

 

Incidentally, the same technology is at the heart of the Musicom system used by builders such as Copeman-Hart. Just as with pipe organs, the end result depends largely on the skill of the voicer (and the speaker system for digital organs).

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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Guest Barry Williams

There was at one time business entitled The Bradford Organ Company. It was that which was bought by John Robert Makin Pilling, the managing director of Makin 'Organs' Ltd. Presumably, it was a supplier of such instruments.

 

I disagree with you, Tony, about systems. The 'Bradford' system is utterly flawed. Indeed, it is so flawed that even in its latest version it cannot hope to emulate musical sounds. The basic design simply does not permit it to work. Moreover, there are serious maintenance problems with so complex a gadget.

 

In those few circumstances where an electronic instrument is suitable, a sound sampled system is far, far cheaper, better and easier (and less expensive) to maintain.

 

Barry Williams

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Hi

 

The "Bradford Company" doesn't exist as such. The technology is licensed to various digital organ builders - and is still owned, as far as I know, by Bradford University (and is still under development by the Comerfords). The implimentation of the technology is down to the licensees - some of whom make a better job than others.

 

The only specifically "Bradford" organs that I know of don't have nameplates - I don't know where they were bought from.

 

If anyone is interested, i can easily find the current situation, as I know the Comerfords well.

 

Incidentally, the same technology is at the heart of the Musicom system used by builders such as Copeman-Hart. Just as with pipe organs, the end result depends largely on the skill of the voicer (and the speaker system for digital organs).

 

Every Blessing

Tony

 

I was given to understand by someone in the know that the heart of the unique Musicom system was developed by Tony Koorlander. I knew of Copeman Hart and some other organ builders using the system, but are you really sure the system relies on the Bradford technology?

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There was at one time business entitled The Bradford Organ Company. It was that which was bought by John Robert Makin Pilling, the managing director of Makin 'Organs' Ltd. Presumably, it was a supplier of such instruments.

 

I disagree with you, Tony, about systems. The 'Bradford' system is utterly flawed. Indeed, it is so flawed that even in its latest version it cannot hope to emulate musical sounds. The basic design simply does not permit it to work. Moreover, there are serious maintenance problems with so complex a gadget.

 

In those few circumstances where an electronic instrument is suitable, a sound sampled system is far, far cheaper, better and easier (and less expensive) to maintain.

 

Barry Williams

 

 

I believe Makin Organs developed their own original system from the outset (having bought the electronic wing of the former John Compton Organ Company) and it was not based on the Bradford System. They are now part of the Johannus set-up and Makin instruments are, I am led to believe, now based on Johannus technology.

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