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Pierre Lauwers

20 Stops On Two Manuals

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I like this (except I don't like Harmonic Flutes and Sw Violes). But why the Bass Trumpet instead of a Contra Fagotto? Aren't you depriving yourself of a miniature Full Swell?

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I like this (except I don't like Harmonic Flutes and Sw Violes). But why the Bass Trumpet instead of a Contra Fagotto? Aren't you depriving yourself of a miniature Full Swell?

 

Ummm.... no; the Bass Trumpet is a chorus reed. I just do not like Fagotti - they sound like something you cook....

 

The Full Swell effect is arguably better with a true trumpet, rather than a double oboe - I have never been impressed by Full Swell effects which were based on 'a slender Contra Oboe', to quote Ralph Downes!

 

It is not intended that the Swell strings would be acidic or very thin in scale. Rather, that they are broad - but with more character than the sometimes colourless Salicional/Angelica recipe. I know that these are very restful - but they are also more bland.

 

With Gambi, I dislike stopped flutes, as I feel that they do not blend. I prefer a more Romantic flute. The Harmonic Flute on the Choir Organ at Coventry Cathedral is widely recognised to be the best stop on this superb organ. It is perhaps the most beautiful flute which I have ever heard.

 

Thank you for your comments, though, Vox Humana!

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Here again, it is very interesting to note we have

a rather "classic" great and a "romantic" Swell.

This happens quite often.

I personally think the stylistic difference between

the two is too big, not especially with Pcnd's specification

but in general.

We even have deeper Mixtures on the II than on the I,

which goes against the rules of the Werkprinzip as well

as the Abschwächungsprinzip's.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Here again, it is very interesting to note we have

a rather "classic" great and a "romantic" Swell.

This happens quite often.

I personally think the stylistic difference between

the two is too big, not especially with Pcnd's specification

but in general.

We even have deeper Mixtures on the II than on the I,

which goes against the rules of the Werkprinzip  as well

as the Abschwächungsprinzip's.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

 

Well, Pierre, there are sound reasons for this!

 

Firstly, the GO is not that 'classical', just 'English'. The chorus is 'straight-line', with normal English flutes. Actually, in an English organ, a Wald Flute would normally be considered a Romantic voice.

 

The Swell mixture - it should not be pitched higher, otherwise it will leave a large gap between itself and the foundations. I do not like low-pitched GO mixtures, as in practice, they rarely add anything above a fifteenth. With twenty stops, something had to be missed out, and my own choice was to do without a 2p stop on the Swell, in preference to a good contrast of 8p ranks. For service-playing, I would find this infinitely more useful thatn two balancing choruses, or the ability effectively to register trio sonati - not something in which I have ever been particularly interested!

 

Personally, I would prefer 'my' Swell to a chorus of Dulcianas!

 

I was not designing the instrument in terms of Werkprinzip - more as a general instrument to accompany the music and liturgy of the Anglican church - something I feel that it should do well!

 

In terms of what a British builder would do with such a stop-list, there is actually very little difference in style between the departments.

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Of course many an aspect can be discussed, no doubt,

ans things like "Truth" scarcely exist in organ-building.

Just one thing: do you know of any true baroque

or romantic organ with lower pitched Mixtures on

secondary manuals than on the I?

 

See for instance the very last Mander in Japan, whose

scales and details are available; the only difference

-on paper!- between the Great and the Swell Mixtures

is one rank less on the Swell: the deeper one.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Of course many an aspect can be discussed, no doubt,

ans things like "Truth" scarcely exist in organ-building.

Just one thing: do you know of any true baroque

or romantic organ with lower pitched Mixtures on

secondary manuals than on the I?

 

See for instance the very last Mander in Japan, whose

scales and details are available; the only difference

-on paper!- between the Great and the Swell Mixtures

is one rank less on the Swell: the deeper one.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

 

However, I was not designing it to be Baroque - or particularly Romantic. I was designing it to be useful and to produce the noises I wish for.

 

The GO mixture has the same ranks (at CC) as that on my own church organ. This is, simply, the best GO mixture which I have ever heard.

 

Ideally, I would wish for the Swell mixture to commence at 22-26-29. However, unless I am allowed one rank over and above the specified twenty, I cannot have a 2p stop - therefore, the Swell mixture has to start lower.

 

One has to think in therms of sound - not theories or rules! Most of the chorus-work at Buckfast Abbey should, in theory, sound dreadful. In practice, it works extremely well.

 

On my own church organ, there is no 2p principal on the third clavier - only a wide-scaled (and tapered) Blockflute - yet in the chorus (up to Cymbal 29-33-36), it works perfectly well!

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The Full Swell effect is arguably better with a true trumpet, rather than a double oboe - I have never been impressed by Full Swell effects which were based on 'a slender Contra Oboe', to quote Ralph Downes!
Yes, I guess it boils down to personal taste. I wouldn't want a Fagotto that is only a Contra Oboe - it needs more body than that - but personally I just find Double Trumpets a bit too thick. But of course it all depends on the voicing, not the stop name. Similarly with Salicionals. I don't think I've ever come across a Salicional I would call bland. Most are gently stringy and a perfectly viable partner for a Voix Celeste. To my mind the most appropriate partner for a Vox Angelica is a Dulciana (when I would agree that they are indeed too bland). But I daresay I just haven't been around enough. I could go with your full-bodied strings: I quite like French and modern German celestes.

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Mmmm - Bamberg Cathedral has a really nice Schwebung on the Schwellwerk and a lovely Suavial on the Rückpositiv.

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I was reading through this thread and thinking that it can't be all that hard to cobble together a 20 stop organ. But, boy, was I wrong! I found that it's a seriously difficult job to balance both chorus and colour within a stoplist of this size. My hat is very truly doffed to those who can achieve it in the real world.

 

For what it's worth, here's my 20 stop scheme:

 

Great (8): Quintaton 16'; Open Diapason 8'; Claribel Flute 8'; Principal 4'; Nason Flute 4'; Fifteenth 2'; Mixture III or III-IV; Cremona, 8'. Swell to Great.

 

Swell (9): Stopped Diapason 8'; Salicional 8'; Principal 4'; Rohrflote 4'; Nazard 2 2/3'; Cornet III; Mixture III; Bassoon 16'; Trumpet 8'. Tremulant.

 

Pedal (3): Sub-Bass 16'; Violoncello 8'; Trombone 16'. Great to Pedal; Great to Pedal, Octave; Swell to Pedal; Swell to Pedal, Octave; Swell Reeds on Pedal; Swell Reeds on Pedal, Octave.

 

I would envisage wind pressures of around 3 to 3 1/2" for the flues and Cremona, and perhaps a little higher for the Swell reeds and Trombone. The separate coupling of the Swell reeds to the Pedal, both at unison and octave level, should assist in creating a more versatile and independent division, which is otherwise very deficient. The Great to Pedal, Octave coupler would again give greater variety, and also permit solos eg. Cremona at 4' pitch (although such use would normally cripple the Great, and allow the hands only on the Swell manual).

 

Rgds

MJF

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Yes MJF,

 

This is extremely difficult, more so by far than say

45-50 stops on three manuals plus Pedal.

A silly question more:

 

Do we still believe two 8' flues pro manual are enough?

 

(Once again, I should not have closed the door to this sales representative

with his nuclear bomb shelter)

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Do we still believe two 8' flues per manual are enough?

 

Interesting.......the older I get the more I value (especially in service work) the choice of different possibilities from mixing 8s of different timbre - likewise 4s and to a lesser extend by adding 16s. This can of course be done by coupling divisions but when there are enough stops of a similar pitch to do this on one division (and they are not of too marked a difference in dynamics) then the possibilities are much greater.

'Not really part of this thread but as an example Gloucester Cathedral registered by combining 8s, 4s etc. across the divisions is a totally different beast from the same instrument with single pitches - chorus-wise etc. I remember hearing it when first rebuilt in the latter mode - now we tend to hear it more often in the former. The complexity of sound from massed 8s, 4s etc. (if the voicing is ok) can be exciting!

 

So maybe this might work:-

 

GREAT: 16Bourdon, 8OD, 8ClaribelF, 8Salic, 4Pr, 4HarmonicF, 2Fifteenth, 2Mixture III, 8Clarinet

SWELL: 8StoppedF, 8VDG, 8VoixC, 4Gemshorn, 2Flageolet - bright, 2-2/3 Cornet III - not too fluty, 8Oboe, 8Trumpet.

Plus a Swell Sub to Great perhaps - and a Tremulant

PEDAL: 16Sub Bass, 8OpFlute, 16Trombone.

The Great 16 could also be borrowed down as a quiete bass alternative

 

I used to play a Willis II at All Saints in Lincoln rather like this but as with all paper stoplists one can doodle for ever!

 

AJJ

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As an alternative, I was just thinking about an ACC-style French romantic scheme. Then it hit me that van den Heuvel installed a 24-stop IIP organ at the Royal Academy of Music in 1993. The stoplist is set out at their website http://vandenheuvel-orgelbouw.nl/. (Sorry, I'm very non-techie, and I still haven't worked out how to turn this into a hyperlink, or insert accents, or anything like that.) Maybe a cut-down version, with a few changes, along the following lines:

 

Pedale (3): Soubasse 16', Violoncelle 8', Basson, 16'

 

Grand-orgue (8): Bourdon, 16', Montre 8', Flute harmonique 8', Bourdon 8', Salicional 8', Prestant 4', Flute douce 4', Plein jeu V

 

Recit expressif (9): Flute traversiere 8', Gambe 8', Voix celeste 8', Flute octaviante 4', Octavin 2', Cornet V, Trompette 8', Basson-hautbois 8', Voix humaine 8'

 

Incidentally, I haven't heard the vdH at the Academy. What's it like?

 

Rgds,

MJF

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Sorry, I'm very non-techie, and I still haven't worked out how to turn this into a hyperlink, or insert accents, or anything like that.

Well, looks like half of my inability to cope with anything techie has been corrected automatically - the address I typed in magically became a URL!

 

Rgds,

MJF

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The ACC 'choir organ' type idea reminds me of something Schoenstein did at Our Mother of Good Counsel Church in LA in 1988 - there was a considerable ammount of study of instruments in France before its construction. It works really well:

 

GRAND ORGUE EXPRESSIF

Bourdon 16 Ex. Recit, Montre 8, Flute harmonique 8, Prestant 4, Octavin 2, Basson-Hautbois 8

 

RECIT EXPRESSIF

Bourdon 8, Viole de Gambe 8, Voix celeste 8, Flute octaviante 4, Trompette 8, Basson-Hautbois 8 GO.

Recit 4'

 

PEDAL

Bourdon 16 treble from Recit, Basse 8 GO Flute, Bourdon 8 Recit, Trompette 8 Recit, Basson 8 GO, Basson 4 GO.

 

R - GO

R - GO 4'

GO - P

R - P

 

Kurt Leuders recorded it on AFKA SK 514 and it shows what can be done with duplexing etc. but with a strong stylistic identity too.

 

AJJ

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Here is a very interesting 21-stops design by

Sauer, 1899:

 

HAUPTWERK

 

Bordun 16'

Prinzipal 8'

Gemshorn 8'

Flöte 8'

Gamba 8'

Dolce 8'

Oktave 4'

Rohrflöte 4'

Mixtur 4r (see note)

 

OBERWERK (NOT enclosed)

 

Geigend Prinzipal 8'

Gedackt 8'

Soloflöte 8'

Salizional 8'

Voix céleste 8'

Fugara 4'

Flauto dolce 4'

 

PEDAL

 

Subass 16'

Violon 16'

Oktave 8'

Bassflöte 8'

Posaune 16'

 

Pneumatic action

Forte, tutti

II/I

I to P, II to P

 

The Mixtur is disposed as follows:

 

C: 2 2/3'-2'-1 3/5'-1'

 

The Octaves 2' and 1' are made of Principal pipes

The Quint and the Tierce are made of large-scale Gedackt pipes.

 

This could be very interesting as a base for an organ for Brahms, Schumann...

Pierre

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A very difficult one, but I could live with this (dutch namingconvention for a change):

 

hoofdwerk:

bourdon 16

prestant 8

roerfluit 8

salicionaal 8

octaaf 4

fluit 4

cornet IV

trompet 8

 

zwelwerk:

diapason 8

holpijp 8

gamba 8

voix celeste 8

fluit harm. 4

nasard 2 2/3

piccolo 2

progressio II-V

trompet harm. 8

hobo 8

 

pedaal:

contrabas 16

bourdon 16 (tr. hoofdwerk)

open bas 8 (tr. prestant 8)

violon 8 (tr. salicionaal 8)

bazuin 16

trompet 8 (tr. hoofdwerk)

 

I+I 4

II+II 16

I+II 16/8/4

P+I

P+II

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I've thought up a typically English scheme of 20 stops. very traditional, no great surprises. But this should work well and do everything you could want of 20 stops:

 

Great

 

1. Bourdon 16

2. Open Diapason 8

3. Claribel Flute 8

4. Principal 4

5. Fifteenth 2

6. Sesquialtera II 2 2/3 + 1 3/5

7. Mixture IV 2'

8. Trumpet 8 Harmonic Trebles

i. Swell to Great

 

Swell Organ

 

9. Violin Diapason 8

10. Stopped Diapason 8

11. Celestes 8 (against violin Diapason)

12. Principal 4

13. Chimney Flute 4

14. Piccolo 2

15. Mixture IV 2' (including tierce)

16. Trumpet 8

17. Oboe 8

ii. Tremulant

iii. Swell Octave

iv. Swell Sub Octave

v. Unison Off

 

Pedal Organ

 

18. Bourdon 16

19. Octave 8

20. Trombone 16

vi. Great to Pedal

vii. Swell to Pedal

 

Willis Floating Lever action (I'm not having octave couples with mechanical action)

 

Diapason scales would be based on Dom Bedos scales, 1/4 mouth widths, fairly generous scale at the unison. Progressive ranks up in pitch would be a bit smaller, quints & tierces smaller still.

The bourdon would progress from a wooden stopped bass to a chimney metal treble

The Clarible flute would be wood, of fairly moderate scale.

The stopped diapason would have a metal chimney treble.

the piccolo would go through a chimney bass to be open, possibly tapering in the treble.

Swell trumpet narrower scale than the Great trumpet.

Swell oboe would be capped and be of very smooth tone.

Swell octave couplers would also work when played from great.

Pedal ranks of moderate scale - only a few pipes larger than great. Octave might be of wood.

Trombone would be of moderate wooden scale and fairly dark tone.

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Dobson etc. are doing similar things to the above in the USA - almost English style with 'attitude'. This one is at Graham Elliot's church - formerly of Chelmsford Cathedral.

 

http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instrument..._rockcreek.html

 

AJJ

Interesting. They are pretty similar. I designed mine to be ideal for choral accompaniment - hence 4' swell flute, quite a lot of 8' tone, 8 swell oboe, etc. Just needs an easily accessible clarinet. I also liked the comment about "and thinks like a large organ even though it is relatively small." I would hope mine does the same.

 

However, I'm interested to note the comments on the Dobson about the prominent quints in the swell mixture. I was asked to keep mutations out of choral accompaniment registrations (esp. psalms) as over a long-held notes, they can clash with the impure 5ths of the keyboard temperament. I would have thought an organ designed with a high priority for choral work would not have made a feature of a "quinty" mixture in the swell.

 

i was glad to read the "Flageolet" was cheerful, too. :o

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mixture. I was asked to keep mutations out of choral accompaniment registrations (esp. psalms)

 

By whom? Must be a pretty good choir if they're worried about tuning imperfections against a mixture/mutation!

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Indeed!

 

Certainly, one would not normally wish to accompany Psalms using separate mutation ranks added to foundation stops, but occasionally a mixture is quite useful. The 'frosty' verses in the Benedicite are a case in point. On my own instrument, for these sections, I often alternate between the Swell chorus up to Fifteenth (with or without the Twelfth), occasionally with the Octave coupler and chorus up to mixture (22-26-29), with or without the Octave coupler. Naturally, one needs to be careful with balance and I tend to keep a very tight rein on the Swell expression pedal. However, my Swell has a superb box and shutters (and is linked mechanically) and so control is relatively easy.

 

Having said that, for providing a descant to a Psalm verse (or half a verse), I do like to use the 8p and 4p flutes, with the Quint 2 2/3p on the lowest clavier. This is a very beautlful sound, which contrasts well with the voices.

 

Personally, I an not convinced of the practical usefulness of the scheme put forward by Colin Harvey. I fint the Swell too flute-based and the GO lacking in flutes. In an instrument of this size, I also feel that two chorus trumpets (hovever contrasted in voicing) are somewhat of a luxury.

 

I am also un-convinced by the Swell undulant. I know that Mander's resorted to a similar expedient at Holborn, (although theirs was achieved by supplying the Swell Diapason with a reduced wind supply). There are also the examples on the Swell Organs of York Minster, Lincoln Cathedral and apparently King's (Cambridge), where a second diapason rank has been tuned to beat with its partner. However, in an organ such as this, it would be far more useful to have a Viola (or a Salicional or Gamba) and a separate, but similar-toned Céleste rank.

 

I am puzzled by the proposed construction of the Swell Piccolo - why have a stopped bass, (with pierced stoppers or chimneys), which then becomes open - and tapered towards the treble end of the compass?

 

There is also the lack of a secondary chorus. I can see little point in the Swell mixture containing a tierce rank - particularly when there is a Sesquialtera on the GO - but no 4p flute! The Claribel Flute, if voiced true to its name, is not perhaps the best foundation upon which to add a Sesquialtera. Whilst there are a number of interpretations of this once-common GO flute, ranging from FHW through to a nasty, hooty example by .... (fill-in appropriate name), the timbre of the stop, taken generally, is not particularly good in combination - particularly with quasi-classical voices.

 

A wooden Octave on the Pedal Organ is one of my pet hates. I think that it was Norman Sterret, writing in The Organ, who said that he viewed this rank as the last unmusical register to be retained from the Romantic period - or something to that effect.

 

With regard to the octave couplers - on an organ of this size, I would find greater versatility if the octave couplers did not automatically play-through the unison couplers. Separate octave couplers to the GO (and an Octave coupler to the Pedal) would increase the usefulness of certain stops. For example, the provision of an expressive reed at 4p pitch as a voice sounding on the Pedal clavier, for Chorale Preludes.

 

One further thought - surely there is little point in specifying diapason scales (or, for that matter, any scales) until the location of the instrument and the acoustic properties of the building in which it is to speak are made known.

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Indeed!

 

Certainly, one would not normally wish to accompany Psalms using separate mutation ranks added to foundation stops, but occasionally a mixture is quite useful. The 'frosty' verses in the Benedicite are a case in point. On my own instrument, for these sections, I often alternate between the Swell chorus up to Fifteenth (with or without the Twelfth), occasionally with the Octave coupler and chorus up to mixture (22-26-29), with or without the Octave coupler. Naturally, one needs to be careful with balance and I tend to keep a very tight rein on the Swell expression pedal. However, my Swell has a superb box and shutters (and is linked mechanically) and so control is relatively easy.

 

Having said that, for providing a descant to a Psalm verse (or half a verse), I do like to use the 8p and 4p flutes, with the Quint 2 2/3p on the lowest clavier. This is a very beautlful sound, which contrasts well with the voices.

 

Personally, I an not convinced of the practical usefulness of the scheme put forward by Colin Harvey. I fint the Swell too flute-based and the GO lacking in flutes. In an instrument of this size, I also feel that two chorus trumpets (hovever contrasted in voicing) are somewhat of a luxury.

 

I am also un-convinced by the Swell undulant. I know that Mander's resorted to a similar expedient at Holborn, (although theirs was achieved by supplying the Swell Diapason with a reduced wind supply). There are also the examples on the Swell Organs of York Minster, Lincoln Cathedral and apparently King's (Cambridge), where a second diapason rank has been tuned to beat with its partner. However, in an organ such as this, it would be far more useful to have a Viola (or a Salicional or Gamba) and a separate, but similar-toned Céleste rank.

 

I am puzzled by the proposed construction of the Swell Piccolo - why have a stopped bass, (with pierced stoppers or chimneys), which then becomes open - and tapered towards the treble end of the compass?

 

There is also the lack of a secondary chorus. I can see little point in the Swell mixture containing a tierce rank - particularly when there is a Sesquialtera on the GO - but no 4p flute! The Claribel Flute, if voiced true to its name, is not perhaps the best foundation upon which to add a Sesquialtera. Whilst there are a number of interpretations of this once-common GO flute, ranging from FHW through to a nasty, hooty example by .... (fill-in appropriate name), the timbre of the stop, taken generally, is not particularly good in combination - particularly with quasi-classical voices.

 

A wooden Octave on the Pedal Organ is one of my pet hates. I think that it was Norman Sterret, writing in The Organ, who said that he viewed this rank as the last unmusical register to be retained from the Romantic period - or something to that effect.

 

With regard to the octave couplers - on an organ of this size, I would find greater versatility if the octave couplers did not automatically play-through the unison couplers. Separate octave couplers to the GO (and an Octave coupler to the Pedal) would increase the usefulness of certain stops. For example, the provision of an expressive reed at 4p pitch as a voice sounding on the Pedal clavier, for Chorale Preludes.

 

One further thought - surely there is little point in specifying diapason scales (or, for that matter, any scales) until the location of the instrument and the acoustic properties of the building in which it is to speak are made known.

Some interesting questions here and some interesting thoughts and comments. I think some are very good points with a lot of thought behind them while others I find are rather subjective. For eaxmple, I know of a few instruments where the use of 8+4 flutes from the swell plus great twelfth would be distressingly harsh.

 

In response to the other questions:

 

2 chorus trumpets: yes, luxury, but a luxury I would be keen to have. Very useful for French romantic music and terracing the choruses. It also gives the impression of a big organ from a small number of stops. I've had to live with an organ of 23 stops with no great reeds (or mixture) and found the lack very wanting. We could, I guess, perhaps have a clarinet on the great instead. The more forthright examples can add an extra clang to the ensemble and the upperwork can help give the impression of a trumpet. Examples where this works well include the Tickell at Honiton and I've come across a few other examples. It could also be used as a solo but if it's forthright, probably more of Cremona than a refined clarinet.

 

flute disposition: I elected to put the 4' flute on the swell, where I find it is currently useful to have one to appear above 8 foundations and under control of the swell box. A 4' Gt flute would be very nice and would figure highly with me, especially for more variety of 8 & 4 combinations, but I've lived with lots of small organs without (like this 23 stop organ I without great reeds or mixtures) and in balence, this is sacrifice I would be happy to make. Since the 4' flute was on the swell, it made sense to add a 2' flute for a complete flute chorus and the 8 + 2 combinations so useful in the "parish choir" music of John Rutter :unsure:

 

You have got 16 & 8 flutes on the Gt, which could possibly be used up an octave. However, it might be a bit top-heavy if the 8' flute is a claribel. Regarding the claribel, I would want a small, light one, like the earlier Willis ones rather than the big, thick hooters we don't like.

 

Sesquialteras belong to the principal family and I would expect them to work with the principals first and foremost and with the flutes as an added bonus. So I don't think a 4' flute is lacking for this reason.

 

Swell Undulant; no, that's not a swell undulant you see. It is actually a celeste to work with the violin diapason but in retrospect, I see no reason why it shouln't be a flute celeste. I'm not a great fan of the salicional/gambe + flute foundation stops one often sees on modern organs, much prefering an open diapason to build the chorus rather than sacrifice full bodied foundation stops for the celeste. Get the choruses right first, then add the nice treats like celestes! I think a salicional + celeste is a rather unjustified luxury in an organ this size and I find that salicionals get swamped by anything larger than an echo lieblich gedact with the box shut. So I'll have a single rank beating against one of the foundation stops to give the impression of a celeste. It's not as if you have't got a swell box. A good example of the celeste I have in mind is on the Mander at Gray's Inn. It's very effective. On a small organ I would not dedicate 10% of the stops to a celeste at the expense of the good foundation stops.

 

Onto another point, there is a secondary chorus - of violin diapson, principal and 2' mixture on the swell. I've played organs with tierces in their mixtures and wouldn't say that they are not choruses. So I don't agree with pcnd here. If you go for gambe/salicionals for your celestes, you get an even less satisfactory secondary chorus....

 

I tihnk it was David Coram who nominated wooden pedal octaves as the least musical stop on this forum and I agree with him. But our experience is based on the woolly octave extensions of 16 open woods, which are generally horrible. However, some modern builders are using wooden octaves of small scale and prompt, clear speech - Ken tickell is an advocate - which they cite as adding to a bourdon to give the impression of a 16 Open Diapason - a bit like a helper bass. they are very useful and effective. So that's what I was thinking here.

 

As regards octave couplers - yes, I can quite see pcnd's point. Given the option between the 2, I prefer couplers that couple through intermanual couplers rather than those that don't. Instead of swell octave to pedal for a 4' solo from the swell 8s, it's normal enough to use swell to pedal, with the swell octave and unison off. but what pcnd suggests is the ideal, even if I don't particularly like organ consoles with a plethora of octave couplers, especially on 2 manuals.

 

Regarding scales, I think there is some purpose giving some idea of what I'd like, especially as Pierre gave an idea of the church it was going in: a continental church, which generally are more lofty and spacious than british churches. I'm waiting for someone to bite on the dom bedos scales....

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Indeed Colin,

 

The idea was: a british organ for

a continental, vast church, west-end position.

Pierre

That being so, I would prefer to have the swell positioned above the Great. I hope that there is sufficient height in the church so the temperature gradient from top to bottom of the church is such that there is an insignificant temperature difference between the swell pipes and the great pipes.

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