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Which Organ Would You Most Want To Marry?

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Yes!

 

You are still thinking in terms of the chord resolving - it does not do this! It is providing a fake 32p effect!

 

In G major, a dominant ninth consists of D, F#, A C and E. Honestly.

 

G9 (if you prefer) is G, B, D, F and A. The label is not dependent on what follows - merely on the constituent notes of the chord.

 

If you think in your terms, you will, in one fell swoop, undermine the entire system of jazz chord notation.

 

Well, a part of it!

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You are still thinking in terms of the chord resolving - it does not do this! It is providing a fake 32p effect!

 

 

Presumably all you're doing is adding the harmonics that would normally be present if using a 32, which tricks the ear into hearing the fundamental note that doesn't really exist?

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On a dull sounding flute (i.e. not too many harmonics) you need:

 

10 2/3 (I find you can sometimes drop this whn the pedal drops below bottom F)

6 2/5 (that's octave and major 3rd above the note)

4 4/7 (that's an octave and flattened 7th)

Those are the major ones

 

a ninth can also be added, plus other octaves, 3rths and 5ths as appropriate to get the right sound.

 

for an example, here are some I use:

 

Registration: full pedal (flues and reeds 16,8,4), full great, Gt to Pd (helps that the swell doesn't really add much to full great). Swell 8' flute.

 

Pedal: Bottom F

LH on Swell: bottom C, A, eb (so you're basically stretching a minor 10th)

 

Pedal: bottom E

LH on Swell: bottom G#, d (natural), f#

 

These are usually quite comfortable and easy to hit. You need to experiment to get the right registrations and notes in the LH to get the best effect.

 

So next time you play a miniscule 2 man + Ped, really impress people!!

 

I can't help feel a 32' cornet like this would have been more effective at Southwell than the electronic reed...

 

Choral Evensong from St Pauls is good today. I like the Bingham anthem.

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Aaagghh... I can see both sides! In the context we're using the chord it's not resolving.

 

But, if someone played me this chord in the middle octave and asked me to describe what happened next... just as G,B,E,F is known by as "G7" and a "dominant 7th in C major"?

 

Correct, Adrian

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Indeed, Colin.

 

I agree - except that I did not like the anthem (or the voluntary, for that matter). I also thought that the organ sounded less like St. Paul's than I ever remember it doing before.

 

On different organs, one can find any number of interesting effects.

 

On mine, I can fake a quiet, purring 32p flue for the keys of A and B-flat major, by playing the tonic and the sixth below - on the Bourdon with no couplers. It fooled my recording engineer on one of my CD tracks!

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Aaagghh... I can see both sides!  In the context we're using the chord it's not resolving. 

 

But, if someone played me this chord in the middle octave and asked me to describe what happened next... just as G,B,E,F is known by as "G7" and a "dominant 7th in C major"?

 

Correct, Adrian

 

Nah! Apart from the fact that there is nothing 'next' as you have presumably just played the final chord of a piece, the label still stands.

 

I have to play from jazz chord tablature occasionally when accompanying (for example) saxophonists - the labels are always as I have described - honest!

 

If you are 'in' G major and you play G, B, D and F - it should correctly be described as a tonic seventh, or I7, if you prefer. (The '7' should be in sub-script, but there is no facility for that, here.)

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Unfortunately, my connection failed before the voluntary at the end. What was it? The organ didn't sound as I remember St Pauls either. wonder where the mikes were....

 

I know some people (David, Geoff) tell me they can fake a 32' purr in B by playing an uncoupled 16' bourdon on C - usually the pitch difference fools most. I'm sure they're right but yet to get it to work for me. B)

 

I'll try the pcnd trick...

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Guest Barry Oakley

Indeed, Colin.

 

I agree - except that I did not like the anthem (or the voluntary, for that matter). I also thought that the organ sounded less like St. Paul's than I ever remember id doing before.

 

I believe they are missing John Scott. It sounds like it.

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Unfortunately, my connection failed before the voluntary at the end. What was it? The organ didn't sound as I remember St Pauls either. wonder where the mikes were....

 

I know some people (David, Geoff) tell me they can fake a 32' purr in B by playing an uncoupled 16' bourdon on C - usually the pitch difference fools most. I'm sure they're right but yet to get it to work for me. B)

 

I'll try the pcnd trick...

 

I think that it was a Toccata by Jiri Ropek (with appropriate accents). I am afraid that it just did not do anything for me....

 

I hope that the 32p trick works for you!

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Geoff Morgan showed me & Colin Harvey this & a couple of other tricks that have changed our lives for good.

 

Yes, I was shown this trick at Guildford Cathedral too - I think it was on a fat Hohl Flute 8'. I wouldn't have believed such an effect were possible - I was completely deceived.

 

And I believe a large church in the south of England is soon to have a Bass Cornet reinstated. B)

 

Graham

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In addition to a Swell keen string and a Nave Harmonic Flute and a spot of revoicing - again....

 

Of course, this is just a rumour....

 

B)

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Guest Lee Blick

Sorry, I'm not sure what the point is of trying to fake a 32'. Either you have one on your organ or you don't.

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Sorry, I'm not sure what the point is of trying to fake a 32'.  Either you have one on your organ or you don't.

 

Surely that is exactly the point!

 

If you have one, you do not need to - if you do not, then I can think of numerous times, and many different pieces of music, where I feel that the end result was enhanced by employing various subterfuges, in order to achieve a 32p effect.

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Sorry, I'm not sure what the point is of trying to fake a 32'.  Either you have one on your organ or you don't.

Pah! Killjoy Gedact.

 

Yes, I guess that faking 32s falls into the catergory of irrelevancy that 32 open woods also inhabit - i.e. they get thrown out of Gloucester Cathedral by controversial organ consultants .... errr, but hang on ....

 

It is cheating and very immature, I'm sure, really. And it could be tasteless if overused or used inappropriately.

 

However, what is wrong with organists getting more out of the instrument at their disposal than is really there? There's no rule against it and sometimes it's very effective to cheat. Those that know what's going on will be mildly amused and those that don't won't mind - they may even be impressed. And it's much better option than having a digital 32' reed added to your organ.

 

I guess some may see it in the same class as improvising on "inappropriate" theme tunes rather than the gregorian plainchant set out in Graduale Romanum for the day. Depends on your point of view.

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In addition to a Swell keen string and a Nave Harmonic Flute and a spot of revoicing - again....

 

Of course, this is just a rumour....

 

B)

Ah, yes I believe they are trying to revert the organ back to an earlier known state, as it was in the 1950s. All in the name of historical reconstruction, so I'm told. :P

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Ah, yes I believe they are trying to revert the organ back to an earlier know state, as it was in the 1950s. All in the name of historical authenticity. B)

 

Ummm.... no - it is because it was unsatisfactory in many aspects after the rebuild which saw it re-instated.

 

There has never been a desire on Geoffrey Morgan's part to return to historical accuracy - as far as I know!

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Pah! Killjoy Gedact.

 

Yes, I guess that faking 32s falls into the catergory of irrelevancy that 32 open woods also inhabit - i.e. they get thrown out of Gloucester Cathedral by controversial organ consultants .... errr, but hang on ....

 

It is cheating and very immature, I'm sure, really. And it could be tasteless if overused or used inappropriately.

 

However, what is wrong with organists getting more out of the instrument at their disposal than is really there? There's no rule against it and sometimes it's very effective to cheat. Those that know what's going on will be mildly amused and those that don't won't mind - they may even be impressed. And it's much better option than having a digital 32' reed added to your organ.

 

I guess some may see it in the same class as improvising on "inappropriate" theme tunes rather than the gregorian plainchant set out in Graduale Romanum for the day. Depends on your point of view.

 

Well, Colin - I agree with you! I think that a good organist will use whatever means he can in order to get the best out of the instrument on which he is playing.

 

I also agree that this is infinitely preferable to adding a digital 'anything'. The only digital thing I desire on an organ, is the digital piston channel display.

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Surely that is exactly the point!

 

If you have one, you do not need to - if you do not, then I can think of numerous times, and many different pieces of music, where I feel that the end result was enhanced by employing various subterfuges, in order to achieve a 32p effect.

It's hardly a world away from drawing an Acoustic Bass stop, is it?

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I think that it was a Toccata by Jiri Ropek (with appropriate accents).

 

====================

 

 

That would be Jiří Ropek .....I haven't studied the Czech thing for nothing!!

 

B)

 

MM

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It's hardly a world away from drawing an Acoustic Bass stop, is it?

 

With care the effect can be far more effective!

 

An Acoustic Bass is one of the most crude methods of faking 32p tone. Often the quint is obtained from the same rank as the fundamental, resulting in a heavy clearly fifth-oriented sound. Osmonds occasionally went one stage worse than this. I know of at least one organ in which the Acoustic Bass played the lowest F down to C# of the 16p Open Diapason (W), on the top five notes of a 30-note pedal clavier. The lowest two octaves acted on the 16p and 10 2/3p pitches together - result? Nonsense!

 

On my own church instrument, I am able to fake many different 32p effects in a number of keys, all more effective than any Acoustic Bass I have ever heard. Most of these effects are contradictory to that which is said not to work effectively.

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Ummm.... no - it is because it was unsatisfactory in many aspects after the rebuild which saw it re-instated.

 

There has never been a desire on Geoffrey Morgan's part to return to historical accuracy - as far as I know!

Well, I suspect he might have been pulling my leg a bit...

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This is, of course, entirely possible....

 

I suspect that he has little intention of re-instating the 'play-pen' in which the former Compton console used to reside, for a start!

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