Console Design Again

[pcnd5584]

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Well I would agree that H & H consoles tend to be superb to play, but for the seriously big jobs, I tend to think that the horshoe stop-key layout is the best.

 

It always astonishes me how some top-notch theatre organ performers can use the double-touch keys, cancellers, hand-registration, effects buttons, toe pistons, general crescendo pedal, sustainers, sforzando devices, double-touch pistons, suitable-bass tabs, multiple tremulants (etc etc) and still make music.

 

The problem for the visiting organists is actually knowing what everything does, where it is and knowing how to use it, and I expect that applies to the larger US jobs also.

 

However, one thing I can tell board-members, ( I know some people despise theatre organs), being able to control a large theatre-organ is the best lesson in console control possible, and I know that certain Mr Curley agrees with me.

 

But for basic ergonomics, I can't fault a H & H console.

 

MM

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I have never played a theatre-type instrument, so I cannot be sure! Surely the same is true of a draw-stop console?

 

It was said either by Francis Jackson of Bairstow - or of Francis Jackson by someone I cannot recall - that watching him accompany the Minster Choir, particularly in Psalms, was a fascinating and rewarding experience. A hand would continually dart about, pulling and pushing stops (and occasionally pressing pistons) , yet the music would be seamless.

 

Personally I absolutely hate stop-key consoles - of all types. Apart from the fact that I find then aesthetically displeasing, I do not find them any easier to manage than draw-stop consoles. With enough practice, it should be possible to perform miracles on any type of console - except, perhaps, an old Dutch or German type, with wide, flat stop-jambs.

 

There is also a psychological advantage of draw-stops for me, at any rate. The satisfaction of reaching up for a 32p reed (or even a Trombone) at a moment of climax (such as the final fugal entry of the Fugue in D major, Op. 59, No. 6. by Reger) is infinitely more satisfying than flicking briefly at something which resembles an old cow's tooth. The more substantial action also seems to give the stop a greater authority, too. This is something with which I know that a number of colleagues concur.

 

I can see no advantage for a visiting organist for stop-keys over draw-stops. All that is needed is a clear and logical layout - and a minimum of gauges and gadgets.

 

There is, of course, the associated point: that many of the things which a theatre organist is called-upon to do (regarding console management) are extremely unlikely to be required of his church organ-playing colleague. In a number of respects, they are two quite different disciplines.

[MusingMuso]

It was said either by Francis Jackson of Bairstow - (or of Francis Jackson by someone I cannot recall) that watching him accompany the Minster Choir, particularly in Psalms, was a fascinating and rewarding experience. A hand would continually dart about, pulling and pushing stops (and occasionally pressing pistons) , yet the music would be seamless.

 

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A small tear trickled down my cheek for a moment.....I've been there, and watched the master at work.

 

"Francis" taught us ALL how to accompany psalms, and not many people know, but he had memorised the words of the psalms from beginning to end; I "think" during the war, or so the story goes.

 

Consequently, he never needed to look at the words or the pointing, and was thus free to explore the organ-world of "feathered fowls" and "things that move in the water".....thus Whales were 16ft reeds, and the fowls of the air were the twittering flutes in an improvised and masterly descant.

 

Never before, or since, has anyone come close to his genius at "doing psalms."

 

Of course, not many people ever came close to his ability to "play to the gallery" a little.

 

I recall a special moment, when three visitors graced (or disgraced) the organ-loft at York, as the master arrived in the console and the assistant departed. There he was, changing his shoes, with the responses about to pounce into sight.

 

With one hand, a facing away from the console, he would draw the Dulciana, turn to the nearest visiting organist and ask, "Would you be kind enough to give them an "A?"

 

Priceless moments followed, as he would fumble with his laces. Then the psalm would be anounced, and "Francis" was still sitting the wrong way round on the organ-bench. With a deft twist, he would flick a piston, play the first chord of the chant, and as the choir began to sing, swing his legs over the organ-bench and put on the definitive "this is how to accompany a psalm" show.

 

It was difficult not to gasp with admiration at his very special skills, but of course it was always the final voluntary which thrilled beyond measure.

 

Special days indeed!

 

MM

[pcnd5584]

What a wonderful story!

 

Thank you, MM!

[Guest Lee Blick]

The satisfaction of reaching up for a 32p reed (or even a Trombone) at a moment of climax

 

I'm with you totally 100% there.

 

It doesn't quite have the same effect with cows teeth. On tab organs maybe they should cover these climatic stops with gold leaf or something to make them extra special.

[Vox Humana]

Never before, or since, has anyone come close to his genius at "doing psalms."

Then you can never have heard Francis's very good friend Sidney Campbell. Campbell had exactly the same approach and flair. He, too, knew all the words and pointing off by heart. (They used to do daily Matins in those days of course and after a few years of constant repetition you could hardly help but absorb virtually the whole psalter.) Campbell's Psalm accompaniments were both virtuosic and kaleidoscopic. He would play the first two verses of the psalm as per the chant book to get the choir going. After that anything could - and did - happen. The chords would be would be constantly rearranged in different positions - now clustered at the top of the keyboard with Clarinet solo in the left hand, now down in the tenor register with a 4ft flute solo in the right. Then before you had time to draw breath he'd be improvising a descant on the Pedal Kornet. The colours and textures were constantly changing. And all without batting an eyelid - and without producing any consecutive fifths or octaves. A great man.

[pcnd5584]

Now that I would very much like to have seen!

 

What an experience!

[AJJ]

Likewise Philip Marshall at Lincoln - he was still in charge (just) when we moved there in the early 80s and his console control - psalms especially - was a revelation. In a different way a service at the console at St Albans with Peter Hurford playing was an interesting experience too - all the hymn verses were harmonized differently for a start. 'Not sure how the choir coped with this though.

 

AJJ

[pcnd5584]

...In a different way a service at the console at St Albans with Peter Hurford playing was an interesting experience too - all the hymn verses were harmonized differently for a start. 'Not sure how the choir coped with this though.

 

AJJ

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This is slightly odd! I doubt that it made him greatly popular in the back row.... I do know of another cathedral organist who, when playing hymns, would play very low down on the claviers, with plenty of sub-unison tone and double tenor and bass parts - and often add extra (doubled) notes. The effect was.... un-edifying.

[pcnd5584]

Deja vu, we've discussed this before.

 

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Mmmm.... but not as much as we have Worcester!

 

Talking of which - has anyone noticed from the current issue of Choir & Organ that a Rodgers has been installed in the quire - presumably in place of the pipe organ. I had a cursory glance at the accompanying picture and, whilst I could not swear to it, I do believe that the cream-coloured curtain formerly around the console enclosure has been removed. This may suugest that the console has also been removed.

 

Oh God - I mentioned it again....

 

Bad Dobby.

 

BIFF!

[Malcolm Farr]

Norman Cocker - the Manchester Cathedral organist of Tuba Tune fame - was rather before my time, but I recall reading somewhere that, with both hands otherwise engaged in playing, he managed to nudge a drawstop in with his nose, or chin, or some other facial appendage. Now that would have been a sight to behold!

 

I defy anyone to equal that feat with tabs ...

 

Rgds,

MJF

[Malcolm Farr]

And then there's the story - possibly apocryphal, but one never knows - of the blind chap who had just a little difficulty with Compton's illuminated controls ...

 

Rgds,

MJF

[MusingMuso]

Norman Cocker - the Manchester Cathedral organist of Tuba Tune fame - was rather before my time, but I recall reading somewhere that, with both hands otherwise engaged in playing, he managed to nudge a drawstop in with his nose, or chin, or some other facial appendage.  Now that would have been a sight to behold!

 

I defy anyone to equal that feat with tabs ...

 

Rgds,

MJF

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Well...."aye" have operated thumb-pistons with my knee from time to time.

 

Simon Lindley is very adept at knocking stops off with his elbows, and I know of one organist who would head-butt things when the going got tough.

 

One lady organist in America admitted that, being rather "amply proportioned" (big bits) she often played the Great manual unintentionally whilst leaning forwards to play the Solo!!

 

The more athletic extroverts (show-offs) have been know to use toes to push in

stops. I have seen it done but cannot reall where.

 

A little removed from "our" world maybe, but the "Blackpool cascade" has to be seen to be believed, when the organist at the "Tower Ballroom" plays something like "The old piano rag" and literally bounces up and down 3-manuals, thus enabling different percussion to sound on-beat and off-beat as appropriate.

 

Of course, THE WORST is when parts of other people do strange things.

 

I recall playing Bach and grinding to a halt in the belief that I had a cypher on the pedals. The "cypher" wore tiny dungarees, and was crawling across the pedal-board!!

 

MM

[john carter]

And then there's the story - possibly apocryphal, but one never knows - of the blind chap who had just a little difficulty with Compton's illuminated controls ...

 

Rgds,

MJF

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Actually you could tell when a stop was "on" because the head of the button got quite warm. The disadvantage was the moment you didn't realise the Trombone was drawn because the bulb had blown!

[Tubular_pneumatic]

In another thread Tubular Pneumatic made the interesting comment that he much preferred high English consoles to the low-level American ones. Neither is the exclusive preserve of one nation, but I know what he means: as a generalisation the distinction is valid. My heart warms to our American friend: I wholeheartedly agree!

 

Greetings,

 

Although this should be taken with a grain of salt, I must say that I can only think of one large console built by an American firm which featured divisional knobs grouped into two columns; the 1915 J.W. Steere console for the Newberry Memorial Organ at Woolsey Hall. Of course, this console has not been extant for seventy-eight years. For the purposes of the preceeding statements I would define a "large" console in this case as one that would ordinarily "require" expansion into three or four-column divisions according to American practice on account of the number of draw knobs.

 

Normally I would suspect that our tendency for "squat" consoles stems from the all-in-one nature of our organists; needing to direct Choirs from the bench. However, I can't think of any American builder of any era that adopted the two-column ideal; not even the Richard Whitelegg Mollers.

 

Pity.

 

- Nathan

[Murton]

On the subject of consoles, has anyone else come across the HNB compact consoles where you pushed the manuals into the console before you put the roll top down.  It is very dinky.

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Tried one once - Wheathampstead in Herts I think...

Re low consoles - HNB put one in at Luton in the 70's - with slightly raked keyboards - probably one of the easiest consoles to control with the stops in 3 rows. Everything to hand - and you can see over the top!

[heva]

For my money (not much actually!) the most gorgeous consoles I have seen in recent years seem to be coming from Hungary. Low-level, ampitheatre stop layouts in really snazzy contemporary designs with natural waxed finish. As for some of the contemporary organ-cases, they are just BEEEEUDIFUL.

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Links are welcome !

[nfortin]

I'm just back from another evensong in Hereford and I must say that I find the Willis III console (recently refurbished by H&H) one of the most comfortable I've ever come across. It is quite difficult, as an infrequent visitor, to find the couplers that you want (there being a huge number arranged horizontally as rocker tabs above the solo manual), but nevertheless I find that I settle in and am "at home" with this console more quickly than just about any other I can think of. (It must be one of the few places where you play from a broom cupboard and you risk life and limb carrying an executive case-full of music up and down the precarious stair case!)

 

I would generally agree (apologies to our host) that H&H consoles are a league apart, and, dare I say, the place we don't mention is a case in point.

[pcnd5584]

...([Hereford] must be one of the few places where you play from a broom cupboard and you risk life and limb carrying an executive case-full of music up and down the precarious stair case!)

 

I would generally agree (apologies to our host) that H&H consoles are a league apart, and, dare I say, the place we don't mention is a case in point.

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I presume that the humdreds of postcards put up over many years by Roy Massey, no longer adorn the stairwell and the loft itself?

 

With reference to you-know-where, I, too, found the console exceedingly comfortable - except for the silly music-desk; this consisted of a frame, rest and hooks. I would have preferred a solid desk, which was also wider.

 

However, I fear that this console is no more. Look closely at the advert for the Rodgers toaster currently in use - behind and just visible, is the upper part of the old console enclosure. It appears that the curtain has been removed and, I suspect, the old H&H console. If this is the case, I wonder what has happened to it - all that ivory....

[Andrew Lucas]

I would generally agree (apologies to our host) that H&H consoles are a league apart, and, dare I say, the place we don't mention is a case in point.

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Yes there is only one thing better than an H & H console ... and that's an H & H console with curved stop jambs!

[MusingMuso]

Links are welcome !

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I have pretty photos, but I can't recall from whence they came!

 

I shall work on this if possible, but it may take time.

 

MM

[pcnd5584]

Yes there is only one thing better than an H & H console ... and that's an H & H console with curved stop jambs!

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Oh yes! Coventry, Manchester, Colston Hall - and, of course, your own instrument!

 

I am still not sure about the 'Jersey cow' look, apparently favoured for Coventry, though....

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

Yes there is only one thing better than an H & H console ... and that's an H & H console with curved stop jambs!

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Be warned! Some time ago, H&H ceased producing the traditional H&H console as designed/engineered by Harry H around 1910 (that so many of us have grown thoroughly comfortable with).

 

They did make one (to special order) for the recent rebuild at St.David's Casthedral, Dyfed and although that instrument is generally very fine - and the H&H additions are both the right ones and pretty well matched to the old, the console IMHO doesn't feel right at all!

 

All this is a very subjective reaction, but to me it seems as if they have copied basic elements of the old design but have somehow thrown away the vital distance relationships. I also guess that one factor contributing to my unease is that the keys are not ivory (nor even bone). I was very disappointed at this unwelcome turn. If only they had heeded the customary advice: 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!'.

 

Since H&H are refurbishing one or another of the real article on a more-or-less continuous basis, you would expect them to get the design 'just so'. All they have to do is measure one carefully (and for the best results please note: second-hand ivory is available to firms that wish to use it). Contrast, for instance, David Wells' recital console at Liverpool which is as near a Willis III style copy as you will ever find.

 

The still fairly new H&H console at St.Mary's Twickenham is (visually) totally non-H&H style, but that one works well.

[pcnd5584]

Food for thought.

 

I was surprised to learn about the St. David's console - the photographs make it seem as if it were identical in apearance to their earlier 'standard' consoles. However, looks can be deceptive and proportions are notoriously difficult to judge from a photograph.

 

The question of ivory is an interesting one. Certainly H&H also managed to find enough to provide several new drawstops at Exeter Cathedral a few years ago. In the light of this, Mark Venning's assertion (writing with regard to the rebuild at St. David's) that there were just enough drawstops between the old ones and a few spares which were skimmed and re-engraved, is remarkably coy.

 

Surely he would not have been disingenuous?