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Malcolm Farr

That Toccata ...

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Steve,

 

A follow up to my last note - if you enter "orgues et organistes francais" into a search engine you will find the set. Top of my list, unbeleibvably, was Woolworths (on line), so it is still around.

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Steve,

 

There's a 5-CD box set called "Orgues et organistes francais du XXe siecle" on French EMI number -

7243 5 74866 2 0. All of Widor's recordings are on there, as indeed are Vierne's and Tournemire's. The set has a date of 2002 on it so not that old, it was available in the UK but I can't guarantee it is now. I'm afraid I haven't mastered mp3 technology yet but if you don't get any other response, write again with your postal address (is that allowed?) and I'll send a CD copy (probably not allowed either!!)

 

Thank you! With a bit of translation and Googling I found it on Amazon. For anyone else who's interested, the link is http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...uk-21/ref=nosim - just don't all put your orders in until I've ordered my copy! Certainly not bad for £15!

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Steve,

 

The Symphonie Gothique recording was also re-issued on CD by English EMI on CDC 5 55037 2 (1994) as part of its 'Composers in Person' Series. The disk also features Vierne, Dupre and Mesiaen. I know the Messiaen was remastered and sounds quite different from the French release 'Messiaen par Lui meme' - theye've fixed some of the bumpy edits clearly audible on the original LPs. A quick comparison suggest the same is true of the Widor.

 

There's some information on the recording sessions (but no explanation of what happened to movement 3) in John Near's study of Widor pp 289-291

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i brought this box set off amazon. it took 6 weeks but is worth it. The sound quality is good. I recommend it to anyone who plays this period of music, to hear vierne/widor/dupre perform has been a great help to me in performance of their works.

 

 

Of course if you can't wait six weeks... theres a PM button..

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i brought this box set off amazon. it took 6 weeks but is worth it. The sound quality is good. I recommend it to anyone who plays this period of music, to hear vierne/widor/dupre perform has been a great help to me in performance of their works.

Of course if you can't wait six weeks... theres a PM button..

 

I noticed the dispatch time just before I completed the order... so changed my mind and looked elsewhere... just put in an order from a site that said it was in stock (and a pound cheaper than Amazon!)

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Guest Psalm 78 v.67

Having often told people that various instruments will not support "The" Widor, and getting the distinct impression that most people assume that I just can't play it (I can!!), apart from a pedalboard with enough notes at the top end, what do people consider the minimum tonal requirements necessary for a passable performance? I have played it succesfully on a small 2 manual of Gt 8 8 8 4(flute) Sw 8 8 4 8(big Horn*) Ped 16

 

(* referring of course to the swell reed - the bride was very fit though! :) )

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Guest Psalm 78 v.67
Definitely doesn't work on http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N05825 ... I warned them it wouldn't ... didn't help. Always do what the paying customer wants though, is my motto.

 

Nor here http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D02978

 

They subsequently decided they had meant BWV 565! :o

 

(I love this organ - strange on paper, eg no couplers, but amazingly versatile, apart from Widor!)

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Not even if it was restored by Mr Mander?

 

With only 54 notes and no pedals, I think most people would find it a wee bit tricky, in all fairness.

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Guest Psalm 78 v.67

Has anyone seen that easy arrangement that Mayhew publish? I haven't, but someone said you could play it on anything......?

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Given that organ, I think Contrabourdon should have done an idiomatically English Baroque arrangement in two-part counterpoint, treble and bass only.

 

Or not.

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Given that organ, I think Contrabourdon should have done an idiomatically English Baroque arrangement in two-part counterpoint, treble and bass only.

 

Or not.

 

Yes, with dotted rhythms, or bringing in a crumhorn/sackbut player to do the pedal part.

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The Toccata does not really start to get exciting until at least the first pedal entry and if you do not have a nave the length of York Minster there seems little point in playing the thing unless you start at an interesting point.

 

For coming in, it takes 62 seconds, walking slowly, in my place for the bride to make it from the church door to the `marrying point'. One devoleps a list of `potted' things to play.

 

FF

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The Toccata does not really start to get exciting until at least the first pedal entry and if you do not have a nave the length of York Minster there seems little point in playing the thing unless you start at an interesting point.

 

For coming in, it takes 62 seconds, walking slowly, in my place for the bride to make it from the church door to the `marrying point'. One devoleps a list of `potted' things to play.

 

FF

 

 

=============================

 

 

That's the spirit Frank! Just what I have been advocating: no piece longer than 5 minutes; just cut out the boring bits and cherry-pick the best moments.

 

It could become a whole new cult "Arty"-form, and there would be time left to do other things, such as flower arranging, book-binding and jig-saw puzzles.

 

I'm with you all the way.

 

:)

 

MM

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Guest Cynic
=============================

That's the spirit Frank! Just what I have been advocating: no piece longer than 5 minutes; just cut out the boring bits and cherry-pick the best moments.

 

It could become a whole new cult "Arty"-form, and there would be time left to do other things, such as flower arranging, book-binding and jig-saw puzzles.

 

I'm with you all the way.

 

:)

 

MM

 

 

Changing the subject fractionally:

 

For a wedding yesterday up here in the frozen north, the happy couple had printed on their service sheet

Toccata in F minor - Widor......

and (as you all know) there is one - it's first movement of Symphony 4. To be safe, I thought it best to take both copies to the church.

 

Actually, I think it is pretty obvious that they had mentally done a musical 'shunt' which I believe is the correct appellation for two crashed cars, the best bits of which are welded together to make one good one.

Needless to say, when I arrived there was no-one around able to tell me which Toccata they actually wanted, but I had more than a hunch myself. I went with the 'dumbing down' option - after all, this was in a CofE establishment! Nobody noticed or complained.

 

It would have been interesting (if unkind) if I had insisted on playing the one they had specifically identified in print.

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Guest Barry Williams
Changing the subject fractionally:

 

For a wedding yesterday up here in the frozen north, the happy couple had printed on their service sheet

Toccata in F minor - Widor......

and (as you all know) there is one - it's first movement of Symphony 4. To be safe, I thought it best to take both copies to the church.

 

Actually, I think it is pretty obvious that they had mentally done a musical 'shunt' which I believe is the correct appellation for two crashed cars, the best bits of which are welded together to make one good one.

Needless to say, when I arrived there was no-one around able to tell me which Toccata they actually wanted, but I had more than a hunch myself. I went with the 'dumbing down' option - after all, this was in a CofE establishment! Nobody noticed or complained.

 

It would have been interesting (if unkind) if I had insisted on playing the one they had specifically identified in print.

 

 

It is nice to know that someone actually knows the difference! (And can play both.)

 

Barry Williams

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It is nice to know that someone actually knows the difference! (And can play both.)

 

Barry Williams

Yes indeed; I did get into serious trouble some years ago for playing Bach's Toccata in F when the other was expected - to say nothing of the occasion when the service sheet said Toccata and fugue in F minor (Widor IV i and ii)... and the bride and groom couldn't agree on what they really meant. JSB in d won eventually! - I do still wonder that they might have preferred a certain March in F by FvM...

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I thought everyone knew there are only two toccatas, one by Bach and one by Widor.

 

:D:)

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I thought everyone knew there are only two toccatas, one by Bach and one by Widor.

 

:D:)

 

 

don't even joke about it mate..... I once had a debate with a member of the congregation at my church who noticed as organ music i had put down 'toccata - Renaud' - and he thought i muts have been wrong...

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Would I be right in thinking it was Princess Margaret's wedding that popularised it as a wedding recessional?

 

 

I am pretty sure it was Princess Anne; I also think it was played, bizzarely, at the end of Diana's funeral.

 

Peter

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No there's only one Toccata. You must be getting mixed up with the similarly named Stoccato by Vidor.

 

Is that the Vidor V stoccato? My mistake.

 

:D:)

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Is that the Vidor V stoccato? My mistake.

 

:lol::)

 

 

Since when did batteries write music? Shouild this not be Widor we're talking about? :D

 

Peter

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Guest Cynic
Since when did batteries write music? Shouild this not be Widor we're talking about? :)

 

Peter

 

I was going to be immature and suggest Widdle's Tomato, but I won't.

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