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Guest Lee Blick

40 Stop, 3 Manual Organ

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Guest Lee Blick

Have fun! This is my stoplist:

 

GREAT ORGAN

16 Double Open Diapason

8 Open Diapason

8 Stopped Diapason

4 Octave

4 Stopped Flue

2 2/3 Twelfth

2 Fifteenth

III Mixture (15,19,22)

8 Trumpet

Sw to Gt

Ch to Gt

Gt Reed on Ch

 

SWELL ORGAN

8 Violin Diapason

8 Rohrflote

8 Salicional

8 Voix Celestes (to tenor C)

4 Geigen Principal

4 Nason Flute

2 Gemshorn

III Mixture (22,26,29)

16 Horn

8 Horn

8 Oboe

4 Clarion

Sub-octave

Octave

Unison-off

 

CHOIR ORGAN (enclosed)

8 Gemshorn

8 Quintadenda

4 Octave Gemshorn

4 Koppel Flote

2 2/3 Nazard

2 Piccolo

1 3/5 Tierce

II Scharf (29,33)

8 Clarinet

8 Horizontal Trumpet (uneclosed)

Sw to Ch

Octave

Suboctave

Tremulant

 

PEDAL ORGAN

32 Double Open Wood

16 Open Wood

16 Bourdon

8 Octave

8 Flute

4 Octave Flute

IV Mixture (12,15,19,22)

32 Bombarde

16 Ophicliede

Gt to Pd

Sw to Pd

Ch to Pd

Gt & Pd Cmbs Cpld

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Here is one of mines,for what it's worth...

 

I did count the Pedal extension in the forty, because they imply

additional pipes, but not the borrowings from the manuals.

 

MANUAL I

 

Double Open Diapason 16'

Bourdon 16'

Open Diapason I 8'

Open Diapason II 8'

Stopped Diapason 8'

Gamba 8'

Flûte harmonique 8'

Principal 4'

Plein-jeu 5 ranks 2 2/3'-2'-1 1/3'-1'-1/2'

Harmonics 6 ranks 2 2/3'-2'-1 3/5'-1 1/3'-1 1/7'-1'

Tromba 8'

Octave Tromba 4'

 

MANUAL II (enclosed)

 

Double Salicional 16'

Salicional 8'

Vox angelica 8'

Zauberflöte 8'

Flûte octaviante 4'

Octavin 2'

Progressivharmonika 3-6 ranks 1 3/5'-1 1/3'-1' (ending with 3 1/5' in the treble)

Basson 16'

Trompette harmonique 8'

Hautbois 8' (french type)

Clairon harmonique 4'

 

MANUAL III (enclosed)

 

Contra Dulciana 16'

Dulciana 8'

Aeoline 8'

Voix céleste 8'

Traversflöte 8'

Dulciana 4'

Zauberflöte 4'

Dulcet 2'

Dulciana Mixture 4 ranks 1 1/3'-1'-1/2'-2/3'

Klarinette 8' (free reed)

Physharmonika 8'(free reed with variable pressure)

Tuba 8' (outside the swellbox)

 

PEDAL

 

Bourdon doux 32'

Kontrabass 16'

Subbass 16' (from I)

Salicional 16' (from II)

Dulciana 16' (from III)

Octave 8' (extended from Kontrabass)

Gamba 8' (from I)

Stopped Diapason 8' (from I)

Flûte octaviante 4' (from II)

Tubasson 16'

Tubasson 8' (extended from 16')

 

Usual couplers etc.

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Have fun!  This is my stoplist:

 

GREAT ORGAN

16      Double Open Diapason

8        Open Diapason

8        Stopped Diapason

4        Octave

4        Stopped Flue

2 2/3  Twelfth

2        Fifteenth

III      Mixture (15,19,22)

8        Trumpet

          Sw to Gt

          Ch to Gt

          Gt Reed on Ch

 

SWELL ORGAN

8        Violin Diapason

8        Rohrflote

8        Salicional

8        Voix Celestes (to tenor C)

4        Geigen Principal

4        Nason Flute

2        Gemshorn

III      Mixture (22,26,29)

16      Horn

8        Horn

8        Oboe

4        Clarion

          Sub-octave

          Octave

          Unison-off

 

CHOIR ORGAN (enclosed)

8        Gemshorn

8        Quintadenda

4        Octave Gemshorn

4        Koppel Flote

2 2/3  Nazard

2        Piccolo

1 3/5  Tierce

II      Scharf (29,33)

8        Clarinet

8        Horizontal Trumpet (uneclosed)

          Sw to Ch

          Octave

          Suboctave

          Tremulant

 

PEDAL ORGAN

32      Double Open Wood

16      Open Wood

16        Bourdon

8        Octave

8        Flute

4        Octave Flute

IV      Mixture (12,15,19,22)

32      Bombarde

16      Ophicliede

          Gt to Pd

          Sw to Pd

          Ch to Pd

          Gt & Pd Cmbs Cpld

 

How necessary is a 32ft pedal reed in this context is it felt generally? In an organ of this size would it be regarded as essential for completeness? I wonder if the utility of this pedal organ would be increased by rather having additional stops of 16ft of varying colour. I'm no expert, just wondering.

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Have fun!  This is my stoplist:

 

GREAT ORGAN

16      Double Open Diapason

8        Open Diapason

8        Stopped Diapason

4        Octave

4        Stopped Flue

2 2/3  Twelfth

2        Fifteenth

III      Mixture (15,19,22)

8        Trumpet

          Sw to Gt

          Ch to Gt

          Gt Reed on Ch

 

SWELL ORGAN

8        Violin Diapason

8        Rohrflote

8        Salicional

8        Voix Celestes (to tenor C)

4        Geigen Principal

4        Nason Flute

2        Gemshorn

III      Mixture (22,26,29)

16      Horn

8        Horn

8        Oboe

4        Clarion

          Sub-octave

          Octave

          Unison-off

 

CHOIR ORGAN (enclosed)

8        Gemshorn

8        Quintadenda

4        Octave Gemshorn

4        Koppel Flote

2 2/3  Nazard

2        Piccolo

1 3/5  Tierce

II      Scharf (29,33)

8        Clarinet

8        Horizontal Trumpet (uneclosed)

          Sw to Ch

          Octave

          Suboctave

          Tremulant

 

PEDAL ORGAN

32      Double Open Wood

16      Open Wood

16        Bourdon

8        Octave

8        Flute

4        Octave Flute

IV      Mixture (12,15,19,22)

32      Bombarde

16      Ophicliede

          Gt to Pd

          Sw to Pd

          Ch to Pd

          Gt & Pd Cmbs Cpld

 

 

Hmm...

 

I prescribe Tromba and Harmonics on the Great, and a ped Violone 16' to replace the Bombarde. But the first step must be to get rid of the horizontal reed... Can any one direct me to an example which edifies a UK instrument? :)

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Guest Lee Blick
I prescribe Tromba and Harmonics on the Great, and a ped Violone 16' to replace the Bombarde. But the first step must be to get rid of the horizontal reed... Can any one direct me to an example which edifies a UK instrument?

 

 

A Tromba and Harmonics make it sound like a Willis organ.

 

OK, a Bombarde is probably a bit of a luxury, a Violone might be more useful.

 

Why get rid of the Horizontal reed? I am sure a firm such as H & H or Manders could make a decent one?

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Hmm...

 

I prescribe Tromba and Harmonics on the Great, and a ped Violone 16' to replace the Bombarde. But the first step must be to get rid of the horizontal reed... Can any one direct me to an example which edifies a UK instrument?  :)

 

 

Oh yes!

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Here is mine:

 

PEDAL ORGAN

 

Sub Bass (Emp.) 32

Contra Bass (W) 16

Violone 16

Bourdon 16

Octave (M) 8

Stopped Flute (Emp.) 8

Fifteenth 4

Mixture (19-22-26-29) IV

Bombarde 16

Clarion 8

Shawm 4

Chaire to Pedal

Chaire Octave to Pedal

Great to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

Pedal and Great Pistons Coupled

 

CHAIRE ORGAN

 

Stopped Diapason 8

Prestant 4

Chimney Flute 4

Quint 2 2/3

Recorder 2

Tierce 1 3/5

Twenty Second 1

Cimbel (29-33-36) III

Cremona 8

Tremulant

Swell to Chaire

 

GREAT ORGAN

 

Quintatön 16

Open Diapason 8

Rohr Flute 8

Gamba 8

Octave 4

Harmonic Flute 4

Fifteenth 2

Mixture (19-22-26-29) IV

Posaune 8

Chaire to Great

Swell to Great

 

SWELL ORGAN

 

Open Diapason 8

Wald Flute 8

Salicional 8

Voix Célestes (AA) 8

Gemshorn (Conical) 4

Fifteenth 2

Mixture (22-26-29) III

Bass Trumpet 16

Hautboy 8

Cornopean 8

Clarion 4

Tremulant

Sub Octave

Unison Off

Octave

Reeds on Pedal

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Hmm...

 

I prescribe Tromba and Harmonics on the Great, and a ped Violone 16' to replace the Bombarde. But the first step must be to get rid of the horizontal reed... Can any one direct me to an example which edifies a UK instrument?  :lol:

 

======================

 

Yes!

 

Try Leeds Town Hall....Gray & Davison 19th century.

 

Isn't there one at Usk PC in South Wales by the same builder?

 

I don't think the big Orchestral Trumpet at Hull City Hall is horizontal, but if it were........ :)

 

MM

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Not quite 'PC' - about 40 'voices' - here goes!

 

GREAT

16 Violone

8 Open Diapason

8 Harmonic Flute

8 Stopped Flute

8 Salicional

4 Principal

4 Open Flute

2-2/3 Twelfth

2 Fifteenth

1-3/5 Seventeenth

1-1/3 Mixture IV

8 Harmonic Trumpet (Ch)

8 Clarinet (Ch)

8 Tuba (Ch)

 

SWELL

16 Lieblich Bourdon (Ext.8)

8 Open Diapason

8 Stopped Diapason

8 Gamba

8 Celeste

4 Gemshorn

2 Flageolet

2 Mixture III- V

16 Posaune

8 Cornopean

8 Oboe

8 Vox Humana

4 Clarion

 

CHOIR (Enclosed)

8 Violin Diapason

8 Chimney Flute

8 Dulciana

8 Unda Maris

4 Principal

4 Concert Flute

2-2/3 Nazard

2 Gemshorn

1-3/5 Tierce

1-1/3 Mixture III

8 Harmonic Trumpet (Higher pressure)

8 Clarinet

8 Tuba (Unenclosed and much higher pressure)

 

 

PEDAL

32 Bourdon (Ext. 16)

16 Open Wood

16 Violone (Gt)

16 Sub Bass

8 Principal

8 Flute Bass (Gt Harmonic)

4 Fifteenth

4 Flute (Ext. 8)

16 Ophicleide (Ext. Tuba)

16 Posaune (Sw)

8 Trumpet (Ext. Sw)

4 Clarion (Ext. Sw)

 

Liberal sprinkling of couplers - octave and unison.

 

AJJ

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Indeed - fire away then!

 

Well, I prefer books to weapons...

From "Romantischer Orgelbau in Deutschland", Wolfgang Metzler,

about the needs of Reger's music:

"The Plenum must be based on solid foundation stops. In 16' the Quintatön is not enough. It is not even enough for Bach, it is too thin."

 

The basis for romantic music is 16-8-4 -with a strong emphasis on the 8- on the manuals, not 8-4-2 like in neo-baroque and north german baroque organs.

In Abschwächungsprinzip-designed organs the 16' flues are attributed according to strenght to the manuals, like the other stops. An example from my project here:

 

Manual I: Diapason 16+St. Diapason 16'

Manual II: Salicional 16'

Manual III Dulciana 16' (about same scale as Salicional, but narrower mouths).

 

The two last being softer, it is possible to borrow them on the Pedal without impairing

the global effect, an this is quite usefull because you cannot have too many different colors and strenghts at 16' on the Pedal, like in 8' on the manuals.

 

Stopped 16' are not enough save in 10-stops schemes. Stopped pipes do not emit the octaves, only quint and tierce harmonics (mainly), which restricts blend with the 8' and 4'.

With 61 notes and musics that go willingly towards the treble, all this leads to thinness and screaming.

Now if the aim is Scheidt and Buxtehude only, this we may of course forget; for Bach, mmh, I would not put my head under the guillotine!

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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Well, I prefer books to weapons...

From "Romantischer Orgelbau in Deutschland", Wolfgang Metzler,

about the needs of Reger's music:

"The Plenum must be based on solid foundation stops. In 16' the Quintatön is not enough. It is not even enough for Bach, it is too thin."

 

The basis for romantic music is 16-8-4 -with a strong emphasis on the 8- on the manuals, not 8-4-2 like in neo-baroque and north german baroque organs.

In Abschwächungsprinzip-designed organs the 16' flues are attributed according to strenght to the manuals, like the other stops. An example from my project here:

 

Manual I: Diapason 16+St. Diapason 16'

Manual II: Salicional 16'

Manual III Dulciana 16' (about same scale as Salicional, but narrower mouths).

 

The two last being softer, it is possible to borrow them on the Pedal without impairing

the global effect, an this is quite usefull because you cannot have too many different colors and strenghts at 16' on the Pedal, like in 8' on the manuals.

 

Stopped 16' are not enough save in 10-stops schemes. Stopped pipes do not emit the octaves, only quint and tierce harmonics (mainly), which restricts blend with the 8' and 4'.

With 61 notes and musics that go willingly towards the treble, all this leads to thinness and screaming.

Now if the aim is Scheidt and Buxtehude only, this we may of course forget; for Bach, mmh, I would not put my head under the guillotine!

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

 

Point taken - I've changed mine for something open and added a 'cheat' one to the Sw - see back!

 

AJJ

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Well, I prefer books to weapons...

From "Romantischer Orgelbau in Deutschland", Wolfgang Metzler,

about the needs of Reger's music:

"The Plenum must be based on solid foundation stops. In 16' the Quintatön is not enough. It is not even enough for Bach, it is too thin."

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

 

But this is where only applying theoretical rules will let you down!

 

My own instrument has a superb Quintatön 16p on the GO - it is perfect for Bach. I agree that it is a little thin for Romantic music - but not that much!

 

In fact, there are many instances of registrations which should not work on my own instrument, particularly in the dry acoustic, yet the quality of the pipework and the voicing is so good, that they work very well.

 

One of the possibilities is to re-instate the Pedal Salicional on the GO (but leaving it separately available on the Pedal Organ), since this spotted metal (open 16p) rank, was formerly on the GO as the flue double.

 

Ideally, I would like to see a separate Double Open Diapason (metal), but this would be rather expensive.

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But this is where only applying theoretical rules will let you down!

 

My own instrument has a superb Quintatön 16p on the GO - it is perfect for Bach. I agree that it is a little thin for Romantic music - but not that much!

 

In fact, there are many instances of registrations which should not work on my own instrument, particularly in the dry acoustic, yet the quality of the pipework and the voicing is so good, that they work very well.

 

One of the possibilities is to re-instate the Pedal Salicional on the GO (but leaving it separately available on the Pedal Organ), since this spotted metal (open 16p) rank, was formerly on the GO as the flue double.

 

Ideally, I would like to see a separate Double Open Diapason (metal), but this would be rather expensive.

 

Indirectly to do with this - the before and after specs. of Cartmel Priory (about 40 stops!) - 60s Rushworth rebuild and recent Principal Pipe Organs (Organists' Review advert) It looks as if mixtures have been lowered in pitch and (amongst other things) a 16 Double Diapason on the Great replacing (I seem to remember) a Bourdon. They say things go in circles......... It would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind the recent work and to see whether any more 60s rebuilds are due for 're padding'

 

AJJ

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Yes - I saw this and wondered, too.

 

I think that there is a tendency to include more 16p and 8p stops on the claviers, these days.

 

Whilst I am rarely in favour of mixtures being lowered in pitch (15-19-22 just does nothing for me!), I am in favour of a good supply of contrasted but blending 8p stops - and an adequate provision of 16p flue stops on the claviers.

 

I think that, on paper, Cartmel looks reasonable. This must be one of the most under-recorded instruments in the UK (if that is not an impossible paradox).

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Yes - I saw this and wondered, too.

 

I think that there is a tendency to include more 16p and 8p stops on the claviers, these days.

 

Whilst I am rarely in favour of mixtures being lowered in pitch (15-19-22 just does nothing for me!), I am in favour of a good supply of contrasted but blending 8p stops - and an adequate provision of 16p flue stops on the claviers.

 

I think that, on paper, Cartmel looks reasonable. This must be one of the most under-recorded instruments in the UK (if that is not an impossible paradox).

 

I think Adrian self is organist there (of Animus publishers - some nice music there) - another ex Southampton musician - maybe now the work has been done there might be some recording.

 

AJJ

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I think Adrian self is organist there (of Animus publishers - some nice music there) - another ex Southampton musician - maybe now the work has been done there might be some recording.

 

AJJ

 

OK - this would certainly be good.

 

Does anyone happen to know if there is (or was) a recording of the instrument before the recent PPO restoration, please?

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Well, grave Mixtures have their reasons too...

Especially when there are many foundation stops.

High-piched Mixtures always stand apart above,

they add brillance but do not build a true chorus.

Pierre

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Well, grave Mixtures have their reasons too...

Especially when there are many foundation stops.

High-piched Mixtures always stand apart above,

they add brillance but do not build a true chorus.

Pierre

 

Not if they are voiced well - as you said in the thread regarding the concert-hall scheme!

 

My own instrument has the following mixtures (at the bass):

 

Pedal: (19-22-26-29)

 

Positive (29-33-36)

 

GO (19-22-26-29)

 

Swell (22-26-29)

 

They each top an excellent chorus. When coupled, in my opinion, it is one of the most exciting and satisfying sounds which I have ever heard on a British organ.

 

I would not change one single pipe of any of them!

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Indeed, Pierre!

 

It is a very versatile instrument and can give a good account of most repertoire.

 

So le'ts keep new ideas for new organs, and leave the others alone.

In Belgium I fight for the preservation of....Neo-baroque organs.

Pierre

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