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Westgate Morris

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Hi

 

Not by a fair margin!

 

Heaton (Bradford) Baptist Church

Annon. chamber organ c.1820-1850.

1 manual GG compass, 30 note C compass pedal pull downs arranged as a return coupler.

 

Stopped Diap. Bass

Dulciana (treble)

Open Diapason (Treble)

Principal (through)

Fifteenth (through)

Flute 4 (treble) (replacing Keraulophon 8; probably the Stop. Diap Treble when organ first built.)

 

More details on NPOR, including the history that we know and a couple of pictures.

 

Anyone play anything smaller (they are out there!)

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

 

==================

 

Good grief! The organ I play is TWICE the size of that....what fraptious joy!

 

It's a pity Tony didn't know the original organ at Heaton Baptist Church (before they pulled it down) , with the large 3-manual Laycock & Banister organ....one of their best.

 

Now this organ was BUILT, and not only that, it had some rip-snorting reeds which some considered to be by Cavaille-Coll. I'm not sure that they were, but they were certainly quite fine examples.

 

However, Tony would be interested by the L & B organ close to mine own church, at St.John's, Ingrow on the outskirts of Keighley, where there is THE most remarkable Vox Humana. They must have been all the rage at the time, because it was installed after the organ was built and cost, if I recall correctly, a very great deal of money.....I think about £100, when whole organs could be built for about £300-£400.

 

Although I used to work for L & B many, many years ago, it is one organ in which I never crawled. However, I would almost bet my last pound-coin that this Vox Humana is the real thing from Paris. I simply cannot think of another English organ with a Vox Humana of similar quality, unless it happens to be a pear-shaped Fr.Willis example.

 

It does tend to suggest that L & B and the local organ fraternity may well have been going through a "I love Paris" period, and whilst not in any way evidential, I often wonder if there wasn't some sort of link between both L & B instruments, in the sense that the reedwerk on both had an unusual quality found nowhere else except All Soul's, Hayley Hill, Halifax, which had (it may still be in situ) pipes by Cavaille-Coll (A Vox Humana - the pipes of which were stolen I believe) and "some ranks reputed to be by Schulze which we know were not because he didn't make his own metal pipes and besides they would be Violette ones" ...sort of argument.

 

We could almost write a detetctive story about these three instruments; all within a 12 mile radius, but as most of the evidence has disappeared or is in a crumbling state, it would be highly dubious sleuthing bordering on "Alimentary my dear Watson."

 

These rich mill owners had a lot to answer for, importing all that foreign stuff and paying for it, but at least John Foster left us two great things to enjoy in Queensbury; the "Black Dyke Mills Band" and the most wonderful extant Isaac Abbot organ at the PC.

 

MM

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This is fascinating, MM.

 

I would be really interested in stop-lists (I know, you are going to suggest the NPOR....) and photographs. Is there any chance of this, please?

 

Incidentally, is there any way of posting photographs here, without having to send them (electronically) to someone, in order to have a URL for them? Any help will be gratefully received.

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This is fascinating, MM.

 

I would be really interested in stop-lists (I know, you are going to suggest the NPOR....) and photographs. Is there any chance of this, please?

 

Incidentally, is there any way of posting photographs here, without having to send them (electronically) to someone, in order to have a URL for them? Any help will be gratefully received.

 

===============

 

 

The old Laycock & Banister organ at Heaton Baptist church was quite interesting, and I note that the NPOR site mentions "Cavaille-Coll reeds." The specification read as follows:-

 

 

Pedal

1 Open Diapason 32

2 Open Diapason 16 CD Large Open Diapason

3 Bourdon 16

4 Violone 16

5 Violoncello 8

6 Flute Bass 8 Ext.

 

Choir (Enclosed)

 

7 Violin Diapason 8

8 Lieblich Gedact 8

9 Lieblich Flute 4

10 Nazard 2 2/3 c1965, replaced Dulciana

11 Piccolo 2

12 Orchestral Oboe 8

13 Clarinet 8

14 Tremulant

 

Great

15 Contra Gamba 16

16 Large Open Diapason 8

17 Small Open Diapason 8

18 Dulciana 8 c1965, replaced Viol di Gamba

19 Hohl Flute 8

20 Harmonic Flute 4

21 Principal 4

22 Fifteenth 2

23 Mixture III

24 Trumpet 8

 

Swell

Enclosed

 

25 Lieblich Bourdon 16

26 Open Diapason 8

27 Rohr Flute 8

28 Vox Angelica 8

29 Voix Celeste 8

30 Wald Flute 4

31 Gemshorn 4

32 Flageolet 2

33 Horn 8

34 Oboe 8

35 Clarion 4 c1965, replaced Vox Humana

36 Tremulant

 

There are photographs of the casework and console in NPOR, which can be found by searching under "Heaton Bradford" and referring to the Baptist Church.

 

------------------

 

The organ in St.John's church, Ingrow, Keighley, has not been surveyed by the NPOR to date, by the looks of it. However, it is a medium-size 3-manual instrument with a specification probably not a lot different to the above, as one might expect for the period.

 

I cannot recall it from memory, but I could possibly "do a survey" specially.

 

Apart from some gorgeous sounds from a mild string and celeste, some very nice flutes and the magical Vox Humana, it isn't such a remarkable instrument, but it is quite admirable if a little "dark" in tone.

 

---------------------

 

 

Queensbury PC, nr.Bradford - Isaac Abbot 1884

 

 

Pedal

1 Sub Bass 32

2 Open Bass 16

3 Bourdon 16

4 Violoncello 8

5 Flute Bass 8

6 Trombone 16 (Added)

 

Great

 

7 Bourdon 16

8 Large Open Diapason 8

9 Small Open Diapason 8

10 Hohl Flote 8 Sic.

11 Octave 4

12 Harmonic Flute 4

13 Nazard 2 2/3

14 Super Octave 2

15 Mixture III

16 Posaune 8

 

Swell Enclosed

 

17 Lieblich Bourdon 16

18 Geigen Principal 8

19 Stop'd Diapason 8

20 Dulciana 8

21 Voix Celeste 8 Co

22 Octave 4

23 Full Mixture IV

24 Oboe 8

25 Horn 8

26 Clarion 4

 

Choir

 

27 Pierced Gamba 8

28 Lieblich Gedact 8

29 Vox Angelica 8

30 Lieblich Flute 4

31 Clarionet 8 Co. Enclosed

32 Corno di Bassetto 8 C-B. Enclosed

33 Orchestral Oboe 8 Co. Enclosed

34 Tremulant (Added)

 

What can I say about the NPOR surevy, except that it is inaccurate?

 

I don't "think" John T.Jackson had much to do with it, but he may have done work to the instrument. In fact, the organ was re-furbished/re-built by Philip Wood (the forerunner of Wood of Huddersfield) possibly in the early 70's....I forget exactly when.

 

The Pedal Trombone was added at the same time, but THAT rank is especially interesting, for it came out of an Abbott organ in Rotherham (possibly the PC?) and matches the Queensbury instrument to perfection. I believe Philip Wood had this rank in the workshop, and it just found a perfect home at Queensbury.

 

In a limited but warm acoustic, this organ sounds absolutely wonderful, and is one of the very few Isaac Abbott organs still in existence....an object lesson in how to build a good parish organ, if ever there was one. (Abbott had originally worked for Wm.Hill, I believe).

 

All Soul's, Hayley Hill Forster & Andrews 1868:-

 

This was an English attempt at building a Schulze-style instrument on the part of Forster & Andrews, and is unique in their output. It may well be that the "Schulze" pipes were actually voiced by Schulze, but I cannot recall quite when he shuffled off this mortal-coil or even when he was in the UK. However, as Forster & Andrews had connections with Schulze, this is possible. The church is now closed, being structurally sound these days, but far too large for any congregation to support in view of the soft stone employed in the building of it. It is a splendid....and I mean SPLENDID.... Gilbert-Scott church with a huge spire. The organ is no longer playable and many of the pipes which escaped vandalism are now in storage. The Vox Humana was by Cavaille-Coll and made of tin, but whether it still exists I cannot say.

 

Quite a large 4-decker, it is best to refer to the following survey on the NPOR

register [N07206], which gives full details.

 

MM

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===============

The old Laycock & Banister organ at Heaton Baptist church was quite interesting, and I note that the NPOR site mentions "Cavaille-Coll reeds."  The specification read as follows:-

Pedal

            1 Open Diapason 32 

            2 Open Diapason 16 CD Large Open Diapason

            3 Bourdon 16 

            4 Violone 16 

            5 Violoncello 8 

            6 Flute Bass 8 Ext.

 

Choir (Enclosed)

 

            7 Violin Diapason 8 

            8 Lieblich Gedact 8 

            9 Lieblich Flute 4 

            10 Nazard 2 2/3  c1965, replaced Dulciana

            11 Piccolo 2 

            12 Orchestral Oboe 8 

            13 Clarinet 8 

            14 Tremulant 

 

Great             

            15 Contra Gamba 16 

            16 Large Open Diapason 8 

            17 Small Open Diapason 8 

            18 Dulciana 8 c1965, replaced Viol di Gamba

            19 Hohl Flute 8 

            20 Harmonic Flute 4 

            21 Principal 4 

            22 Fifteenth 2 

            23 Mixture III 

            24 Trumpet 8 

 

Swell

Enclosed

 

            25 Lieblich Bourdon 16 

            26 Open Diapason 8 

            27 Rohr Flute 8 

            28 Vox Angelica 8 

            29 Voix Celeste 8 

            30 Wald Flute 4 

            31 Gemshorn 4 

            32 Flageolet 2 

            33 Horn 8 

            34 Oboe 8 

            35 Clarion 4 c1965, replaced Vox Humana

            36 Tremulant

 

There are photographs of the casework and console in NPOR, which can be found by searching under "Heaton Bradford" and referring to the Baptist Church.

 

------------------

 

The organ in St.John's church, Ingrow, Keighley, has not been surveyed by the NPOR to date, by the looks of it. However, it is a medium-size 3-manual instrument with a specification probably not a lot different to the above, as one might expect for the period.

 

I cannot recall it from memory, but I could possibly "do a survey" specially.

 

Apart from some gorgeous sounds from a mild string and celeste, some very nice flutes and the magical Vox Humana, it isn't such a remarkable instrument, but it is quite admirable if a little "dark" in tone.

 

---------------------

Queensbury PC, nr.Bradford - Isaac Abbot 1884

Pedal

            1 Sub Bass 32 

            2 Open Bass 16 

            3 Bourdon 16 

            4 Violoncello 8 

            5 Flute Bass 8 

            6 Trombone 16 (Added)

 

Great 

           

            7 Bourdon 16 

            8 Large Open Diapason 8 

            9 Small Open Diapason 8 

            10 Hohl Flote 8 Sic.

            11 Octave 4 

            12 Harmonic Flute 4 

            13 Nazard 2 2/3 

            14 Super Octave 2 

            15 Mixture III 

            16 Posaune 8 

 

Swell Enclosed

           

            17 Lieblich Bourdon 16 

            18 Geigen Principal 8 

            19 Stop'd Diapason 8 

            20 Dulciana 8 

            21 Voix Celeste 8 Co

            22 Octave 4 

            23 Full Mixture IV 

            24 Oboe 8 

            25 Horn 8 

            26 Clarion 4 

 

Choir             

 

            27 Pierced Gamba 8 

            28 Lieblich Gedact 8 

            29 Vox Angelica 8 

            30 Lieblich Flute 4 

            31 Clarionet 8 Co. Enclosed

            32 Corno di Bassetto 8 C-B. Enclosed

            33 Orchestral Oboe 8 Co. Enclosed

            34 Tremulant  (Added)

 

What can I say about the NPOR surevy, except that it is inaccurate?

 

I don't "think" John T.Jackson had much to do with it, but he may have done work to the instrument. In fact, the organ was re-furbished/re-built by Philip Wood (the forerunner of Wood of Huddersfield) possibly in the early 70's....I forget exactly when.

 

The Pedal Trombone was added at the same time, but THAT rank is especially interesting, for it came out of an Abbott organ in Rotherham (possibly the PC?) and matches the Queensbury instrument to perfection. I believe Philip Wood had this rank in the workshop, and it just found a perfect home at Queensbury.

 

In a limited but warm acoustic, this organ sounds absolutely wonderful, and is one of the very few Isaac Abbott organs still in existence....an object lesson in how to build a good parish organ, if ever there was one. (Abbott had originally worked for Wm.Hill, I believe).

 

All Soul's, Hayley Hill  Forster & Andrews 1868:-

 

This was an English attempt at building a Schulze-style instrument on the part of Forster & Andrews, and is unique in their output. It may well be that the "Schulze" pipes were actually voiced by Schulze, but I cannot recall quite when he shuffled off this mortal-coil or even when he was in the UK.  However, as Forster & Andrews had connections with Schulze, this is possible. The church is now closed, being structurally sound these days, but far too large for any congregation to support in view of the soft stone employed in the building of it. It is a splendid....and I mean SPLENDID....  Gilbert-Scott church with a huge spire. The organ is no longer playable and many of the pipes which escaped vandalism are now in storage. The Vox Humana was by Cavaille-Coll and made of tin, but whether it still exists I cannot say.

 

Quite a large 4-decker, it is best to refer to the following survey on the NPOR

register  [N07206], which gives full details.

 

MM

 

Thank you for your trouble, MM - it is much appreciated.

 

I am currently at school, so I will look at it in greater detail this evening. The old L&B at Heaton Baptist Church looks excellent on paper - was the 32p diapason prepared-for, or was it actually inserted?

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==================

 

Good grief!  The organ I play is TWICE the size of that....what fraptious joy!

 

It's a pity Tony didn't know the original organ at Heaton Baptist Church (before they pulled it down) , with the large 3-manual Laycock & Banister organ....one of their best.

 

Now this organ was BUILT, and not only that, it had some rip-snorting reeds which some considered to be by Cavaille-Coll. I'm not sure that they were, but they were certainly quite fine examples.

 

However, Tony would be interested by the L & B organ close to mine own church, at St.John's, Ingrow on the outskirts of Keighley, where there is THE most remarkable Vox Humana. They must have been all the rage at the time, because it was installed after the organ was built and cost, if I recall correctly, a very great deal of money.....I think about £100, when whole organs could be built for about £300-£400.

 

Although I used to work for L & B many, many years ago, it is one organ in which I never crawled. However, I would almost bet my last pound-coin that this Vox Humana is the real thing from Paris. I simply cannot think of another English organ with a Vox Humana of similar quality, unless it happens to be a pear-shaped Fr.Willis example.

 

It does tend to suggest that L & B and the local organ fraternity may well have been going through a "I love Paris" period, and whilst not in any way evidential, I often wonder if there wasn't some sort of link between both L & B instruments, in the sense that the reedwerk on both had an unusual quality found nowhere else except All Soul's, Hayley Hill, Halifax, which had (it may still be in situ) pipes by Cavaille-Coll (A Vox Humana - the pipes of which were stolen I believe) and "some ranks reputed to be by Schulze which we know were not because he didn't make his own metal pipes and besides they would be Violette ones" ...sort of argument.

 

We could almost write a detetctive story about these three instruments; all within a 12 mile radius, but as most of the evidence has disappeared or is in a crumbling state, it would be highly dubious sleuthing bordering on "Alimentary my dear Watson."

 

These rich mill owners had a lot to answer for, importing all that foreign stuff and paying for it, but at least John Foster left us two great things to enjoy in Queensbury; the "Black Dyke Mills Band" and the most wonderful extant Isaac Abbot organ at the PC.

 

MM

 

Hi

 

I've seen pictures of the L&B - and our organist remembers it well - it's he who told me about the C-C reed. I don't get much time to visit other organs at present - maybe I'll get to Ingrow one day - after all, it's not far!

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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This one might take some beating (though I bet it can be done):

http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=C00530

 

Hi

 

There are probably dozens of these Casson positives (also made under the "Positive OrganCo." name) around the country. For small - what about the "Scuadamore" organs - Open Diapason 8 and that's it! There are also plenty of 3 or 4 stop organs around - I've got one in pieces in my study - reputed to be by Bishop (but I think severely mutilated) one manual, all stops divide a mid.B-C:-

 

Open Diapason 8 (TC)

Stopped Diapason 8 (actually a Clarabella in the treble)

Principal 4

 

30 note straight, flat pedal pull downs. I rescued it from a church in Essex.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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===============

 

Quite a large 4-decker, it is best to refer to the following survey on the NPOR

register  [N07206], which gives full details.

 

MM

 

Hi

 

May I suggest that you send NPOR a survey for Ingrow st. john and corrections for tohe other organ you mention! We can't correct mistakes or ommissions unless someone tells us about them!

 

Every Blessing

 

TOny

(NPOR Editor)

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Thank you for your trouble, MM - it is much appreciated.

 

I am currently at school, so I will look at it in greater detail this evening. The old L&B at Heaton Baptist Church looks excellent on paper - was the 32p diapason prepared-for, or was it actually inserted?

 

Hi

 

I'm pretty sure that everything was installed. Heaton Baptist was VERY wealthy in those days! Not long after the organ was built, they put up the house which I now live in - the ground floor is bnow the church (seats 40 comfortably, 50 at a push). We have the 2 floors above that (and there's a couple of cellars!) It was built for one of my predecessors in the ministry, with his family and 4 servants! (Now that has its attractions!)

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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Hi

 

I'm pretty sure that everything was installed.  Heaton Baptist was VERY wealthy in those days!  Not long after the organ was built, they put up the house which I now live in - the ground floor is bnow the church (seats 40 comfortably, 50 at a push).  We have the 2 floors above that (and there's a couple of cellars!)  It was built for one of my predecessors in the ministry, with his family and 4 servants!  (Now that has its attractions!)

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

 

 

Goodness - most impressive, Tony.

 

So - is the 32p rank now part of the heating system for your house?

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Goodness - most impressive, Tony.

 

So - is the 32p rank now part of the heating system for your house?

 

Hi

 

Sadly, no. The organ was sold to an organ builder (I've not been able to discover who) for proposed re-installation in a large Anglican church - the builder went bankrupt and as far as I know the remains of the organ were either dispersed or scrapped - very sad.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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Guest Andrew Butler

What i miss most on the new NPOR site is the ability to open an e-mail message with the instrument's ref as the message subject, direct from the spec page. I have submitted numerouis corrections over the last few years by this means, but I am letting errors/omissions go unchecked now as it would appear you have to go to the contact page to open an e-mail and then look up and enter the reference number which all takes time.

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What i miss most on the new NPOR site is the ability to open an e-mail message with the instrument's ref as the message subject, direct from the spec page. I have submitted numerouis corrections over the last few years by this means, but I am letting errors/omissions go unchecked now as it would appear you have to go to the contact page to open an e-mail and then look up and enter the reference number which all takes time.

 

Hi

 

Sorry to hear that, Andrew. I'm not privy to the reasoning behind all of the changes - but it does make most things easier. The old system of an e-mail containing the survey plus ammendments could sometimes take a lot of wading through to find what needed changing! We do our best - but please do let us know of any errors or corrections!

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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