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Guest Andrew Butler

Courcelina

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Yes, the big one. I'm afraid I know nothing about when it was added.

 

http://www.orgelsite.nl/koeln.htm

 

 

Goodness! This organ has been substantially altered and enlarged.

 

Certainly, I was in Cologne in 2002 and I remember seeng the cathedral littered with large wooden packing-cases and stacks of shiny organ pipes. It looks as though the case has also been altered. I cannot quite recall what it looked like before, but I do not think that it was exactly like that.

 

Certainly it was not loud enough (or in the best location); which is why the nave organ was installed a few years ago. I wonder how they have managed to pay for all this work on two organs in the same cathedral, only a few years apart.

 

I am glad that the 'old' organ has now acquired a céleste and some (presumably) big reeds.

 

I would be interested to know if there is a recording of this instrument after the recent enlargement. I have one of the nave organ (played by Clement Ganz), but I cannot say that I found the sound of the instrument particularly stunning - only the acoustic. If anyone knows of a recording, I would be grateful for any information which you can give, please.

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Goodness!  This organ has been substantially altered and enlarged.

 

Certainly, I was in Cologne in 2002 and I remember seeng the cathedral littered with large wooden packing-cases and stacks of shiny organ pipes. It looks as though the case has also been altered. I cannot quite recall what it looked like before, but I do not think that it was exactly like that.

 

Certainly it was not loud enough (or in the best location); which is why the nave organ was installed a few years ago. I wonder how they have managed to pay for all this work on two organs in the same cathedral, only a few years apart.

 

I am glad that the 'old' organ has now acquired a céleste and some (presumably) big reeds.

 

I would be interested to know if there is a recording of this instrument after the recent enlargement. I have one of the nave organ (played by Clement Ganz), but I cannot say that I found the sound of the instrument particularly stunning - only the acoustic. If anyone knows of a recording, I would be grateful for any information which you can give, please.

 

 

Motette CD 12191

 

Apart from several additions, including the ones cited in this thread and some high-pressure tubas, the whole organ was raised by six feet, apparently to increase the output by better reflection from the vaulting above it.

 

I, too, am pleased that there is now a celeste on the transept organ; a voice that has been lacking since it was first built. It is also interesting that they retained several uncommon mutations, one - 'Aliquot II-III' - of which I would particularly like to know more about its composition. Perhaps someone can help.

 

This is, in my opinion, an excellent recording in which BOTH organs may be compared. Although one can never be absolutely sure from recordings (for example, microphone positioning), both organs sound very impressive on this CD.

 

I now await a recording following the installation of the 40" west end tubas due this year, I believe!

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Motette CD 12191

 

Apart from several additions, including the ones cited in this thread and some high-pressure tubas, the whole organ was raised by six feet, apparently to increase the output by better reflection from the vaulting above it.

 

I, too, am pleased that there is now a celeste on the transept organ; a voice that has been lacking since it was first built.  It is also interesting that they retained several uncommon mutations, one - 'Aliquot II-III' - of which I would particularly like to know more about its composition.  Perhaps someone can help.

 

This is, in my opinion, an excellent recording in which BOTH organs may be compared.  Although one can never be absolutely sure from recordings (for example, microphone positioning), both organs sound very impressive on this CD.

 

I now await a recording following the installation of the 40" west end tubas due this year, I believe.

 

Thank you for this information, John.

 

The last part - are you serious? :blink:

 

If these are being supplied by Klais, they must be far and away the most powerful ranks which they have ever voiced!

 

I am amazed.... I, too, will be very interested to hear a recording of these stops.

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Thank you for this information, John.

 

The last part - are you serious?  :blink:

 

If these are being supplied by Klais, they must be far and away the most  powerful ranks which they have ever voiced!

 

I am amazed....  I, too, will be very interested to hear a recording of these stops.

 

Yes, I'm pretty sure they are not a figment of my imagination(!), and will be made by Klais.

 

I understand that they will rejoice in the names of:

 

- Tuba Episcopalis 8' (which I can make sense of), and

- Tuba Capitularis 8' (the meaning of which I have no idea!)

 

John

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Yes, I'm pretty sure they are not a figment of my imagination(!), and will be made by Klais.

 

I understand that they will rejoice in the names of:

 

- Tuba Episcopalis 8' (which I can make sense of), and

- Tuba Capitularis 8' (the meaning of which I have no idea!)

 

John

 

Neither do I! The word is not recognised by any of the on-line Latin-English dictionaries which I have tried. I will ask a colleague tomorrow - since she is Head of Classics, she ought to know the meaning of the word - or whether Klais just concocted it from a couple of pre-existing words.

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- Tuba Capitularis 8' (the meaning of which I have no idea!)

 

Maybe when drawn it causes the congregation to stop singing and surrender!

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Yes, I'm pretty sure they are not a figment of my imagination(!), and will be made by Klais.

 

I understand that they will rejoice in the names of:

 

- Tuba Episcopalis 8' (which I can make sense of), and

- Tuba Capitularis 8' (the meaning of which I have no idea!)

 

John

 

I found this online: capitular, capitulary

 

of or pertaining to an ecclesiastical chapter; "capitular estates"

 

:blink:

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- Tuba Capitularis 8' (the meaning of which I have no idea!)

 

Maybe when drawn it causes the congregation to stop singing and surrender!

 

Excellent! All organs should have one!

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Excellent!  All organs should have one!

 

York already has one - even if it is not named as such.

 

It still sounds to be a fairly weird (and non-descriptive) name for a fat trumpet.

 

:blink:

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York already has one - even if it is not named as such.

 

It still sounds to be a fairly weird (and non-descriptive) name for a fat trumpet.

 

:blink:

 

"Capitular" is a canon. So you have the archbishop's tuba and the canon's tuba. Which is fatter?

 

The archdiocese of Köln has no problems paying for anything at all.

 

A good day to you all

Barry

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Well, OK - but according to my colleague in the Classics department here, capitularis means 'to surrender' (as someone has already mentioned). From it comes our word 'capitulate'. She did not mention anything about canons - fat or thin!

 

Please do not make me tell her she is wrong - this could be very dangerous....

 

:huh:

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Well, OK - but according to my colleague in the Classics department here, capitularis means 'to surrender' (as someone has already mentioned). From it comes our word 'capitulate'. She did not mention anything about canons - fat or thin!

 

Please do not make me tell her she is wrong - this could be very dangerous....

 

:huh:

 

Dear PCND,

 

Remember discretion is the better part of valour. Also , as someone about to celebrate their 36th wedding anniversary I strongly recommend selective amnesia as an invaluable aid in dealings with the fairer sex. Well, it has worked for me!

 

BAC

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Dear PCND,

 

Remember discretion is the better part of valour. Also , as someone about to celebrate their 36th wedding anniversary I strongly recommend selective amnesia as an invaluable aid in dealings with the fairer sex. Well, it has worked for me!

 

BAC

 

I shall take your advice, Brian - and simply not say anything. As you say, this is bound to be more safe!

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Well, OK - but according to my colleague in the Classics department here, capitularis means 'to surrender' (as someone has already mentioned). From it comes our word 'capitulate'. She did not mention anything about canons - fat or thin!

 

Please do not make me tell her she is wrong - this could be very dangerous....

 

:lol:

 

 

Oh, I understand......... this is made-up Latin (as so much of it is, I think); the German word for a cathedral chapter is "Kapitel", members of it are "Kapitulare", alles klar?

 

Barry

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Oh, I understand......... this is made-up Latin (as so much of it is, I think); the German word for a cathedral chapter is "Kapitel", members of it are "Kapitulare", alles klar?
Ouch! Then they could have done better. The medieval Latin for "chapter" and, by extension, "chapterhouse" is capitulum - but the genitive is capituli. For the record, a canon (as in priest) is canonicus.

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Ouch! Then they could have done better. The medieval Latin for "chapter" and, by extension, "chapterhouse" is capitulum - but the genitive is capituli. For the record, a canon (as in priest) is canonicus.

 

I know this, you know this, but does Phillip Klais know it? Apparently not!

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I know this, you know this, but does Phillip Klais know it? Apparently not!

Tuba canonica, then -- which alludes to what these things actually do. The heavy artillery. Pointless destruction, I mean.

 

I really can't see what they want with those honkers. They already have a bunch of them in the chancel organ, after all. Hooded ones, which Philipp K. (and/or his staff) likes to call, in an utterly ridiculous attempt at neologism, "gehooded" (as a German participle).

 

Best,

Friedrich

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Tuba canonica, then -- which alludes to what these things actually do. The heavy artillery. Pointless destruction, I mean.

 

I really can't see what they want with those honkers. They already have a bunch of them in the chancel organ, after all. Hooded ones, which Philipp K. (and/or his staff) likes to call, in an utterly ridiculous attempt at neologism, "gehooded" (as a German participle).

 

Best,

Friedrich

 

Ah, but have you been in Essener Dom? You can really get the congregation/ audience in your pincers with that "Auxiliaire" - they have no escape! Brilliant! Everything the power-hungry evil organist ever wanted!

 

And anything Essen can have, Cologne can have two of.

 

:D

 

Cheers

B

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Guest Andrew Butler
;) HadI I been smart enough, might I have guessed?

 

 

Just played a service at Margate Crematorium, and bt an amazing coincidencemet a local retired clergyman who knew St Thomas's in the early 1960's when i believe the Industrial Mission was based there.

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I guess St Thos would already have begun its decline into obscurity by then. According to the old hands in the congregation (who were very partisan, so doubtless I only heard one side of the story) the parish got completely wiped out one night in an air raid, so thenceforth the church drew its congregation from far and wide. It became the fashionable city church to go to because of its music - more so than Redcliffe in some ways. Some time in the fifties the church ended up with a priest who apparently went round telling everyone they really ought to be worshipping in their own parish churches - and gradually they drifted away. When that priest left it had got to the stage where the diocese felt it safe to refuse to appoint a successor and tried to declare the church redundant. The church wasn't having this and offered to pay the priest's stipend itself (it was a very rich church), but the diocese wasn't having that either. The impasse was settled by the diocese allowing the choir and congregation to continue to hold their own services without a priest, so long as they kept a low profile and didn't tell anyone what they were doing! In essence the diocese had agreed to wait until the congregation died from old age or whatever.

 

That's the situation I inherited when John Marsh left to be organist at Redcliffe: tiny, but 100% supportive congregation; fair-sized, very competent choir; church with six-figure annual income and nothing to spend it on except the music; and no priest to get in the way. The first things I did were to replace the Parish Psalters with Oxford Psalters, compile my own chant book and have copies printed and buy 30-odd copies of the Oxford Book of Tudor Anthems. Boy, we had a whale of a time!

 

From the musical point of view it was as near paradise as you could get. From the Christian/pastoral view... well you can understand why the diocese reckoned they could put the money to better use! Which is what eventually happened. The congregation having stubbornly refused to die completely (they were a tenacious bunch) St Thos eventually fell foul of the mass closure of the city centre churches in the early 80s.

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