St Mary's, Southampton

[bam]

A friend recently mentioned that he had lessons while a student on the large HWIII in St Mary's, Southampton.  Some web surfing at lunchtime turned up this......

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/4-may/news/uk/southampton-church-will-change-its-spots-to-attract-a-student-congregation

 

[Vox Humana]

I see that this is from May 2018. What's the current state of affairs?

[Rowland Wateridge]

I can’t answer your question as my contacts at St Mary’s have moved on elsewhere.  But by a strange quirk of fate, this has surfaced on the same day as John Robinson’s and David Drinkell’s discussion of HW III’s fuel-gauge swell indicators.  St Mary’s has two of them.

[AJJ]

I also learned at St. Mary’s Southampton for a year before the Collins at the university went in.

A

[Martin Cooke]

18 hours ago, Vox Humana said:

I see that this is from May 2018. What's the current state of affairs?

Well, from the website, it looks as though "it's all happening." Not my scene in terms of church and music but it looks lively and busy which is more than can be said for many churches, unfortunately. 

[pcnd5584]

On 27/06/2019 at 09:10, Martin Cooke said:

Well, from the website, it looks as though "it's all happening." Not my scene in terms of church and music but it looks lively and busy which is more than can be said for many churches, unfortunately. 

I wonder what fate will befall the HWIII instrument in this church? I note that this is an HTB plant: one thing I do know, is that at their 'home' church of Holy Trinity, Brompton, not only is the large pipe organ regularly maintained, but I understand that it has had recent work, in addition to regular maintenance. This does at least sound as if the instrument is still in regular use there.

[ptindall]

Although the HTB organ has been restored recently, it is only used for weddings when requested, not on Sundays. Most HTB plants don't use the organ, if any. 

 

[Dee Surtees]

I believe there was an HTB plant (somewhere in London) that used the organ regularly in Sunday services, as I know someone who depped there occasionally. He thought it was the only HTB church that did.

[DaveHarries]

Just looked at the photos of St. Mary's, Southampton on their Facebook page. Not my scene either in terms of church and music but each to their own.

TBH I wasn't too pleased when it was decided that my local church - St. Mary's, Stoke Bishop (Diocese of Bristol) - was to have the pews removed back in 2011 in favour of moveable chairs as well as other improvements (ie. heated flooring). Until, that was, I attended the wedding of a friend a couple of years ago which involved use of the church (service, wedding breakfast & evening cèilidh) and the adjoining church rooms (in-between those three parts). It is, in fact and despite my scepticism, a good and flexible setup which has changed my opinion somewhat.

As for services we here in Stoke Bishop have both types: 9am HC, followed by 10:30 All-Age service. The 9am is accompanied by the organ (IIIP/34: Hele of Plymouth 1909, reb. Daniel of Clevedon 1979) with the 10:30 done in a more modern way so all tastes are catered for. We have a new vicar coming later this year and I hope she will keep things as they are now as far as the church is concerned.

The church at Stoke Bishop is smaller than the one at Southampton but the modernisation at SB has, going by the photos I have seen, turned out better than Southampton's: I wonder if any of the congregation at St. Mary's Southampton decided to go elsewhere when the modernisation was done there: I certainly think that stage is in the wrong place.

Anyway sorry if I might have gone off-topic here.

Dave

[David Drinkell]

I used to practice at Stoke Bishop during my first year at Bristol University - I lived in Badock Hall along the road. A fine old Hele, I thought. I never got round to playing it after Daniel did it up .

[Rowland Wateridge]

8 hours ago, DaveHarries said:

Just looked at the photos of St. Mary's, Southampton on their Facebook page. Not my scene either in terms of church and music but each to their own.

Dave:  I’m out of touch with the present St Mary’s.  This was/ is the Parish Church of Southampton.  Before WW II it had a Father Willis organ and was a handsome mediaeval church with a tall spire - which was a landmark for mariners, and had a peal of bells that inspired the song “The bells of St Mary’s”.  The liturgy was traditional C of E in the principal Civic church.  Heathcote Statham was organist here before moving to Norwich Cathedral and, somewhat later, Richard Marlow before Trinity College, Cambridge.  When I was last at St Mary’s it tended towards ‘High Church’ so these reports about recent developments have come as something of a surprise.  

There was a period when St Mary’s became stranded in a newer and largely non-Christian ethnic community, and the dwindling congregation was shipped in from outside its immediate area.  Apparently there has been a renaissance in a different tradition - not to our taste, possibly - but in itself a welcome fact for the church.

Like Bristol,  Southampton and neighbouring Portsmouth suffered devastating bombing in WW II, and the church was left a shell apart from the spire.  Most agree that the post-war re-build was, put politely, uninspired.  Henry Willis III provided the new organ when organbuilding was suffering from all kinds of difficulties and restraints, and was able to incorporate some Father Willis pipework from elsewhere (Stirling, Scotland, I think, although not certain).  Within those limitations he produced a fine eclectic instrument, but I gather it now needs a lot of money spent on it - a familiar scenario.

[Dee Surtees]

According to NPOR (N18210) “the organ at St Mary’s Southampton (N11630) is said to ‘incorporate some Father Willis pipework from the former Albert Hall in Stirling’.” This is corroborated by the entry for Stirling Town Hall in Alan Buchan’s Organs in Scotland (2018).

[Rowland Wateridge]

A very late addition on the subject of St Mary’s.  On an earlier thread, the then organist of St Mary’s commented that it was odd that the oldest members of his choir had no recollection of Alwyn Surplice being the organist there.  Very simply, he never was, and this is a clear case of mistaken identity.  As mentioned above, Heathcote Statham was organist of St Mary’s.  So far as I am aware, the only ‘parish’ position which Alwyn Surplice held was Holy Trinity, Windsor (also the Garrison Church) itself linked to St George’s Chapel where Surplice was successively Assistant and Sub-Organist before his two cathedral appointments, Bristol and Winchester.

[MikeK]

D. Cecil Williams was organist at St. Mary’s, Southampton from 1936 until the 1970’s. He was responsible for the installation of the new organ in the rebuilt church, which had a remarkable likeness in specification to The instrument in All Souls, Langham Place, both being built by Willis111 around the same time. 

[Rowland Wateridge]

Indeed, and I used to know people who both remembered him and were taught by him.  He donated a stop to the new organ.  He was succeeded by Richard Marlow who, however, did not stay very long.  

Heathcote Statham was a pre-WW II predecessor and, I am quite certain, this was the source of confusion with Alwyn Surplice who was at Windsor in the relevant years.

The pre-war organ, destroyed with much of the church in WW II bombing, was an 1879/ 1894 Father Willis which HW III further worked on in 1931.   As mentioned above, HW III was able to include some Father Willis pipework in the 1956 replacement instrument.