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£155 now - and 19 bids!! 

I can't believe there are 19 FRCO's out there needing a hood and being prepared to pay that kind of money!!

How much is a new one? I only paid £95 for my Ph.D. hood! 

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53 minutes ago, S_L said:

£155 now - and 19 bids!! 

I can't believe there are 19 FRCO's out there needing a hood and being prepared to pay that kind of money!!

How much is a new one? I only paid £95 for my Ph.D. hood! 

Well, exactly! I'm sure a new one can't be more than £155. I wonder if there is just a chance that the old ones are slightly better quality - real silk etc?? Or, perhaps, this one belonged to someone famous - Howells or Vaughan Williams...!! (Unlikely, of course)

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2 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

 Or, perhaps, this one belonged to someone famous - Howells or Vaughan Williams...!! (Unlikely, of course)

 

Most unlikely as you say Martin - because VW died in 1958 and didn't the new hood come in about early 1970!! It could have been Howells, I suppose - he died in 1983!!

The old hood was turquoise and brown, my Grandmother had one!!! Someone told me that the new hood was inspired (or even designed) by Francis Jackson - no doubt I'll be corrected on that!!!

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The vendor is based in Leeds, if that provides any clue.   

There’s an earlier thread on this very topic, and the asking price (new) from Ede & Ravenscroft was then £220, I think. I’m certain that Martin contributed with his recollections of Harry Gabb having the new version of the hood!  As I recall, it was John Birch who inaugurated it, possibly as President of both the RCO and the Burgon Society, and thus Chichester connections all round.  Burgon was a 19th century Dean of Chichester and a stickler for correct formality in clerical dress and everything connected with the Cathedral (he is known to have harangued the lay vicars on, as he considered, their poor singing!).  His name was adopted by the Society, which was founded in 2000, for promoting study of academic dress.

As a postscript, I’m sure that both Martin and S_L contributed to the earlier thread which included some discussion of the cost of different academic hoods.  To the best of my recollection, the ‘new’ FRCO hood was described as of crimson damask with a special and very expensive lining of shot-silk, hence the expense.  Ede & Ravenscroft appeared to have a monopoly.  The thread was started by ‘Justadad’, but I can’t track it down today!

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Thanks for that link which totally escaped me when searching earlier today.  If £225 was the asking price ten years ago, it will certainly be more by now.  We now have the accurate description, and justification for its cost: “Red Tudor Rose Silk Damask and the lining of 'Pearl', a shot silk of three colours woven together”.   

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On 22/10/2020 at 11:50, wolsey said:

Available today in silk at £200 (cheaper than in previous years; a new supplier?) and now in artificial silk at £130. The latter doesn't appear to be in stock at present.

Oh dear, that seems a shame that there is a non-silk version. Actually, the pic doesn't really represent the hood properly. The original 'new' hood introduced in the 60's had rounded corners to the cape in the shape of the London University hoods, but possibly a little smaller. I read somewhere though that the hood has been made in Oxford Doctors' shape which is a much larger hood with a rounded cape rather than just rounded corners, if you see what I mean. However, I can find no evidence to support this anywhere so I could easily have got this wrong.

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15 hours ago, John Robinson said:

Just out of interest, what was the reason for the change in colours of the FRCO hood?

It's difficult to imagine that there was anything more to it than a reappraisal with a view to something more worthy. The chocolate and blue was hardly glamorous though the RCO was not the only institution to use brown in its academical dress. I wonder, actually, if the brown colour was originally chosen to fit in with the Russet Brown in London BA, MA and DLitt hoods.

More recently, and with the introduction of a new range of qualifications, the RCO has introduced hoods for all qualifications, including an updated version of the ARCO. Some of these utilise the old blue shade, but I don't think the brown comes into it at all. There is a very full illustrated explanation of all of this somewhere but I am blowed if I can find it. I think Francis Jackson is credited with pushing the new FRCO hood forward, though I don't know that that is true. As Rowland says in a previous post, it was John Birch who saw through the expansion of the RCO academical dress.

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I bet I'll stand corrected by people with better knowledge of the topic, but isn't there a rule that if your institution changes academic dress you should wear the dress that was current at the date of your graduation ceremony? I'm sure I remember this when the university of Wales split out (and my hood lost its shot silk and became cheaper but I needed to stay with the expensive one) and I think it applies to the CNAA qualifications too, though in those cases the institutions changed so this one is probably different.

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8 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

It's difficult to imagine that there was anything more to it than a reappraisal with a view to something more worthy. The chocolate and blue was hardly glamorous though the RCO was not the only institution to use brown in its academical dress. I wonder, actually, if the brown colour was originally chosen to fit in with the Russet Brown in London BA, MA and DLitt hoods.

More recently, and with the introduction of a new range of qualifications, the RCO has introduced hoods for all qualifications, including an updated version of the ARCO. Some of these utilise the old blue shade, but I don't think the brown comes into it at all. There is a very full illustrated explanation of all of this somewhere but I am blowed if I can find it. I think Francis Jackson is credited with pushing the new FRCO hood forward, though I don't know that that is true. As Rowland says in a previous post, it was John Birch who saw through the expansion of the RCO academical dress.

Thanks.  Very interesting.  Actually, I quite like chocolate and blue!

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I feel I ought to acknowledge that S_L was correct in originally attributing the re-design of the hood to Francis Jackson.  As recounted elsewhere, I used to see Harry Gabb at St Paul’s Cathedral in the very early 1960s, but didn’t pay much attention to his hood.  It was only a glimpse before he disappeared behind the screen surrounding the ‘Willis on Wheels’ in use at the time of the last pre-Mander rebuild.  If it was his FRCO hood, it must have been the original one.  In those days both he and Richard Popplewell wore a winged collar with white bow tie with cassock and full-sleeved surplice (which reached well ‘below the knees’) and academic hood.

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1 hour ago, Rowland Wateridge said:

I feel I ought to acknowledge that S_L was correct in originally attributing the re-design of the hood to Francis Jackson. 

Thank you Rowland, I appreciate that! I was sure that it was Raymond Sunderland had told me that FJ had some input into the new FRCO hood  but was slightly wary of mentioning it because, on here, people are so quick to refute what one writes!! Of course, I've never worn one and am amazed at the cost. As I said my Ph.D hood cost me, I think £75 and, of the innumerable hoods that I have earned I don't think I ever paid more than £50 for one. I can't remember the last time I wore a hood - perhaps Evensong at Kings in the last century!!!

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2 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:

I feel I ought to acknowledge that S_L was correct in originally attributing the re-design of the hood to Francis Jackson.  As recounted elsewhere, I used to see Harry Gabb at St Paul’s Cathedral in the very early 1960s, but didn’t pay much attention to his hood.  It was only a glimpse before he disappeared behind the screen surrounding the ‘Willis on Wheels’ in use at the time of the last pre-Mander rebuild.  If it was his FRCO hood, it must have been the original one.  In those days both he and Richard Popplewell wore a winged collar with white bow tie with cassock and full-sleeved surplice and academic hood.

Harry Gabb certainly wore a chocolate and blueish hood at St Paul's.  Someone is playing the Willis on Wheels at 32 seconds into this clip https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVABL93QBX197L8XI3ZUQFCLX35-UK-SAVE-THE-CHILDREN-FUND-ANNIVERSARY-SERVICE-AT-ST-PAULS/query/ST+PAULS+CATHEDRAL   but I can't see if it's Harry or DB.   I don't remember winged collars at St Paul's, except for Virgers, and then  only on Sundays (White ties for the Dean's Virger, black ties for the others).  I think you'll find that winged collars and bow ties is a Chapel Royal thing - where Harry and Richard were each DoM in their time.  Harry combined the role with being sub-organist at St Paul's.   The full-sleeved surplices demanded modest gestures of any conductor because of the swan-necked light on the conductor's music stand.  If this got caught by a passing sleeve it would immediately rotate through 180 degrees and illuminate the conductor's feet.  Richard Popplwell's style of conducting did not really take account of this, and there were mishaps.....  Nobody batted an eyelid, of course, but wondering if it was going to happen added to the fun ....  It couldn't happen now.  Surplices have opening in the sleeves, and the old (mains) lamp has been replaced by a battery-operated one that is firmly clamped to the desk.

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Great stuff, Robert - no, I can't tell is that's WHG or JDB at the organ. There was, I have read, quite a 'business' about the positioning of the Willis on Wheels during this period whilst work was done on the organ. The Chapter wanted it to remain  in the N Transept (absurd!) and a grand piano to do duty instead! 

Richard Popplewell also wore the old FRCO hood.

In the article by John Birch above, I can't remember if he mentions it, but he usually wore his old FRCO hood on 'unaccompanied Friday.' I think he might have had a 'festal' new FRCO hood made specially for him. He had two - one was very much a weekday affair, whereas the special came on on high days. 

There was an interesting thing at St Paul's with the Vicars Choral. Ordinarily, none of them wore hoods except Peter Salmon, an alto who was a master at the choir school - (MA Cantab.) But for special occasions a number wore hoods though I only have scant memory of these. Andrew Pearmain, another alto, wore his FRCO (new) and Ian Hunter, yet another alto, wore GTCL, but I am not sure that anyone else bothered even though they were certainly entitled to. 

Generally, at the cathedral there were some very smart hoods. Dean Matthews had several doctorates, earned and honorary, and always changed with the seasons. I particularly remember his Cambridge DD and St Andrews DD hoods - the latter in Wood Violet and white, so very much his lenten array! Other clergy had doctorates mostly from US universities including Bishop Wand, who also changed with the seasons. He was DD Oxon but never wore the garb, preferring his USA and Canadian hoods which were magnificent. Canon Hood himself had a DD from Nashotah House. All reverted to their MA hoods for Advent and Lent - not the Dean who had his purple hood. No hoods were finer than John Dykes Bower's, Oxford DMus and then Christopher Dearnley's Oxford BMus. 

If you want to see - or even purchase (!) - a beautiful hood, the owner of the eBay FRCO hood is also disposing of their Trinity Dublin BMus on eBay - take a took!

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As must now be obvious, Martin and I were writing at the same time, but he got in first.  I will let my comment below stand as originally written.

Well, this is something of a mystery as I have never been to the Chapel Royal, and the only place I ever saw Harry Gabb or Richard Popplewell in the flesh was the ‘extra’ 6.30 pm Evensong at St Paul’s, as I said, circa 1960, and my recollection of the winged collar and white tie remains clear.  My other recollection is of no one conducting at that service.  A lay vicar at the end, western position, on each side kept the beat.  At this service the choristers were released before the sermon which was at the end of the service, and the final hymn was sung by the Gentlemen of the Evening Choir alone, with the congregation of course.

The film clip is fascinating, but unfortunately I am not getting any sound.  I can’t imagine why the Willis on Wheels was played.  Was the Grand Organ already out of action in 1959?  The clergy procession includes Bishop Henry Montgomery-Campbell (who had confirmed me about five years earlier), and afterwards, senior clergy of other denominations, including General Booth (?) of the Salvation Army, descending the western steps followed in the rear by Archbishop Geoffrey Fisher in his cassock looking quizzically at the camera.  Martin Cooke will also be familiar with this kind of occasion with all the grandees of the City of London, Lord Mayor and Common Serjeant in his fur cap with the sword and Aldermen.   Very nostalgic!

As an afterthought, as I understand, there would have been no lay vicars at the 6.30 pm Evensong, so the beat was kept by two members of the Gentlemen’s Evening Choir.  That could also account for other differences from the ‘main‘ Sunday services.

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Another recollection about hoods, this time Westminster Abbey.  Not sure where I read this (possibly Watkins Shaw’s ‘The Succession of Organists’ which I can’t currently access).  After his appointment to the Abbey, Ernest Bullock wore his Durham DMus robes only to be admonished and told by the then Dean that only those of Oxford and Cambridge were permitted to be worn in the Abbey.  I wonder whether that rule still holds.  This must have been around the time of his appointment in 1928.  I recall reading that he was, understandably, distressed by this, and never wore them again.

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3 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

If you want to see - or even purchase (!) - a beautiful hood, the owner of the eBay FRCO hood is also disposing of their Trinity Dublin BMus on eBay - take a took!

 

He is also selling an ARCO and ARCM hood

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