The ones that got away...

[Paul Isom]

I have been re-reading the Forsyth-Grant book and very much enjoyed the chapter titled 'The ones that got away' - schemes that never quite reach fruition.  I would be fascinated to learn about schemes that were submitted for cathedrals and churches but never made it, either because of lack of funds, or simply because the contract was lost to another builder.  For instance were there alternative schemes for the organs of Gloucester and Christ Church, Oxford.  It would be fascinating to learn just what might have been...

[Adnosad]

" fascinating to learn what might have been "..................more horrified to read what they might have been would be a more apt description IMHO.

The mere mention of " Gloucester " on these pages could still result in some members being wheeled into I C !

The temptation to  " tinker " and " improve" does however prove irresistible to some ; hence that enfant terrible known as " The Organ Reform Movement".

The book you mention sounds interesting; I will investigate it further , if I can find the time 

 

[Vox Humana]

8 hours ago, Adnosad said:

The temptation to  " tinker " and " improve" does however prove irresistible to some

Only some? I know I'm not that well connected, but I'm not at all sure I've ever met an organist who is completely happy with what (s)he's got. If they have not tinkered, it's probably only because of lack of funds.

[Aeron Glyn Preston]

Here's a good place to start.

http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/props/index.htm

[Dafydd y Garreg Wen]

The greatest one-that-got-away must be Renatus Harris’ scheme for S. Paul’s:

http://www.stephenbicknell.org/3.6.17.php

If something like this had been implemented (granted that Harris’ proposals are over the top), British organ building would have leaped forwards to a point it didn’t actually reach until the 1840s. With the S. Paul’s instrument as an example and model, pedals (inter alia) would surely have caught on much sooner.

The course of musical history would have been very different.

[Paul_H]

I don't think I've ever seen this published before - it's the 1965 proposed specification for a 5-manual rebuild of the Bridlington Priory organ.

Raymond Sunderland was my choirmaster at Bridlington Priory as well as piano teacher and music teacher at my secondary school.  I'd always been keen on the "nuts and bolts" of the organ and spent many a chilly hour holding notes whilst he tuned.  He gave me this copy of the specification at school one day - it was a typical school glossy photostat of the original carbon-copy, so it's not the best quality.  I tried scanning but it's not at all easy to read, so as I've got time on my hands at the moment (furloughed!!) I've typed it up for posterity.  (I didn't type the back six pages which detail the physical work, but if anyone's interested I've another three weeks of this to fill so just say the word!)

There are a couple of obvious typos in the original which I've kept but made a note of.  

Hope you find it interesting.

Paul

 

EDIT - for some reason the attached PDF wouldn't load, trying again with a standard Word document instead 

EDIT 2 - that didn't work either, posted in-line below. Sorry 😞

 

[S_L]

16 hours ago, Paul_H said:

I don't think I've ever seen this published before - it's the 1965 proposed specification for a 5-manual rebuild of the Bridlington Priory organ.

Raymond Sunderland was my choirmaster at Bridlington Priory as well as piano teacher and music teacher at my secondary school.  I'd always been keen on the "nuts and bolts" of the organ and spent many a chilly hour holding notes whilst he tuned.  He gave me this copy of the specification at school one day - it was a typical school glossy photostat of the original carbon-copy, so it's not the best quality.  I tried scanning but it's not at all easy to read, so as I've got time on my hands at the moment (furloughed!!) I've typed it up for posterity.  (I didn't type the back six pages which detail the physical work, but if anyone's interested I've another three weeks of this to fill so just say the word!)

There are a couple of obvious typos in the original which I've kept but made a note of.  

Hope you find it interesting.

Paul

 

Bridlington Priory 1965.pdfUnavailable

I knew Raymond Sunderland well. He was my close friend and I was, I know like yourself, devastated that Christmas morning in 1977.

I'd love to read the enclosure - but unfortunately it won't show on my computer!!!

 

 

[Paul_H]

40 minutes ago, S_L said:

I knew Raymond Sunderland well. He was my close friend and I was, I know like yourself, devastated that Christmas morning in 1977.

I'd love to read the enclosure - but unfortunately it won't show on my computer!!!

 

 

I've re-uploaded as a standard Word file in case it was the PDF it didn't like - if that doesn't work I'll have to think of something else.  You wouldn't believe I worked in IT, would you!

[S_L]

1 hour ago, Paul_H said:

I've re-uploaded as a standard Word file in case it was the PDF it didn't like - if that doesn't work I'll have to think of something else.  You wouldn't believe I worked in IT, would you!

Sorry - it still shows as: "This attachment is not available. It may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it to this location."

Perhaps it's my computer!!!

[oscar_rook]

I too have the same error message.

[Paul_H]

OK, no idea what's going on.  I'll just post it here as raw text.  The formatting's a bit off but you'll get the idea.
Really sorry for the problems - clearly a bit of a newbie when it comes to posting attachments!

 

I don't think I've ever seen this published before - it's the 1965 proposed specification for a 5-manual rebuild of the Bridlington Priory organ.

Raymond Sunderland was my choirmaster at Bridlington Priory as well as piano teacher and music teacher at my secondary school.  I'd always been keen on the "nuts and bolts" of the organ and spent many a chilly hour holding notes whilst he tuned.  He gave me this copy of the specification at school one day - it was a typical school glossy photostat of the original carbon-copy, so it's not the best quality.  I tried scanning but it's not at all easy to read, so as I've got time on my hands at the moment (furloughed!!) I've typed it up for posterity.  (I didn't type the back six pages which detail the physical work, but if anyone's interested I've another three weeks of this to fill so just say the word!)

There are a couple of obvious typos in the original which I've kept but made a note of.  

Hope you find it interesting.

Paul

 

 

BRIDLINGTON PRIORY

DETAILED SPECIFICATION FOR REBUILDING THE PRESENT ORGAN

INTO FIVE MANUALS WITH PEDALS, AS RECOMMENDED IN SCHEME II.

 

LAYCOCK & BANNISTER 29 APRIL 1965

113 Speaking Stops; 26 Couplers; 4 Tremulants

MANUAL COMPASS: CC to C

PEDAL COMPASS: CCC to G

6628 Pipes

 

New Electro-Pneumatic Action throughout with New All Electric Detached Console

Cost: £18,000 approximately

 

ECHO ORGAN. Fifth Manual (Top)

Enclosed.

 

1. Contra Dulciana 16ft

2. Gemshorn 8ft Ex Anneessens Choir

3. Viola 8ft Ex Anneessens Choir

4. Flauto Traverso 8ft

5. Dulciana 8ft

6. Flauto Traverso 4ft

7. Dulcet 4ft

8. Nazard 2 2/3ft

9. Dulcet Twelfth 2 2/3ft

10. Flautino 2ft

11. Dulcet Fifteenth 2ft

12. Tierce 1 2/3ft *

13. Octavin 1ft

14. Mixture 22:26:29 3 ranks. 183 pipes

 

5,7,9,11: extension of No.1

6,8,10,13: extension of No.4

 

i. Tremulant

ii. Echo Octave

 

6 Thumb Pistons: Double Touch, Echo – Pedal

1 Reversible Thumb Piston, Echo – Pedal

 

Analysis and Origin

Disposition: In substantial box situated above the present Swell Box on new platform

Origin: Present enclosed Choir

Additions: 

No.2 & No.3 Ex unenclosed Choir

No.12 Ex unenclosed Choir

No.13 Extension of Flautino 2ft (Traverso unit)

No.14 Mixture (New) 183 pipes, scale to No.4

Tremulant. New-slow beat

Octave Coupler. New

*Transcription note: No.12 is as per manuscript but is probably a typo (likely intended to be 1 3/5ft)

 

 

SOLO ORGAN. Fourth Manual

Enclosed Division (in Substantial Box above Swell)

1. Viola 16ft New (Tenor C) 49 pipes

2. Hohl Flute 8ft (Ex Anneessens Choir) 61 pipes

3. Gedact 8ft (Ex Anneesseens Choir) 61 pipes

4. Viole da Gamba 8ft (Ex Willis Choir–heavy scale) 61 pipes

5. Celeste 8ft (Ex Willis Swell) 49 pipes

6. Viol 4ft (New. Scaled to No.4) 61 pipes

7. Gedact Flute 4ft (Ex Anneessens Choir) 61 pipes

8. Mixture 12:17 2rks (New, scaled to 2/3/7) 122 pipes

9. Flageolet 2ft (Ex Willis Swell) 61 pipes

10. Clarinette 16ft (Ex Anneessens Choir) 61 pipes

11. Clarinet 8ft (Ex Willis Choir) 61 pipes

12. Vox Humaine 8ft (Ex Anneessens Swell) 61 pipes

13. English Horn 8ft (New) 61 pipes

Tremulant (Slow deep beat)

 

Unenclosed Division (in Triforium Arch above main case)

14. Tuba Mirabilis 8ft (Ex Anneessen / Compton Choir, 61 pipes extended to complete bottom octave at same scale)

15. Tuba Minor 8ft (Ex Anneessen / Compton Choir. 61 pipes extension of Pedal Tuba Unit)

16. Cornet IVrks (from Anneessens Great 244 pipes extended to CCC)

 

COUPLERS

Solo Octave

Solo Sub Octave

Solo Unison Off

Echo to Solo

10 Thumb Pistons to Solo

1 Reversible Thumb Piston [Solo] to Pedal

 

 

SWELL ORGAN. Third Manual

1. Lieblich Bourdon 16ft (Situate 32 pipes on separate chest to facilitate duplication of 32 notes to Pedal Organ) 61 pipes

2. Stopped Diapason 8ft 61 pipes

3. Geigen Diapason 8ft 61 pipes

4. Vox Angelica 8ft 49 pipes

5. Viole de Gambe 8ft 61 pipes

6. Flute 4ft 61 pipes

7. Geigen Principal 4ft 61 pipes

8. Fifteenth 2ft 61 pipes

9. Quartane 12:15 2rks 122 pipes

10. Mixture 15:19:22:26 4rks (new on separate chest) 244 pipes

11. Contra Bassoon 16ft 61 pipes

12. Oboe 8ft 61 pipes

13. Bassoon 8ft (from No.11)

14. Trompette 8ft 61 pipes

15. Clarion 4ft (new – scale to no.14) 61 pipes

Tremulant

 

COUPLERS

Swell Octave

Swell Sub Octave

Swell Unison Off (acting on all stops)

Solo to Swell

Echo to Swell

 

10 Thumb Pistons – double touch, Swell – Pedal

5 Toe Pistons – double touch, Swell – Pedal

1 Reversible Thumb Piston – Swell to Pedal

 

Box – on present site, but to be restored and possibly deepened. Doors and interior to be lined to give better Diminuendo And Crescendo effect.

 

GREAT ORGAN – Second Manual

DIVISION I

(Original Anneessens – situated on the Original Soundboard)

 

1. Double Diapason 16ft Bottom ofctave from Pedal 16ft Gross, remaining pipes from Compton Diapason II

2. Bourdon 16ft 61 pipes

3. Open Diapason 8ft 61 pipes

4. Violon 8ft 61 pipes

5. Flute Harmonique 8ft 61 pipes

6. Principal 4ft 61 pipes

7. Ocarina 4ft 61 pipes

8. Twelfth 2 2/3ft 61 pipes

9. Fifteenth 2ft 61 pipes

10. Twenty Second 1ft New, 61 pipes

11. Cornet IV ranks On separate chest along with Trompette & Clarion – New pipes to extend the Cornet down to CCC. 244 pipes

12. Bombarde 16ft Resituate on one chest, elevated on North Wall, 61 pipes

13. Trompette 8ft Resituate on chest above Anneessens Great, 61 pipes

14. Clarion 4ft As Trompette above, 61 pipes

 

DIVISION II

(English Chorus, situated behind Sanctuary Organ Case)

 

1. Double Open Diapason 16ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

2. Open Diapason 8ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

3. Claribel Flute 8ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

4. Principal 4ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

5. Twelfth 2 2/3ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

6. Fifteenth 2ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

7. Mixture 15:19:22 3rks Ex Willis Great, 183 pipes

8. Tromba 8ft Ex Willis Great, 61 pipes

 

COUPLERS

Echo to Great

Solo to Great

Swell to Great

Positive to Great

Bombarde to Great

 

8 Split Thumb Pistons (square in two colours) – double touch, Division I and Division II – Great – Pedal

1 Reversible Thumb Piston for Solo to Great

1 Reversible Thumb Piston for Swell to Great

1 Reversible Thumb Piston for Bombarde to Great

1 Rocker Tablet in end of Great Key-Slip: Divi I, Both, Divi II

 

 

POSITIVE ORGAN – first manual

(Pipe work situated on the spare sliders of the Anneessens chest – with necessary additional chests – voiced to give a bright powerful Positive, with a homogenous build into a chorus)

 

1. Quintaton 16ft New, 61 pipes

2. Open Diapason 8ft Ex Anneessens Choir, 61 pipes

3. Stopped Diapason 8ft New, 61 pipes

4. Spitz Flote 4ft New (conical). 61 pipes

5. Principal 4ft New, 61 pipes

6. Nazard 2 2/3ft New, 61 pipes

7. Fifteenth 2ft New, 61 pipes

8. Block Flote 2ft New, Opulent & Large Scale, 61 pipes

9. Tierce 1 3/5ft New, 61 pipes

10. Larigot 1 1/3ft New, 61 pipes

11. Sifflote 1ft New, 61 pipes

12. Harmonics 15:19:22 3rks New, 183 pipes *

13. Krummhorn 8ft New, 61 pipes

 

Tremulant

 

BOMBARDE ORGAN – played from the Positive Manual

 

(Flue pipework situated in the Sanctuary Triforium Arch)

 

1. Double Open Diapason 16ft New (12 from Pedal Open Metal) 61 pipes

2. Open Diapason 8ft Ex Compton Great No. I, 61 pipes

3. Octave Diapason 4ft New, 61 pipes

4. Fourniture 12:15:19:22 4rks New, 244 pipes

5. Grand Plein Jeux 22:26:29:33:36  5rks New, scaled to integrate and complement the full Great Organ, 305 pipes

6. Bombarde 16ft Duplication of Anneessens Great

7. Trompette 8ft Duplication of Anneessens Great

8. Clarion 4ft Duplication of Anneessens Great

 

COUPLERS

Swell to Positive

Solo to Positive

Octave to Reeds – nos. 6, 7, 8 – Bombarde Organ

Sub Octave to Reeds – nos. 6, 7, 8 – Bombarde Organ

 

Six Thumb Pistons – Double Touch – Positive and Pedal

One Reversible Thumb Piston – Positive to Pedal

Three Toe Pistons – Positive to Pedal **

Four Thumb Pistons – Bombarde to Pedal **

Two Toe Pistons – Pedal – Bombarde **

 

Transcription notes:

* - Positive No 12 as typed. Crossed out in RGS’s hand and “Cymbal – 29:33:36” inserted

** - these are as typed but likely typo’s.

 

PEDAL ORGAN

 

1. Double Diapason 32ft Ex Willis Pedal Organ – 32 Pedal Diapason heavy scale 16ft pipes stopped to give 32ft pitch. 32 pipes

2. Sub Soubasse 32ft From No. 5 with Polyphone Bass

3. Open Metal 16ft Redispose to fit in with English Bombarde Chorus in Triforium Arch. 32 notes from No. 1 Bombarde Organ

4. Grosse Flute 16ft 32 pipes

5. Soubasse 16ft 32 pipes

6. Lieblich Bourdon 16ft Duplication – 32 notes from Swell

7. Dulciana 16ft Duplication – 32 notes from Echo – 5 bottom pipes in Sanctuary Case

8. Quinte 10 2/3ft Derived from No. 5

9. Flute Bass 8ft Extension of No. 5

10. Flute Principal 8ft Extension of No. 4

11. Open Diapason 8ft New Metal – scale to No. 4. 32 pipes

12. Quinte 5 1/3ft Derived from No. 5

13. Flute 4ft Extension of No. 9

14. Principal 4ft New Metal – scale to No.11. 32 pipes

15. Twenty Second 2ft New Metal – scale to No.14. 32 pipes

16. Fourniture 19:22:26:29 4rks New Metal – scale and merge with No.4,11,14 & 15 – the above Chorus to be situated as high as possible on the North Wall. 128 pipes

 

REEDS

 

17. Contra Tuba 32ft To be lowered as near the ground as possible and supported on separate frame. 32 pipes

18. Tubasson 16ft Extension of 17

19. Bombarde 16ft Resituated – see Great Organ (32 notes from Great)

20. Bassoon 16ft 32 notes from Swell

21. Tuba 8ft Extension of 18

22. Tuba Clarion 4ft (From Tuba Minor – Solo Organ) 32 notes from Solo

23. Clarion 4ft 32 notes from Swell Bassoon

 

COUPLERS

Echo to Pedal

Solo to Pedal

Solo Octave to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

Great to Pedal

Positive to Pedal

 

10 Toe Pistons – Double Touch – Pedal & Great, incorporating Divisions I & II in conjunction with the manual rocking tablet

2 Toe Pistons – Double Touch – Pedal & Bombarde

 

 

GENERAL

Detached Five Manual & Pedal All Electic Console

 

Fifth Manual (Top) Echo Organ )) Keyboards rising at

Fourth Manual Solo Organ      )) an angle

Third Manual Swell Organ      ))

Second Manual Great Organ     Keyboard horizontal

First Manual Positive & Bombarde Keyboard slight angle drop

 

Ivory head Drowstops arranged in jambs as shown in the layout of the Charts, 45°. All stop heads to be lettered in Black except the Couplers and Tremulants which will be in Red.

Ivory nameplates to each department, above the Stop Knobs

Ivory nameplate on end of each key slip of Manual

Thumb Pistons to be lettered and numbered

Toe Pistons to have labels

Manual action ¼” depression before speaking

Pedal Board: 32 note radiating & concave

Crescendo Pedals for Echo; Swell; Solo, nameplate above each pedal. Variable and adjustable all electric contacts behind each pedal, with adjustable friction cylinders for foot pressure. These pedals will control 3 new specially designed Electro-Pneumatic 10 station Swell Engines.

Reversible Toe Pistons for Individual Stops:

Tuba Mirabilis (Solo)

Contra 32ft Tuba (Pedal) Extreme Right

Soubasse 32ft (Pedal) Hand side.

 

General Cancel Piston, all stops cancelling.

Signal light with two panels built into console case near music desk, frosted glass fronts and named “Rector’s Vestry” and “Choir Vestry”

Suitable light for Music Desk

Organ Stool cut out slightly at front edge for leg shape

New “Discus” quiet running Blower, with approx 5h.p. three phase squirrel cage motor fitted with ring oilers and sleeve bearings and specially designed for quietness in operation, also long life. This blower will be installed by the “Discus” firm of Watkins & Watson Ltd and will carry their full Guarantee. A new “Discus” Transformer / Rectifier Unit will be supplied to replace the present motor/generator plant which shows a considerable voltage drop when load is applied. This rectifier will be 3 Phase Input with a 50 ampere 18 volts D.C. output for the action current. Very robust in design which embodies full smoothing and good regulation with minimum voltage drop even when playing full organ. A volt meter will be fitted on the console.

The present BOBCO booster blower supplying the 15” wind pressure to the Tuba Mirabilis is in first class condition and will be retained.

A New On & Off Push Button Switch will be fitted on the Console, this will control a fully automatic star-delta starter sited inside the organ, the two blowers and rectifier will thus come under the control of one switch, an indicator light will be fitted on the console.