St John's, Cambridge

[Vox Humana]

27 minutes ago, Rowland Wateridge said:

Well, Trinity College next door only has one more speaking stop than Stephen Bicknell’s original Walker design for St John’s, and it likewise has no “party horns” and no 32’s.  How do they manage?

I think the answer to that is 'on the whole, very well': http://trinitycollegechapel.com/services/service-list-archive/

No music is fatally compromised by a lack of 32's and there is more than enough quality music out there that doesn't require a Tuba. But sometimes you just wish...: 

 

[Rowland Wateridge]

 

11 hours ago, Vox Humana said:

No music is fatally compromised by a lack of 32's and there is more than enough quality music out there that doesn't require a Tuba. But sometimes you just wish...: 

I defer to you expert players - and this discussion has become entirely hypothetical anyway! - but in Stephen Bicknell’s scheme could a ‘party horn’ effect be achieved with the Great trumpet plus cornet?  He doesn’t specify whether the latter is to be a five ranks mounted cornet; I have heard that combination do the trick.  But would his Swell be sufficient to accompany it?  He does concede that tracker action was limiting in this particular situation, and thus no option of a transfer of Great reeds on Choir.

[innate]

5 minutes ago, Rowland Wateridge said:

 

I defer to you expert players - and this discussion has become entirely hypothetical anyway! - but in Stephen Bicknell’s scheme could a ‘party horn’ effect be achieved with the Great trumpet plus cornet? 

I’ve often used the Cornet V + Trumpet 8' to serve as a “super solo reed” in pieces such as the Tippet canticles, especially on two organs that no longer exist where I was on the staff: the HNB at Exeter College, Oxford and the HNB at the Tower of London.

[DariusB]

1 hour ago, Rowland Wateridge said:

I defer to you expert players - and this discussion has become entirely hypothetical anyway! - but in Stephen Bicknell’s scheme could a ‘party horn’ effect be achieved with the Great trumpet plus cornet?  

If the trumpet is on a low-ish pressure, it will fall off markedly in the treble, whereas the cornet will be non-existent at the bottom, quiet in the middle and get much stronger in the treble.  Drawing them together is sometimes the only way to get an even volume through the whole compass.

[Vox Humana]

I have mentioned this organ before. Rebuilt out of all recognition a few years ago, it was one of Hele's (or was it Dicker's?) more interesting efforts, being, for its modest size, a surprisingly effective orchestral concept. The reeds were not loud. Adding the Swell Cornopean to a flue ensemble gave the effect a whole orchestral string section joining the ensemble. The Great Trumpet was also more of colouring agent than a climax stop. No high pressure stop, it was quite thin toned—just the thing, in fact, for English Baroque trumpet voluntaries. As a solo stop it was quite useless. Until you added the Gt Open Diapason. This both filled out the tone and blended perfectly, producing a perfectly adequate, louder solo Trumpet. The problem then was that you didn't have all that much left with which to accompany it. I am not sure how well this ploy would work with louder, fuller-toned Trumpet stops: I've never had to try it.

[John Robinson]

10 hours ago, DariusB said:

If the trumpet is on a low-ish pressure, it will fall off markedly in the treble, whereas the cornet will be non-existent at the bottom, quiet in the middle and get much stronger in the treble.  Drawing them together is sometimes the only way to get an even volume through the whole compass.

Yes, I can see why Cornets can be particularly useful.

[John Robinson]

8 hours ago, Vox Humana said:

I have mentioned this organ before, etc.

I noticed earlier this evening, and again when I clicked 'this' above, that NPOR doesn't seem to be working.
Does anyone have any ideas of what the problem might be?

[Vox Humana]

1 hour ago, John Robinson said:

I noticed earlier this evening, and again when I clicked 'this' above, that NPOR doesn't seem to be working.
Does anyone have any ideas of what the problem might be?

Yes, it seems to have keeled over. It was working when I posted - I checked the link.

[Martin Cooke]

Is there any more news 'out there' about the replacement organ at St John's - or, for that matter, about the change of instrument at Magdalen, Oxford?

[innate]

Just seen this in a Church Times advert for a Director of Music at St John the Divine, Kennington, London:

“We will be installing a four-manual organ, currently in use at St John’s College, Cambridge, in 2025.”

Presumably with a new, more streamlined action, but possibly lots of other new parts too. The Kennington church doesn’t seem to be short of money.

[S_L]

8 hours ago, innate said:

Just seen this in a Church Times advert for a Director of Music at St John the Divine, Kennington, London:

And I'm pleased to see 'It is not essential to be an organist'

[A G Preston]

Which builder will be responsible for this?

I am curious to know how it would be rebuilt, as the design of the organ at St John's was shaped to a great extent by the existing casework built between two arches.

[Jonathan]

St John's Cambridge.  See the Harrisons website under Projects & Plans.  No spec yet. 

[Rowland Wateridge]

Doubtless he will correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought A G Preston was referring to the Mander from St John’s, Cambridge being rebuilt at Kennington.

However, these are the brief details of the ‘new organ’ for St John’s, Cambridge on the H&H website:

New organ; 4 manuals, 67 stops.

The organ will incorporate 43 stops from the organ built by Henry Willis in 1889 for Hampstead Conservatoire and moved to St Peter’s Church Brighton in 1910.  This valuable pipework survived subsequent alterations and will be restored to authentic musical speech; the pitch, changed in 1956, will be meticulously stabilised at A=440.

[A G Preston]

Hello Rowland, I was indeed referring to the former St John's organ heading to Kennington.  Does anyone know?

[John Furse]

As Rowland writes, H&H state it will have 67 stops: 24 more than in its Brighton incarnation. This is an increase of more than half the existing number of stops.

Currently, Swell and Solo are enclosed.

I’ll leave it to others to suggest what this enlargement might include.

[A G Preston]

Is the route by which the former St John's organ will end up in Kennington to remain a mystery then?

[John Furse]

9 hours ago, A G Preston said:

Is the route by which the former St John's organ will end up in Kennington to remain a mystery then?

The M11 ?

[SomeChap]

I'm a bit confused by this!  I was under the impression that what everyone didn't like about the old Mander was that it was too big, and essentially muffled itself in the cramped chamber.  But this new proposal is four stops bigger!

[P DeVile]

2 hours ago, SomeChap said:

I'm a bit confused by this!  I was under the impression that what everyone didn't like about the old Mander was that it was too big, and essentially muffled itself in the cramped chamber.  But this new proposal is four stops bigger!

It is pretty much the same size as the previous instrument but laid out very differently - the Mander has all the manual action soundboards in the west case with the pedals in the east. The old organ was laid out across the two bays - all manual action soundboards being directly behind the cases with pedal chests behind, so the sound got into the chapel much better

[SomeChap]

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. (I wish this forum had likes / reations, rather than having to put up a whole post just to say thank you!)

[A G Preston]

11 hours ago, John Furse said:

The M11 ?

Very droll.

[John Furse]

13 hours ago, A G Preston said:

Very droll.

I'll accept the accolade with grateful thanks. (Sorry: I couldn't resist !)

But, seriously, I seem to have missed spotting which builder will be doing the work on the old St John's instrument and then installing it in Kennington. Perhaps it is not in the public domain, as yet.

In any case, it will probably have to head West or North, before journeying to Cobbett's Great Wen.

I'm still most interested to discover whether the 1955 Trompeta Real will be retained in Cambridge - re Tippett's Magnificat.

[Rowland Wateridge]

3 hours ago, John Furse said:

…  …  I seem to have missed spotting which builder will be doing the work on the old St John's instrument and then installing it in Kennington. Perhaps it is not in the public domain, as yet.

I think your assumption is correct.   The latest information I have found on the Church website (incidentally a very impressive one) indicated as recently as last month “In 2025 we will be installing a four-manual pipe organ, currently in use in St John’s College Chapel, Cambridge, and are amid a major fundraising campaign to pay for the organ’s renovation and installation.”

[P DeVile]

7 hours ago, John Furse said:

I'm still most interested to discover whether the 1955 Trompeta Real will be retained in Cambridge - re Tippett's Magnificat.

The Trompeta is being kept