Worcester Cathedral.

[undamaris]

Awful images of the damage to the roof of the North Choir Aisle at Worcester Cathedral due to Storm Arwen. One image shows damage close to the North Choir organ case - does anyone know yet if any damage was done to the organ?

[Guest]

I don't know for sure but it looks to me like the damage was well below and to one side of the organ. I can't see how masonry falling onto the side-aisle roof could affect the organ case.

[Rowland Wateridge]

I am certain that the Tickell organ on both sides of the quire internally occupies the triforium and consequently at least part of the aisle roofspace behind it, with the clerestory windows wholly above.   From the photographs, it seems that the fallen pinnacle has extensively damaged the outer roof and internal stone vault of the aisle in the first bay of the quire on the north side.  The organ is wholly within the second bay, and I suspect that it would have suffered significantly if this damage had occurred only a matter of feet further east.  It’s by no means uncertain that necessary repairs to the roof and vault so close to the organ might have some impact.  Doubtless we can expect further information about this from Worcester.
 

The second photograph here, courtesy of the BBC shows the internal damage and the near proximity of the pipes in the north case.  You can get an idea of the respective positions internally and externally from the situation of the apex of the aisle window which is the same one at the left in both photographs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-59463928

 

 

[Choir Man]

As Rowland has already said the damage is in the bay immediately next to the north organ case which contains great, choir & solo divisions. Even if there is no direct damage to the organ, it is likely that any equipment outside of the case (e.g. blowing plant, wind trunking & electrics) could be affected.

I would also imagine that, until the damaged vault has been assessed and stabilised, engineers will probably ask for the organ to remain silent for fear of vibration making the damage worse. 

[Rowland Wateridge]

The Cathedral website indicates that services and visiting have resumed, but confined to the nave and cloister only.  Certainly for the time being there is no question of the Tickell organ being playable.

Very close examination of the photographs shows how close to the organ the damage has been.  The external photograph shows a small-bore copper pipe (no idea what this might have been) passing from the first bay into the second now severed.  

[hackjo]

Sad news but in some ways it is fortunate that the damage wasn't worse.

As for the organ, it seems to have been slightly ill fated since it was built with the ventilation system not being fit for purpose, some serious electrical problems as I understand and now being out of action due to this incident. 

I wonder if they will ever get the Transept in action, let alone the much talked about West end instrument?

[DaveHarries]

"The organ was not damaged during the incident, however we must safeguard and clean the instrument during the period of ongoing work, so we are disappointed to report that it too will be out of action for some time. We will continue to use our electric organ in the meantime." (Cathedral website)

Pity to learn that the very fine Tickell will not be in use this Christmas but it is good to know that the situation is much better than it could have been.

Dave

[Martin Cooke]

On 19/12/2021 at 21:59, DaveHarries said:

"The organ was not damaged during the incident, however we must safeguard and clean the instrument during the period of ongoing work, so we are disappointed to report that it too will be out of action for some time. We will continue to use our electric organ in the meantime." (Cathedral website)

Pity to learn that the very fine Tickell will not be in use this Christmas but it is good to know that the situation is much better than it could have been.

Dave

The question seems to me to be... "IS it a very fine organ?" It has to be a matter of concern to the cathedral authorities that something so new and so important a part of the cathedral's entire operation should have proved to be out of action for a considerable period of time. Or is it actually a very fine organ which has been plagued by third party issues encroaching upon it and putting it out of action? Despite so many folk vilifying the digital organ world, it seems to me a mighty good thing that they have such an instrument installed there that they can fall back on. 

[ajsphead]

20 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

The question seems to me to be... "IS it a very fine organ?" It has to be a matter of concern to the cathedral authorities that something so new and so important a part of the cathedral's entire operation should have proved to be out of action for a considerable period of time. Or is it actually a very fine organ which has been plagued by third party issues encroaching upon it and putting it out of action? Despite so many folk vilifying the digital organ world, it seems to me a mighty good thing that they have such an instrument installed there that they can fall back on. 

Well, personal opinion I know but it's never done very much for me. I do think it has been the recipient of more than it's fair share of circumstances conspiring against it, but it's a well made modern organ.

[S_L]

2 hours ago, ajsphead said:

......................................  but it's a well made modern organ.

Being devil's advocate - how do you know?

[Martin Cooke]

Just stepping around S_L's question... I suppose I find myself wondering, when I think of the huge success of rebuilds over the years at, for example, St Paul's, and more recently at Canterbury and York, are these, 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' schemes as at Worcester and Manchester worthwhile and successful? (Stand by for Magdalen, Oxford.) I have absolutely NO knowledge of either of these new-ish instruments but I know that I have heard virtually nothing about them (apart from the problems at Worcester) since they were completed. OK, the musical status of Manchester cathedral isn't, maybe, on the same level at York and Canterbury, but they do have a brand new organ, so you would think some news of it would leak out! 

[ajsphead]

5 hours ago, S_L said:

Being devil's advocate - how do you know?

By looking at it.

[S_L]

6 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

OK, the musical status of Manchester cathedral isn't, maybe, on the same level at York and Canterbury, but they do have a brand new organ, so you would think some news of it would leak out! 

I heard something a couple of months ago about Manchester but, whether it was reliable, I don't know which is why I wouldn't repeat it publicly here.

[S_L]

1 hour ago, ajsphead said:

By looking at it.

Fair enough!!!

[Martin Cooke]

5 hours ago, S_L said:

I heard something a couple of months ago about Manchester but, whether it was reliable, I don't know which is why I wouldn't repeat it publicly here.

Well... ditto!

[Choir Man]

Nicolson's have some photos of the work on their "smaller projects" page: http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/pf/smaller-projects-2022/

It looks like the organ has escaped significant physical damage, however it looks like all the pipework has been removed from the north side for cleaning. I wonder if they are taking the opportunity to fix the other problems that have been mentioned?

[DaveHarries]

2 hours ago, Choir Man said:

Nicolson's have some photos of the work on their "smaller projects" page: http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/pf/smaller-projects-2022/

It looks like the organ has escaped significant physical damage, however it looks like all the pipework has been removed from the north side for cleaning. I wonder if they are taking the opportunity to fix the other problems that have been mentioned?

Some of the pipework appears to have been damaged too going by the last few photos. I wasn't aware of any other problems though.

Dave

[Contrabombarde]

Dunno, looks to me like the bent metal is just a brace for the mitre.

Is the previous photo the famous  Hope Jones Viol de gamba that was so thin, the pipes had to be boxed in by a wooden frame?

[img]http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/WhatsApp-Image-2022-02-15-at-14.53.57.jpg[/img]

[pwhodges]

1 hour ago, Contrabombarde said:

Dunno, looks to me like the bent metal is just a brace for the mitre.

Agreed - but one of those pipes has a sharper bend at the mitre, and the support piece has a bulge visible as a result, so I suspect that one pipe is a bit out of sorts.

Paul

[Choir Man]

For those that haven't heard the news already, the organ is back and working again. James Lancelot is to give a gala recital this coming Saturday.

 

[Peter Allison]

On 16/01/2023 at 14:55, Choir Man said:

For those that haven't heard the news already, the organ is back and working again. James Lancelot is to give a gala recital this coming Saturday.

 

JBL is one of the UK's most  underrated organists, if he had not been in various church/cathedral DOM posts, he would  (in my opinion) have been one of the UK's finest freelance organists

[Rowland Wateridge]

I wouldn’t say that James Lancelot is underrated at all as an organist.  It has been his choice to make his career within the Church from the beginning, a son of the clergy, and, as you know, he is himself a Lay Canon of Durham where he preached from the pulpit as well as maintaining the highest musical standards both as organist and choir director.  I noticed on my last visit to Durham that James, and not the Precentor, was deciding when the musical parts of the service should resume after the readings and prayers, all of which he was following in his own prayer book.  One of our very finest Cathedral musicians and accomplished players, whilst refreshingly modest and friendly.  From his Winchester bachelor days I remember his saying that Sylvia came to audition him as a choral accompanist!  The rest, as they say, is history!

[Peter Allison]

underrated was prob the wrong turn of phrase ( I knew what I meant😁)

Both him and Sylvia were very good friends with my late father, and shared meals at  each others houses many times. ( I remember giving him my speakers when I upgraded them)

[Choir Man]

I met James Lancelot at Worcester a few years ago when he was the interim DOM there. At evensong there was some lovely psalm singing from the choir which also tackled "I Was Glad", it being Parry's birthday, despite there being only 8 boys available (4 each side).

During the final hymn he retired to the organ loft to play the voluntary. I wonder how many other cathedral DOMs do this?

[Rowland Wateridge]

1 hour ago, Choir Man said:

During the final hymn he retired to the organ loft to play the voluntary. I wonder how many other cathedral DOMs do this?

Martin Neary normally did at Winchester, and did so on the occasion of a later visit to Westminster Abbey, but I would not know whether that was usually the case there.  This is, however, going back quite a few years …