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Memorial Service for HM the Queen in St Paul’s Cathedral


Rowland Wateridge

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I only saw part of yesterday’s memorial service and it would be good to have the views of other Board members.  

I thought the singing by the St Paul’s choir and the organ accompaniments were superlative, and congratulations to Andrew Carwood and the respective organists.  Unfortunately, the BBC felt it necessary, although with some justification, to explain in detail what was happening, at times even talking over the sung parts of the service.  The congregation was clearly of very mixed musical knowledge and abilities, and noticeable that a significant number did not know, or were unable to sing, the words of the National Anthem.  Possibly the highlight, of what I personally experienced, was Stanford’s Nunc Dimittis in G, beautifully sung and accompanied.   The service closed with GT-B’s ‘Elegy’ but, regrettably, talked-over, and even faded out by the BBC.

 

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Having anticipated the BBC intrusive commentary, I found that the service appeared uninterrupted and without commentary on both Sky News and CNN. I have found these to be excellent alternatives in the past and will certainly look into these options for the funeral.

I enjoyed the music, with the exception of the bagpipes. Were the lower parts of the choir just a bit overbearing? Perhaps it was just my personal impression. I thought the congregation was very attentive; they had all made an effort to be there, so the occasion had significance for them all.

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52 minutes ago, DRL said:

Having anticipated the BBC intrusive commentary, I found that the service appeared uninterrupted and without commentary on both Sky News and CNN. I have found these to be excellent alternatives in the past and will certainly look into these options for the funeral.

 

A version without commentary was also available on the BBC Red Button, so it may not have been necessary to look elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, DRL said:

I enjoyed the music, with the exception of the bagpipes.

I have been fending off wholesale criticism of the service music by someone on another blog, the bagpipes being the only item which met with their approval!  

1 hour ago, DRL said:

I thought the congregation was very attentive; they had all made an effort to be there, so the occasion had significance for them all.

I hope I wasn’t unkind about the congregation, and it’s good that your impression was different.

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6 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:

 The congregation was clearly of very mixed musical knowledge and abilities ...

Surely that must always be the case?  When we go to church, even though the building might be a cathedral, surely the main reason for being there has little or nothing to do with the music?  So I really cannot see the relevance of your remark!  For what it's worth my opinion was rather different, in that I was moved by the rapt attention that the congregation paid to what was going on, music and all.  The expressions on their faces, as the camera panned gently across them, said all that was necessary - to me at least.

I do however agree with you about the intrusiveness of BBC commentaries, not only on this solemn occasion but on almost every other outside broadcast such as Wimbledon (to take a random example).  They seem to have no sense of occasion at all, given that they think the sound of some commentator or other continually droning on adds something to the proceedings.  It is a blessing that today's alternative video feeds give one the option to do without it.

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Oh dear, I really didn’t want to introduce a contentious element, especially at the present time, but any statement, however well-intentioned, made in 2022 seems to result in contradiction and admonition.  I would have welcomed some constructive discussion of the music and the general character of the liturgy.  I only caught the tail end of the service.  

I’m now 81 and remember a time when everyone would have known and sung the National Anthem on such an occasion.  I think it is valid to reflect and comment on that change, and the reasons for it.

Had I known, I would have opted out of the BBC commentary. 

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I thought the service was 'spot on'. And surely Herbert Howells would have been thrilled to have no fewer than FOUR of his compositions included - Saraband, Psalm Prelude Set 1 No 2, All my hope and Behold, O God. It's hard not to be awestruck in St Paul's by the magnificence of the singing, the organ and by the beauty and sheer scale of the building. The quiet, attentive and, I am sure, appreciative atmosphere amongst the congregation at large was in marked contrast to one London official who talked to his senior politician neighbour throughout the organ music before the service in their seats in the quire - picked up by the commentary in The Times today... 'a chatty corner.' Another senior politician was, meanwhile, engaged on her mobile phone during this time, but at least she was silent! William Harris's Bring us  was appropriate not just because of the words (by John Donne, sometime Dean of St Paul's), but through the St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle connection with Harris, and the fact that he had been personal music tutor to both the Queen and Princess Margaret. All in all, I thought the whole music team at St Paul's, led by Andrew Carwood, was outstanding.

Anna Lapwood tweeted last night 'to TV people' to remember to acknowledge the organist, who, of course, was Will Fox, Acting Organist, for whom this was the second special televised service for Her Majesty in a few weeks. Let's not forget, too, that the choir term hadn't really begun. The choristers were not due to sing their first service of the term until tomorrow! This has subsequently changed and it looks as though they are having the weekend off - well-deserved! She also complained about the BBC commentary over the Thalben-Ball. 

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I thought the service at St. Paul's was excellent from start to finish, especially when you consider that there had not been a great deal of time to put it all together. My parents and I watched it on TV and we all enjoyed the music despite the sadness of the occasion. Will Fox, the organist, was indeed excellent.

Although the choir's term hadn't begun it is also worth noting that one of the clergy present isn't due to take up his duties for another week or two: I refer to Very Rev. Andrew Termlett, until recently Dean of Durham and now Dean-Designate of St. Paul's, who gave the welcome and also prayers later in the service: I believe he is being installed at the end of this month. I think the choir have certainly earned their weekend off considering the amount of rehearsing that will have taken place.

Dave

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Thank you, Martin.  This was the kind of comment I hoped to see!  Due to my late start, I missed the Howells and the Harris.  I expected the latter to be included, not necessarily due to the Windsor connection although that is an obvious one.  One of the musical experiences of my life was a service at St George’s Chapel, Windsor more than 60 years ago and the playing of Sir William Harris on that occasion.  And the canticles were by Stanford, although I no longer remember which one.

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Actually, for me, there was one aspect of the service which did disappoint, and that was the version of the Bible used for the readings. But that, sadly, seems to be the same everywhere - familiar words that many of us have known all our lives have been cast aside for ugly new texts that just grate and have no ring of beauty to them whatsoever. It's the same with the texts for the Eucharist. At a service recently, an officiant ended the prayers with this introduction to the Lord's Prayer... 'And we draw all our prayers together in the great familiar words of the Lord's Prayer... Our Father in Heaven...! And of course, they are not familiar in the version that begins thus! And I would defy any church go-er to be able to recite the Lord's Prayer in this modern version by memory. Anyway, rant over! I really do believe that the CofE has been mistaken in just about throwing out the BCP and the King James' Bible. 

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Fortunately not everywhere, Martin.  I have officially retired from playing, but up to and including my final services at two churches, we used the Authorised Version and BCP for every service of Matins and Evensong, and they still do. In these country churches a service of Communion only monthly (something which horrifies people who have adopted the Eucharist, usually if not invariably in a ‘modern form’, as their ‘main’ service every Sunday), in one church we continued with BCP and the AV, the other church using the modern forms.  

It may be that the BCP and AV are retained more in rural churches where the urge for change is less prevalent.  The sad corollary, however, is that Matins and Evensong, and their traditional language, are largely unknown to many churchgoers in places where the Family Eucharist has supplanted both.

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That's right, Rowland - such a pity... and so misguided, in my view. As you say, it's not just the loss of the AV and the BCP, but the blinkered adoption of the Eucharist as the main service. I simply don't understand how this came to pass. Surely we all grew up with a Sung Eucharist on the 1st and 5th Sundays and Matins on the others. (And the term 'Holy Communion' seems to have been dropped also. I realise I am speaking very personally, but it is very much my opinion that this uncompromising use of Eucharistic services is hugely off-putting to people. I find this especially on Christmas Day when, having had a Midnight Communion, and then probably an 8.00am services, the 'main' morning service ends up as a Communion. Every year, one-timers pop in in family groups and what they need is to sing some carols and hear the familiar words of some of the readings from the AV. 'And there were in the same country, shepherds...' 'And there shall come forth a rod...' 'The people that walked in darkness...' and all the rest, not some awful re-telling in ghastly pseudo politically-correct language that nobody recognises and has no chance of being remembered or recalled. We had it this morning in the otherwise very lovely service from Westminster Abbey. Fabulous singing... familiar texts to the psalm and the Benedictus, but then an adaptation of the words 'we all know' from I Corinthians 15 - 'Behold, I tell you a mystery.' But, of course, this was changed to 'Listen, I tell you a mystery.' Do the people who initiate changes like this think we are not capable to understanding what the word, 'Behold' might mean? It is all so demeaning and lacking in quality and dignity. It just makes me feel sad, I'm afraid.

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55 minutes ago, Martin Cooke said:

That's right, Rowland - such a pity... and so misguided, in my view. As you say, it's not just the loss of the AV and the BCP, but the blinkered adoption of the Eucharist as the main service. I simply don't understand how this came to pass. Surely we all grew up with a Sung Eucharist on the 1st and 5th Sundays and Matins on the others. (And the term 'Holy Communion' seems to have been dropped also. I realise I am speaking very personally, but it is very much my opinion that this uncompromising use of Eucharistic services is hugely off-putting to people. I find this especially on Christmas Day when, having had a Midnight Communion, and then probably an 8.00am services, the 'main' morning service ends up as a Communion. Every year, one-timers pop in in family groups and what they need is to sing some carols and hear the familiar words of some of the readings from the AV. 'And there were in the same country, shepherds...' 'And there shall come forth a rod...' 'The people that walked in darkness...' and all the rest, not some awful re-telling in ghastly pseudo politically-correct language that nobody recognises and has no chance of being remembered or recalled. We had it this morning in the otherwise very lovely service from Westminster Abbey. Fabulous singing... familiar texts to the psalm and the Benedictus, but then an adaptation of the words 'we all know' from I Corinthians 15 - 'Behold, I tell you a mystery.' But, of course, this was changed to 'Listen, I tell you a mystery.' Do the people who initiate changes like this think we are not capable to understanding what the word, 'Behold' might mean? It is all so demeaning and lacking in quality and dignity. It just makes me feel sad, I'm afraid.

What we “all grew up with” is, to a degree, insignificant. That you are sad is a shame. Before the Reformation the Mass was celebrated daily and the Office was essentially monastic and for the devotions of the clergy. The language of worship had been exclusively in Latin (with the occasional phrase of Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew). Cranmer and his fellow reformers substituted a modern-language version of the liturgy and the scriptures with an emphasis on the Office, refashioned into a twice-daily worship with the Psalter being read every month rather than the 7-times-a-day worship with a weekly recitation of the Psalms. The BCP provides that confirmed members of the church should receive communion at least three times a year. Nowadays there is a wide range of theological, liturgical and ecclesiological opinion on the form that public worship should take and it would be surprising if we all thought the same. God in her infinite wisdom has appointed Bishops, Priests and Laity to positions of authority in the Church of England which has resulted in the broad menu of liturgy available throughout the year and on special occasions. But, and I realise I am not practising what I preach, I feel that this forum isn't really the place for airing our personal feelings about matters that are hardly core to our enjoyment of the pipe organ and its world in sacred and secular music.

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Well, I don’t think you have said anything that Martin and I do not already know.  It’s most certainly not the first time that the subject has been discussed on the Board.  Far from being ‘insignificant’ what ‘we’ grew up with has shaped the faith of very many people.  I accept there is room for both traditional and modern liturgies.  The subject is relevant to clergy, laity and musicians alike, particularly organists, and so in no way inappropriate on the Mander Board although, I accept, not directly the specific subject of the Memorial Service.

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One of the characteristics of Queen Elizabeth II was that she kept in touch with changes in the society over which she ruled.  In many aspects of this we may never know her personal view of changes such as those in the liturgy, but she clearly accepted that such changes happen.  I would even suggest that using the more modern words helped make the service more accessible to those many of her subjects who are not so familiar with the older words.

Paul

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I, too, was disappointed by what seemed like constant voice-over by the BBC. It happens also in BBC radio interviews where the interviewer deems him or herself more important by constantly interrupting their knowledgeable interviewee. But back to St Paul’s where I thought the boy choristers in particular, undoubtedly some of them newcomers, performed admirably. Cawood must take credit here, but oh I wish he would not conduct like a windmill. I was also looking forward to the organ voluntary, but alas the BBC was again a killjoy.

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Beautiful singing at Westminster Hall on Wednesday. I loved James O'Donnell's chant for Psalm 139 which I believe was based on what we used to call the Kiev Melody. I must listen to it again. And how apt were the words of the Bairstow. And, dare I say, how lovely to hear BCP and KJV words for the prayers and lesson. [And I do take the point made earlier about keeping up with the words and how Her Majesty embraced change throughout her life. And I accede that different occasions suit different translations of these texts... but for me, much is lost, Sunday by Sunday, at regular worship through the use of so called modern texts... and we all adopted plastic many years ago to keep up with the times, and where did that get us!]

Moving on... what organ music have we heard on broadcasts recently? St Paul's has been covered. I heard the Bridge Adagio at the start of the Belfast service and the opening of the JSB E flat Prelude at the end. I don't remember hearing any of the organ music either side of the St Giles' service but it is listed here. Standing by for Llandaff!

For the nonce, we are using the CofE's special Communion at a time of mourning on Sunday. I'm playing Solemn Melody, Prelude on an Irish Church Melody (Stanford), the lovely Prelude on David of the White Rock (George Towers), Coming through the Rye (Chris Tambing), Adagio in E (Bridge) and Waft her, angels, through the skies (Handel) before the service. At Communion, after the motet, it will be 'Touch her soft lips' (Walton) and Prelude on 'Strength and Stay' (June Nixon). At the end, after the National Anthem it's to be the Prelude in E minor, BWV 548 (JSB).

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5 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

Beautiful singing at Westminster Hall on Wednesday. I loved James O'Donnell's chant for Psalm 139 which I believe was based on what we used to call the Kiev Melody. I must listen to it again. And how apt were the words of the Bairstow. And, dare I say, how lovely to hear BCP and KJV words for the prayers and lesson.

I was amused that a writer in the Times praised the beauty of the words of the psalm, but attributed them to the Authorised Version. The writer didn’t  realise that for the 1662 book, whilst biblical texts in general were altered to the A.V. (being the most recent translation), the option of updating the psalms was rejected, specifically on aesthetic grounds, and the old Coverdale (more or less) psalter was retained because it was better for singing … which is more or less the point you were making.

Nothing changes, does it?

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/09/2022 at 15:05, Rowland Wateridge said:

Well, I don’t think you have said anything that Martin and I do not already know.  It’s most certainly not the first time that the subject has been discussed on the Board.  Far from being ‘insignificant’ what ‘we’ grew up with has shaped the faith of very many people.  I accept there is room for both traditional and modern liturgies.  The subject is relevant to clergy, laity and musicians alike, particularly organists, and so in no way inappropriate on the Mander Board although, I accept, not directly the specific subject of the Memorial Service.

As so often seems to be the case, I'm again steaming somewhat astern of the fleet and responding a month after the topicality of the thread has passed but I feel moved to support Rowland in his position.

Those, like me in their mid-eighties, very much have their faith shaped by "what we grew up with" which, of course was the BCP and the KJ version and I for one, have never considered the need for anything other. The liturgy and words of many of the hymns for centuries were inculcated in schools, military church parades and so forth to become a staple of the social fabric. What the reformers and those seeking "accessibility" (whatever that might be) fail to acknowledge, is that an essential component of faith is the continuity of the known and the familiar - profound and essential comfort is derived from these, particularly in times of social flux as we now have. Sadly, this essence not always is understood and in recent years, I have crossed swords with several incumbents invariably holding diplomas in something; long gone are the days (in my experience) when orders of service and musical accompaniment could be discussed with Oxbridge MAs able to quote Aeschylus in the original and expert in the workings of Walschaert's valve gear.

But perhaps grumpiness increases in direct proportion to one's age . . . .

Robert Hope-Jones and his relationship with Ernest Skinner is much more interesting, don't you think?🙄

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