Major new organ in Sydney

[peter ellis]

St. James', King Street in the heart of Sydney is installing a new instrument. It has been quite the project for the parish, particularly as the factory burned down during the construction phase.

Organ Project Gallery – St. James – King Street (sjks.org.au)

 

I'm no longer attached to the parish so it would be wrong of me to speak for the project. Have a look at the gallery and visit the FB page. Many of us can't wait to see it, hear it and play it.  

[innate]

1 hour ago, peter ellis said:

St. James', King Street in the heart of Sydney is installing a new instrument. It has been quite the project for the parish, particularly as the factory burned down during the construction phase.

Here’s the spec on the Dobson site:

http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instruments/op99_sydney.html

Even though the church has made much of the Dobson instrument in Merton College, Oxford providing the basis of choosing Dobson to build their new instrument (and full marks to the church for having the vision and the commitment to see this project through) the design and concept of the two organs could hardly be more different. The two digital 32' flues are a shame, in my opinion—yes, no one has to use them but they’ll sit there saying “Go on, you know you want to!”

[peter ellis]

The church has the size to accomodate the sound of 32’ pipes but not the physical space for multiple ranks. So - why not digital. 

[innate]

3 hours ago, peter ellis said:

The church has the size to accomodate the sound of 32’ pipes but not the physical space for multiple ranks. So - why not digital. 

Because real organs have pipes.

[Colin Pykett]

18 hours ago, peter ellis said:

The church has the size to accomodate the sound of 32’ pipes but not the physical space for multiple ranks. So - why not digital. 

Some might think that a valid reason for 'why not digital' is that 32 ft electronic stops in large buildings are hard on the loudspeakers, which not infrequently fail.  This potential danger afflicts all bass speakers which get hammered hard, as pop band roadies know to their cost, and it also happened at Southwell Minster.  Another digital organ firm, not Copeman Hart (the original installer), was called in to replace the speaker units.

But the above also shows that, if Dobson are deemed to have sinned at Sydney, they certainly weren't the only ones to have given in to temptation ...

Seriously though, this story merely confirms that both pipes and electronics need servicing from time to time, especially after some years of hard service.  So perhaps another and equally valid point of view is that one should be thankful that the Southwell organ was not only repaired but fairly readily repairable.

[Contrabombarde]

On 26/02/2024 at 16:56, Colin Pykett said:

Seriously though, this story merely confirms that both pipes and electronics need servicing from time to time, especially after some years of hard service.  So perhaps another and equally valid point of view is that one should be thankful that the Southwell organ was not only repaired but fairly readily repairable.

I recently played the organ of St Philip's Cathedral which has a very elderly 32 foot electronic sub bass bottom octave. Overall I found it a quite lovely instrument, very easy to play and balance, but for the electronic 32 foot sub bass which has a dreadful racket coming from the speakers which are clearly defective. I did hear that repairs or restoration are due shortly which hopefully will attend to that; unfortunately there isn't space in the case for a proper 32 foot octave. How much floorspace would one or two pipes in that octave range take up compared to an industrial sized subwoofer, and would a polyphone have been possible I wonder?

An equally unfortunate and mildly amusing disaster happened to another almost brand new organ I visited recently (I hasten to add I wasn't playing at the time!) The new Skrabl at Our Lady of Victories, which I must say I was thoroughly impressed by, has a 32 foot electronic Soubasse. At least, it did. It also has a very elegant semicircular amphitheatre, Cavaille-Coll inspired tiered console. That's fine, except that when swinging onto the organ bench one's knee passes perilously close to the protruding stop closest to the lowest keycheek. And not infrequently it gets clipped and the stopknob goes flying. On the positive for pipe purists, the stop that tends to go walkabouts just happens to be the organ's digital 32 foot bass stop, which one could potentially argue shouldn't have been there in the first place. Maybe not such a loss after all then, and it would have been easily remedied with a thin protective sheet of plywood under the stops!

On a more serious note though, it does raise the important issue of console ergonomics. Even the finest organ builders sometimes seem to inadvertently make design flaws like putting drawstops in odd places, or pistons on the lowest keyboard that are prone to being smashed by one's knees. I suppose I can't grumble - when I built my four manual Hauptwerk console I must have measured the dimensions of around 20 different four manual consoles before I cut a piece of wood, and designed it to fit my relatively short arms and legs perfectly. The keyboards are slightly closer together in both height and depth than RCO standards, and just a quarter of an inch per keyboard makes reaching the Solo a no greater stretch than reaching the Swell on some three manuals that I play. I just wish I'd tried harder to ensure I could reach all the toe pistons, as I only realised I couldn't when I put it all together and sat at it for the first time!

[Colin Pykett]

Subwoofer (bass) loudspeaker units can fail over time in several ways.  If the cone is supported by a foam or synthetic rubber surround this will have a high probability of disintegrating over some years owing to reactions with moisture and atmospheric gases.   Or the moving coil (motor) unit simply burns out if the speaker is working close to or beyond its design power limit - some of these big speakers can get too hot to touch after a spell of long sustained 32 foot pedal notes.  The solution here is to over-specify the speaker in terms of its power rating at the design stage, but of course this adds to the cost.  Or the sheer amount of movement which the motor and cone execute eventually weakens or damages the suspension.  Or the cone gets eaten by rodents - instead of just leaving them exposed I often wonder why designers don't cover the speaker apertures with the type of substantial metal grilles which are readily available and made for the job.  These are mainly intended to protect the cones from physical damage when the boxes are being carted around by pop bands, but they are also helpful in an anti-rodent role.  Similar grilles should be considered for apertures into enclosures such as reflex or tuned pipe cabinets.  Or the water vapour in the cold and damp air in churches can soak into the fibres of some cone materials and destroy their mechanical integrity over time so that they eventually become little different to flapping bits of damp cloth in terms of effectiveness.

And so on.  But the moral is that electronic basses won't necessarily last as long as one might expect, particularly in large buildings where they have to be beefy enough to radiate large amounts of acoustic power.

[peter ellis]

On 27/02/2024 at 02:50, innate said:

Because real organs have pipes.

This again!

[Damian Beasley-Suffolk]

Are 32' stops ever used alone? If not, and space rather than cost is the primary problem, and you simply have to have something at 16Hz, what is the objection to quinting? For the first time, I think, I recently played an organ with a 32' acoustic bass (louder 16 + softer 16 wired as a quint), and it sounded fine underneath the rest of the chorus - I am aware that some people don't hear such effects, although I do. I imagine that it works better in larger or more acoustically live volumes. I've occasionally played a Compton Polyphone which was also fine, and an example of which was recently made by a British builder. And of course you can put them anywhere. I don't know the relative costs of pipe v digital in this case, and I don't think it really works for reeds, but a stop knob and a few minutes fiddling with a transmission system can't cost that much.

[John Robinson]

5 hours ago, Damian Beasley-Suffolk said:

Are 32' stops ever used alone? If not, and space rather than cost is the primary problem, and you simply have to have something at 16Hz, what is the objection to quinting? For the first time, I think, I recently played an organ with a 32' acoustic bass (louder 16 + softer 16 wired as a quint), and it sounded fine underneath the rest of the chorus - I am aware that some people don't hear such effects, although I do. I imagine that it works better in larger or more acoustically live volumes. I've occasionally played a Compton Polyphone which was also fine, and an example of which was recently made by a British builder. And of course you can put them anywhere. I don't know the relative costs of pipe v digital in this case, and I don't think it really works for reeds, but a stop knob and a few minutes fiddling with a transmission system can't cost that much.

I agree.  I'd rather have a quinted 32' than an electronic substitute.

[Colin Pykett]

It would be nice to know if anyone who has posted their (armchair?) opinions above has actually played or even heard the Sydney instrument - I've posted, but only while comfortably seated half a world away.  Failing that, I'll risk seeding further dialogue by mentioning Haskells or helpers.

(Now heads back to armchair and waits ...)

[Rowland Wateridge]

All the media announcements I have seen refer to the organ ‘in course of installation’ so it’s unlikely that any UK Board members will have any direct experience of the instrument.  

However, there is to be a recital series commencing in July.  James O’Donnell is to give the inaugural recital on Friday 26th July at 7 pm:

https://events.humanitix.com/st-james-international-organ-festival-james-o-donnell

See also this event in the current month and a splendid view of the organ in situ:

https://events.humanitix.com/meet-the-organ-maker-an-interview-with-john-panning

[Choir Man]

The organ is installed and is now undergoing voicing: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=879352160653483&set=a.531050782150291&locale=en_GB

[Fiffaro]

On 01/03/2024 at 04:36, Damian Beasley-Suffolk said:

Are 32' stops ever used alone? If not, and space rather than cost is the primary problem, and you simply have to have something at 16Hz, what is the objection to quinting? For the first time, I think, I recently played an organ with a 32' acoustic bass (louder 16 + softer 16 wired as a quint), and it sounded fine underneath the rest of the chorus - I am aware that some people don't hear such effects, although I do.

Just a friendly reminder that with a 32' acoustic bass using two 16' pipes quinted there will not be any sound at 16 Hz, but at 32 Hz and 49 Hz plus any higher harmonics from these two pipes. Nothing at 16 Hz. Our brain extrapolates because it is hearing what would be the 2nd and 3rd harmonics of a pipe sounding at 16 Hz. I'm one who finds the synthetic quinting approach not particularly convincing so I choose not to use it when registering. YMWV.

So if you want some 16 Hz sound, you either pay for a 32' rank or go the digital route.

[Damian Beasley-Suffolk]

Yup, 32' acoustic basses discussed at (half) length in these pages by people with varying degrees, often conferred by universities, of great knowledge and experience in these matters.

[Choir Man]

The organ is now in use for services as can be seen in this weekend's live-stream. There's a good shot of the organist 'in-action' at the new console at the end of the service: https://www.facebook.com/stjameskingstreet/videos/861730599326606

The church's facebook page has photos of the installation: https://www.facebook.com/stjameskingstreet/photos_by

 

[Damian Beasley-Suffolk]

I have just browsed through the FB site of this organ. It looks wonderful, and although it seems quite large they have got a lot of organ in, as well as space to get around inside it with some interesting and very useful inspection and tuning hatches. One has a lot of sympathy with the 32' problem, as a couple of 16' ranks are already lying horizontally on the top of the two cases - where would any 32' ranks go without spoiling everything else? They chose their perfectly valid solution to match what appears to be a splendid instrument.