Old Consoles

[OmegaConsort]

Hope this topic is in the correct place - I am new to this....Over the years I have often wondered what happens to the old console when an organ is rebuilt - I know of some instances where the console has been preserved such as Marlborough Abbey in Wilts - I think the old console is stored in a room above the porch?

I assume they were broken up in the old days, but perhaps now, with more consideration of the past they are either kept somewhere on site or the builder keeps them (mind you, I notice lots of old drawstops for sale on eBay from time to time!). I was in Blackburn last week looking at the new 4-manual console and wondering what happened to the old one!

[Vox Humana]

Somtimes at least they are recycled. Last weekend I played an organ that had been rebuilt in 2000 and expanded from a two- to a three-manual. I was told that the "new" console had originally belonged to an instrument used at Westminster Abbey while the main organ was being rebuilt (this was around the early '50s). It must have been a Harrison & Harrison job because it subsequently fulfilled a similar function at St Albans, after which it went to the Isle of Wight where it was used for a three-manual H&H in a chap's farmhouse at Colwell Bay, Freshwater (and an interesting organ it was too - I knew it quite well - http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=A00922). It had certainly undergone a certain amount of alteration since I last saw it at Freshwater. In particular, the in-built ash tray has gone!

[OmegaConsort]

Somtimes at least they are recycled. Last weekend I played an organ that had been rebuilt in 200 and expanded from a two- to a three-manual. I was told that the "new" console had originally belonged to an instrument used at Westminster Abbey while the main organ was being rebuilt (this was around the early '50s). It must have been a Harrison & Harrison job because it subsequently fulfilled a similar function at St Albans, after which it went to the Isle of Wight where it was used for a three-manual H&H in a chap's farmhouse at Colwell Bay, Freshwater (and an interesting organ it was too - I knew it quite well - http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=A00922). It had certainly undergone a certain amount of alteration since I last saw it at Freshwater. In particular, the in-built ash tray has gone!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excellent! Particularly the ashtray bit! I wonder what will happen to the current temporary console at the Abbey??

Does anyone know what happened to the old St Paul's console - the one buried in the North case - a particularly fine piece of woodwork that was!

[AJJ]

Somtimes at least they are recycled. Last weekend I played an organ that had been rebuilt in 200 and expanded from a two- to a three-manual. I was told that the "new" console had originally belonged to an instrument used at Westminster Abbey while the main organ was being rebuilt (this was around the early '50s). It must have been a Harrison & Harrison job because it subsequently fulfilled a similar function at St Albans, after which it went to the Isle of Wight where it was used for a three-manual H&H in a chap's farmhouse at Colwell Bay, Freshwater (and an interesting organ it was too - I knew it quite well - http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=A00922). It had certainly undergone a certain amount of alteration since I last saw it at Freshwater. In particular, the in-built ash tray has gone!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd be interested to know where this is now. Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to remember something about the Chamade ending up at Crewkerne PC - on the rear wall - but this might be completely wrong! Sometime I'll pop down and have a look.

 

AJJ

[AJJ]

I could be right after all!

 

http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D08090

 

AJJ

[Vox Humana]

Interesting about the chamade. That Crewkerne organ looks worth a visit.

 

The old Freshwater console now drives this machine: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=E00613. Although shown here as a two-manual, the console is a three-decker. The Choir manual currently plays only the Trumpet and Royal Trompette (with octave and suboctave couplers available). The Choir stop knobs are prepared for and the pipework is on site and waiting for a faculty to be granted for its installation (not in itself a problem, but the church included the organ in a faculty for a PA system and the latter is proving less straightforward). When complete it will be a remarkably comprehensive specification for a small village church - it almost reminds me of America!

[Colin Harvey]

Interesting about the chamade. That Crewkerne organ looks worth a visit.

 

The old Freshwater console now drives this machine: ...

 

...but the church included the organ in a faculty for a PA system and the latter is proving less straightforward). When complete it will be a remarkably comprehensive specification for a small village church - it almost reminds me of America!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a bizzare way of doing things. If the faculty is not granted on the basis of the PA system, no organ either and converse applies too. And the consideration for PA systems and organs are completely different, with only a few overarching principles in common.

 

I wonder why they did it that way?

 

Of course, if I were to buy a new organ for a church - probably the most expensive and largest bit of kit in the church, I'd of course find something fairly small and ephemeral to pass it through on - like a PA system - so the DAC Organ advisor misses it...

[OmegaConsort]

What a bizzare way of doing things. If the faculty is not granted on the basis of the PA system, no organ either and converse applies too.  And the consideration for PA systems and organs are completely different, with only a few overarching principles in common.

 

I wonder why they did it that way?

 

Of course, if I were to buy a new organ for a church - probably the most expensive and largest bit of kit in the church, I'd of course find something fairly small and ephemeral to pass it through on - like a PA system - so the DAC Organ advisor misses it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So.......back to old consoles(!).....Two more come to mind - Barnstaple Church in Devon was rebuilt not long ago with a detached console replacing an old Vowles of Bristol console - lovely old woodwork - two hands to draw a single stop. I think I remember reading that the old console has been retained behind part of the new casework - what a lovely idea!

The second is Christchurch Priory. When the old Willis Compton was mothballed and a Makin 4 manual installed in the late 70's / early 80's, the large 3 manual console completely disappeared. I wonder what happened to that??

 

Not wishing to digress, but what about builders' name plates that appear on consoles, and then vanish when the instrument is rebuilt? I won a HN&B nameplate on eBay recently - no idea where it came from, but it is brass and says "built 1947" on it.

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

I agree that it can be nice to see an old console. For many years one could get up close to the Willis (and pre Willis) console of The Milton at Tewkesbury Abbey. The Snetzler console at Rotherham Parish Church is still visible and quite fascinating, in its proper position en fenetre, but some pratt has defaced the front of that organ in a most insensitive manner! [indeed, this might even have been done at the instigation of the late George Pace - he messed up quite a bit of that church in his capacity as diocesan architect.]

 

There was certainly talk about saving and eventually exhibiting the recently superceded Walker five-manual console at Doncaster Minster (St.George's). So far I think this plan has got as far as a pile of parts being stored in a back-stage area.

 

Of course, attractive redundant consoles are getting reused all the time. I know too many to list here. However, I cannot resist the opportunity to boast about the one I have, viz. the five-manual Walker stop-key console from Tewkesbury Abbey. Old consoles in good condition are respected in the trade, not least for their ivory which continues to be regarded as the premier key-covering - even if second-hand.

 

We were asked about maker's plates. There must be a fair number of serious collectors, I know several; I think once an organ is no more, it is fair game for some serious enthusiast to keep the plate, particularly if they helped ensure that a redundant instrument did not end up in a skip. I have a friend who particularly collects those little tuners plaques! However, I very much object to organ builders removing prior builders' plates when they rebuild an organ and this happens much more often than it should*.

 

*Mind you, as with many things at a rebuild, often it is not the organ builders that are at fault but the customer.

[Tony Newnham]

Interesting about the chamade. That Crewkerne organ looks worth a visit.

 

The old Freshwater console now drives this machine: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=E00613. Although shown here as a two-manual, the console is a three-decker. The Choir manual currently plays only the Trumpet and Royal Trompette (with octave and suboctave couplers available). The Choir stop knobs are prepared for and the pipework is on site and waiting for a faculty to be granted for its installation (not in itself a problem, but the church included the organ in a faculty for a PA system and the latter is proving less straightforward). When complete it will be a remarkably comprehensive specification for a small village church - it almost reminds me of America!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi

 

Interesting - there was nothing about that in the source material (I know - I entered the original survey!). I wondered at the time what the surveyor meant by "Solo" against the Royal Trumpet! Perhaps you could send NPOR an e-mail with the correct information, and we can then get it right.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Guest Barry Oakley]

... However, I very much object to organ builders removing prior builders' plates when they rebuild an organ and this happens much more often than it should*.

 

*Mind you, as with many things at a rebuild, often it is not the organ builders that are at fault but the customer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Paul, You will have no doubt noticed that the present console plaque on the Hull City Hall organ gives the wrong impression, very boldly, that the organ was built by Rushworth & Dreaper, The names of Forster & Andrews and the John Compton Organ Company are represented as a small fraction of the R&D lettering. I think this is something John Pemberton should redress.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with what you say.

[pcnd5584]

I was in Blackburn last week looking at the new 4-manual console and wondering what happened to the old one!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that some of it was re-used - possibly the draw-stop heads, the key-cheeks (claviers unlikely, unless they found a second-hand JWWW clavier for the Solo Organ) and pedal-board (maybe).

 

The old FHW console of St. Patrick's, Dublin is placed on the floor of the North Transept - complete with spelling mistake on one of the Pedal reed stops.

 

I believe that the old FHW console of LIncoln Cathedral is stored somewhere in the triforium.

 

The old 'amphitheatre' console built by Cavaillé-Coll in 1868 for Nôtre-Dame, Paris, is on display in the museum on the north side of the cathedral. It looks rather the worse for wear, these days.

[AJJ]

''I believe that the old FHW console of LIncoln Cathedral is stored somewhere in the triforium.''

When we lived in Lincoln in the '80s it was on show in the Museum of Lincolnshire Life.

 

AJJ

[OmegaConsort]

I agree that it can be nice to see an old console. For many years one could get up close to the Willis (and pre Willis) console of The Milton at Tewkesbury Abbey.  The Snetzler console at Rotherham Parish Church is still visible and quite fascinating, in its proper position en fenetre, but some pratt has defaced the front of that organ in a most insensitive manner!  [indeed, this might even have been done at the instigation of the late George Pace - he messed up quite a bit of that church in his capacity as diocesan architect.]

 

There was certainly talk about saving and eventually exhibiting the recently superceded Walker five-manual console at Doncaster Minster (St.George's). So far I think this plan has got as far as a pile of parts being stored in a back-stage area.

 

Of course, attractive redundant consoles are getting reused all the time.  I know too many to list here.  However, I cannot resist the opportunity to boast about the one I have, viz. the five-manual Walker stop-key console from Tewkesbury Abbey. Old consoles in good condition are respected in the trade, not least for their ivory which continues to be regarded as the premier key-covering - even if second-hand.

 

We were asked about maker's plates. There must be a fair number of serious collectors, I know several;  I think once an organ is no more, it is fair game for some serious enthusiast to keep the plate, particularly if they helped ensure that a redundant instrument did not end up in a skip.  I have a friend who particularly collects those little tuners plaques!  However, I very much object to organ builders removing prior builders' plates when they rebuild an organ and this happens much more often than it should*.

 

*Mind you, as with many things at a rebuild, often it is not the organ builders that are at fault but the customer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What are you doing with the 5 manual Tewkesbury console if I may ask! I played that once - quite by chance I was wandering around the abbey and Michael Peterson was playing - he was a real gent and let me have a go.

I also remember the old FHW console on the Milton.

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

What are you doing with the 5 manual Tewkesbury console if I may ask! I played that once - quite by chance I was wandering around the abbey and Michael Peterson was playing - he was a real gent and let me have a go.

I also remember the old FHW console on the Milton.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I regret to have to tell you, if you haven't heard, Michael Peterson passed away quite recently. He came of very long-lived stock and had expected to go on for ever. He was a super guy. At least he didn't live to see one of his projects finally die off - Tewkesbury Abbey School is expected to close soon and with it the very fine 'cathedral-style' weekday choir.

 

Back to organs:

Since you ask, The 1948 Milton console will eventually control my home organ. This is currently in bits because of my recent move from darkest, leafiest Gloucestershire to flattest but thoroughly decent (and cheap) Holderness, but has been playable (or mostly so) for some while. The large spec features six manual divisions, so I think I can justify a five-manual console - and the three swell pedals, and the thirty-five toe pistons. There will be considerably more playing from this in its new home than when it stood in Tewkesbury! Completion date is some way off, not least because I have to commission a new solid state piston and coupler system - a fairly major expense. I'm determined to have some working pistons at last.

[AJJ]

I regret to have to tell you, if you haven't heard, Michael Peterson passed away quite recently.  He came of very long-lived stock and had expected to go on for ever.  He was a super guy.  At least he didn't live to see one of his projects finally die off -  Tewkesbury Abbey School is expected to close soon and with it the very fine 'cathedral-style' weekday choir.

 

Back to organs:

Since you ask, The 1948 Milton console will eventually control my home organ. This is currently in bits because of my recent move from darkest, leafiest Gloucestershire to flattest but thoroughly decent (and cheap) Holderness, but has been playable (or mostly so) for some while. The large spec features six manual divisions, so I think I can justify a five-manual console - and the three swell pedals, and the thirty-five toe pistons.  There will be considerably more playing from this in its new home than when it stood in Tewkesbury! Completion date is some way off, not least because I have to commission a new solid state piston and coupler system - a fairly major expense.  I'm determined to have some working pistons at last.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It would be interesting to see the spec. Paul - is it on line anywhere?

 

AJJ

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

It would be interesting to see the spec. Paul - is it on line anywhere?

 

AJJ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh dear. For a few brief moments my ego was struggling with common sense, but ego has won. Anyone easily bored by self-indulgence, skip this posting!

 

I'm going to paste in here what the organ more-or-less had on it when it last played in Gloucestershire. I should note for you, about four of the manual stops named here were not yet connected, this included the Solo Cornet de Violes and the Tuba (though both were more-or-less ready inside the organ). Only eight or so pedal stops were in - two Bourdon units, the Violone and Trombone (and one borrow from the manuals - the 16' Horn). I was waiting for my new console switching. No manual extension or borrowing. All straight ranks - mostly junk but sounded great fun. I even have a CD of it somewhere, thanks to a visit by the Organ Club a year or two back.

 

THE OLD GEORGE, DYMOCK specification of house organ - as revised 28.1.03

 

'Milton' Great enclosed (chest ex Walsall)

Lieblich Gedeckt 16 on unit chest, 1-12 ex Walsall Sw. remainder Nicholson Gedackt

Open Diapason 8 Walsall no.2 Open Diapason

Violoncello 8 from Violone unit

Cor de Nuit 8 existing Walsall Stopped Diapason

Claribel 8 existing Walsall

Principal 4 existing Walsall

Flute 4 existing Walsall 'Chimney Flute'

Twelfth 2.2/3 existing Walsall

Fifteenth 2 existing Walsall

Tierce 1.3/5 ex Walsall Choir (principal scale)

Mixture (15.19.22) III existing Walsall

Sharp Mixture (26.29) II misc. pipes on unit chest ex. Hucclecote

Trumpet 8 Tuffley Great Trumpet

i. Echo/Great ii. Solo/Great iii.Swell/Great iv. Choir/Great v.Tremulant (to Milton Great)

 

'Grove' Swell (chest ex Brynore plus 4-stop chest ex Woodmansterne Swell)

Lieblich Gedackt 8 existing

Salicional 8 ex Stroud Voix Celeste rescaled two pipes and slots removed

Vox Angelica TC 8 existing but voiced louder

Gemshorn 4 existing

Stopped Flute 4 on Woodmansterne chest

Piccolo 2 existing

Mixture (19.22.26) III Hill (etc.) from Woodmansterne on new chest (but labelled 'IV ranks 19.22.26.29')

Regal 16 ex Father Charles/Prinknash on Woodmansterne chest

Trumpet 8 ex Walsall Swell Trumpet (W.C.Jones)

Oboe 8 ex Bristol

Voix Humaine 8 from Trevor Tipple on Woodmansterne chest

Clarion 4 ex Walsall (W.C.Jones)

i. Echo/Swell ii. Solo/Swell iii. Swell Octave v. Swell Suboctave vi. Tremulant

 

'Milton' Choir Unenclosed (two 5-stop chests ex T.Tipple and M.Andrews)

Quintaton 16 1-12 borrowed from a Pedal unit rest ex Colwyn Bay

Flute a Cheminees 8 existing, now with Snetzler Treble

Salicional 8 Bristol Great Dulciana (much in case, rest on unit chest) 1-12 from Solo 16’ Viole

Geigen 4 Bristol Swell Dulciana (some pipes in case) others on TC slide

Nason 4 existing Spindleflote

Tierce 3.1/5 unit rank also providing Pedal 6.3/5 and 2.2/7

Nazard 2.2/3 existing

Flautino 2 existing 'Principal 2'

Tierce 1.3/5 existing (opened up slightly)

Larigot 1.1/3 ex Walsall Choir

Octavin 1 sundry bits

Orchestral Oboe 8 ex Michael Andrews (Binns)

Cremona T.C. 8 on small chest bass end - Walsall Clarinet (W.C.Jones)

Tuba 8 existing, on chest above Bourdon Trebles

Carillon from Mid C 8 (percussion) from Westminster Cathedral

i. Echo (in fact all Man.V)/Choir ii. Solo/Choir iii. Swell/Choir

iv. Tremulant

 

'Apse' Solo - manual V - Unenclosed (chest ex Dartford Swell, opposite main case, own blower)

Stopped Diapason 8 ex Walsall Swell and Craven Arms Methodist (Gray & Davison)

Spitzflote 8 mostly tapered, stopped 13-18, 1-12 shared with 8' flute

Principal 4 mostly tapered, some basses in case

Blockflute 2 ancient spitzflute pipes

Fifteenth 2 ex Longton

Fourniture (19.22.26) III miscellaneous, in place of reed, top board modified

Cornet (1.8.12.15.17) V (mid C) miscellaneous, on unit chest, treble end - by ventil

Orchestral Trumpet 8 mostly 'en chamade' on chests alongside main soundboard - ventil

other manual V couplers apply

 

 

'Grove' Solo (chest ex Walsall Swell)

Contra Viole 16 unit chest

Open Diapason 8 Tuffley Great Principal - wood basses from Dursley on unit chest

Harmonic Flute 8 1-12 stopped wood bass, remainder Tuffley Swell 4' transposed

Viol di Gamba 8 Walsall Choir Viole d'Orchestre

Voix Celeste TC 8 Dartford Viola with some rescaled trebles

Octave 4 Tuffley Swell Horn Diapason transposed

Flute Octaviante 4 12 stopped ex Burnham, remainder Witney (harmonic)

Mixture (15.19.22) III ex Brynore Great

Cornet de Violes (12.15) III miscellaneous (10.12.15 from mid C) small additional chest

Double Horn 16 ex Brynore on unit chest at front of box

Horn 8 Brynore Cornopean

Clarinet 8 ex Highbury Congregational Church

Clarion 4 ex Walsall Pedal Trumpet 4' with some Witney trebles

i. Echo to Solo ii. Solo Octave iii. Solo Suboctave iv.Tremulant

Tuba (unenclosed) 8 (duplexed from Choir for utility)

 

'Apse' Echo (chest ex Tewkesbury Swell)

Lieblich Flute 8 ex. Walsall Choir

Flute Celeste 8 ex. Radstock Swell 'Chimey Flute' (tuned sharp)

Dulciana 8 ex. Hazelmere Dulciana

Unda Maris TC 8 ex. Burnham Dulciana (tuned flat)

Dolcissimo 4 ex. Walsall Suabe Flute

Harmonic Aetheria II miscellaneous (actually 3 ranks, mostly 5.8.15)

Orchestral Oboe 8 Binns, Fitton and Haley, ex Michael Andrews

Octave Hautboy 4 Norman and Beard ex Peter Hindmarsh with flue trebles

i. Tremulant ii. Echo Octave iii. Echo Suboctave

 

'Milton' Pedal

Contra Violone 32 polyphone + Violone unit

Violone 16 existing

Bourdon 16 existing

Lieblich Bourdon 16 from Great unit

Bourdon Quint 10.2/3 from Great Lieblich Bourdon (enclosed)

Octave 8 from Violone unit

Major Flute 8 from Bourdon unit

Flute 8 from Great unit

Viole Sourdine* 8 from Solo Viole (16') unit (enclosed)

Bass Tierce 6.3/5 unit with Choir

Quint 5.1/3 from Violone unit

Superoctave 4 from Violone unit

Flute 4 from Bourdon unit

Violetta* 4 from Solo Viole unit

Septieme* 2.2/7 from Bass Tierce unit

Piccolo 2 from Bourdon unit

Rauschquint (19.22) II from Violone unit

Double Trombone* 32 from Trombone unit (16' resonators)

Bombarde* 16 from Tuba with extra bass octave sited by side of Solo

Trombone* 16 existing

Horn* 16 from Solo unit (enclosed)

Clarion* 8 from Trombone unit

Horn* 8 from Solo (16’) unit (enclosed)

Octave Clarion* 4 from Trombone unit

Cremona 4 from Choir unit

i. Echo/Pedal ii. Solo/Pedal iii. Swell/Pedal iv. Great/Pedal v. Choir/Pedal

vi. Great/Pedal Pistons off vii. Double Touch Canceller viii. Cymbelstern

* these stops rely on the large blower

 

 

Accessories

General Cancel piston 4 General pistons to whole organ (if possible will increase this to 8)

6 pistons to Choir, Great, Swell and Solo

4 Pistons each to Echo and Apse Solo, 6 toe pistons to Pedal, 6 Swell, 6 Solo, and 4 Generals

Reversibles: So/Gt, So/Oct, Sw/Gt, Sw/Oct, Sw/Sub, Sw.Trem, Gt.Ped, Sw/Ped, Pedal Trombone 16, Trombone 32,

Cornet V, Violone 32', Choir Cancel, Ch/Ped, Echo/Ped, Independent Pedal, and Tuba 4 balanced Swell pedals Manuals 61 notes, Pedals 32 notes adjustable bench Cymbelstern

blower switches for: 1. Great, Choir and Pedal flues 2. Main organ 3. Apse Solo

90 ranks - no manual extension

96/7 speaking stops 29 couplers etc. giving a total of 125 stopkeys

 

Mixture Compositions:

 

Great: Mixture III CC 15.19.22

c25 12.15.19

g44 1.8.12.15

 

Great: Sharp Mixture II CC 29 33

c25 22.26

c37 19.22

g44 15.19

c 50 12.15

................................................................................

.................................................................................

..............................

Swell: Mixture III CC 19.22.26

g 33 15.19.22

c 38 12.15.19

c 50 8.12.15

................................................................................

.................................................................................

..............................

Apse Solo: Fourniture III CC 19.22.26

c25 15.19.22

c37 12.15.19

c49 8.12.15

 

Apse Solo: Cornet V c25 1.(stopped) 8.12.15.17 throughout

................................................................................

.................................................................................

..............................

Grove Solo: Mixture III CC 15.19.22

g 33 12.15.22

g 45 8.12.15

 

Grove Solo: Cornet de Violes III CC 12.15 (string pipes)

c25 8.10.12

c49 5.8.10

................................................................................

.................................................................................

..............................

Echo: Harmonic Aetheria III CC 8.12.15 (dulciana scale pipes)

c25 5.12.15

c49 1.5.8

 

 

All stuff about stop-keys, couplers etc. above refers to (then anticipated) final design incorporating the Milton console. I had a temporary three-manual console on it with three-manuals-worth of couplers and octave couplers. Extra stops were in a large bank above the Treble stop jamb - recycled from a dead organ substitute. Best fate for it, actually.

 

Of course, posting this spec with its notes will raise more questions than it answers. For instance, the Regal on the Swell instead of something decent. It was a question of space! Now where I have moved to, I have a proper barn - not twice the size but a good bit bigger. There will be changes!

 

Sorry it's ended up very hard to decipher - I really can't face re-typing it all, not even to amuse fellow addicts.

 

Please be kind when you reply to this posting. There is no cure for this disease.

[Tony Newnham]

It would be interesting to see the spec. Paul - is it on line anywhere?

 

AJJ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi

 

"Me too". I wouldn't mind seeing the actual organ as well! (And, assuming it's at least partly real pipes, it's eligable for inclusion on NPOR.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Tony Newnham]

Oh dear.  For a few brief moments my ego was struggling with common sense, but ego has won. Anyone easily bored by self-indulgence, skip this posting!

 

Hi

 

I should have read to the end of the thread before asking! Are you planning any changes in it's new home?

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Pierre Lauwers]

I would like to know more about the Cornet de Viols (without a Tierce?)

and the Harmonic aetheria (German: Harmonia aetherea, usually three

ranks 2 2/3'-2'-1 3/5', as near to string tone as possible at such a pitch).

 

Along with strange things like Dulciana Mixture, Dulciana Cornet, Dolce Cornet

and Progressiv harmonica/ Progression harmonique, not to mention the

"Harmonics", these stops belong to the family of the typically romantic

Mixtures -something that would have been held for a contradiction in

its own terms not so long ago-.

 

At Ely Cathedral the Cornet de Viols (kept in its 1908 form) had three

ranks, one of which was a Tierce (when I visited at least). It yielded

surrealist effects and was used mainly in orchestral transcriptions.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

Hi

 

"Me too".  I wouldn't mind seeing the actual organ as well!  (And, assuming it's at least partly real pipes, it's eligable for inclusion on NPOR.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

'At least partly real pipes?'

 

It's all real pipes - not a substitute sound anywhere. It was a heap, but a fun heap and I aim to do rather better this time around. Last time, I was frantic to have something to practice upon - I was organist of a splendid Dutch classical job, but this was no use for any kind of serious rehearsal. That and I was fully employed as a state school head of music - allowing maybe two hours of organ-building in a day if I was lucky.

 

Now I have my freedom!

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

I would like to know more about the Cornet de Viols (without a Tierce?)

and the Harmonic aetheria (German: Harmonia aetherea, usually three

ranks 2 2/3'-2'-1 3/5', as near to string tone as possible at such a pitch).

 

Along with strange things like Dulciana Mixture, Dulciana Cornet, Dolce Cornet

and Progressiv harmonica/ Progression harmonique, not to mention the

"Harmonics", these stops belong to the family of the typically romantic

Mixtures -something that would have been held for a contradiction in

its own terms not so long ago-.

 

At Ely Cathedral the Cornet de Viols (kept in its 1908 form) had three

ranks, one of which was a Tierce (when I visited at least). It yielded

surrealist effects and was used mainly in orchestral transcriptions.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dear Pierre,

The Cornet de Violes did have a Tierce. It's there in my notes - 10 is a Tierce - admittedly an octave lower than usual. With the extremely strong harmonics of string pipes, you do not have to have this rank too high pitched. If this throws off a 16' resultant, so much the better! I am fairly sure (but cannot check now) that the Cornet de Violes at Westminster Abbey (H&H) has a 10th for most of the compass.

But don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

 

I was particularly pleased with my Harmonica Aetheria III on the Echo. The Echo organ at Tewkesbury (which was what I was imitating) had a 16' flue, but I didn't have space for that, on finding that I had space for three rather than the two ranks 12-15 (as on the stop key) I naturally thought, how about a 5.1/3 rank? It worked very well indeed. Once again, I used Dulciana ranks because this is what it was at Tewkesbury - that and when you rescue a redundant organ in England you usually end up with a spare Dulciana or two - high pitched strings on the other hand virtually never turn up outside extension organs.

 

The reason for so many strange names on the stops is that I propose to re-use virtually all the (J.W.Walker banana-shaped) stopkeys I have, which were made for the Tewkesbury organ. In his scheme, Huskisson Stubington deliberately avoided using the same names over and over. I may have to have one or two new stopkeys made (apparently one can get still them to special order) because I need an extra Tuba stopkey, also one for the percussion stop. There may have to be others, depending on what other wonders I can work into the scheme now I've got a bit more space.

[AJJ]

Thanks Paul - it looks like fun - I might mention it to my wife tonight and see if we can have one. !!

 

AJJ

[Pierre Lauwers]

Thanks Paul!

 

So 10= 3 1/5', all right.

This is what obtained at Ely, and of course I scarcely can imagine

a Viole d'orchestre at 1 3/5' pitch -its harmonics would be audible

by dogs, maybe-.

Pierre

[Guest acc]

Two famous French consoles have actually ended up in Belgium.

• Ste-Clotilde, Paris: the Cavaillé-Coll console as César Franck knew it was replaced by a new one when the organ was modified in the 1930s, and donated by (the then organist) Charles Tournemire to Belgian organist Flor Peeters. After the latter's death in 1986, it ended up in the Vleeshuis museum in Antwerp.
  
• Alexandre Guilmant's house organ (Mutin, 1899) in Meudon (a Paris suburb): it was bought by Marcel Dupré in the 1920s after he moved into his villa, also in Meudon. In the 1930's, Dupré modified the organ and replaced the console by a new one, but he kept the old console as a souvenir. At the end of the 1980s, the new owner of the villa wanted to get rid of it, and it was barely saved from destruction, to be rescued by Belgian organist Stéphane Detournay, who has taken it to the Dupré-Falcinelli foundation (of which he is caretaker) in Tournai. Noteworthy are the 61 note compass (not unique, but still quite unusual in France at the turn of the century) and the sostenuto device on the Récit manual.