Multiple Ranks

[DaveHarries]

The largest number of ranks taken by multiple-rank stops I have ever found in a 3 manual organ is to be found in the old main organ of the Marienkirche, Lubeck. Schulze replaced the organ from which this comes.

 

HW:

Rauschpfeife II (2 ranks)

Mixtur X-XV (10-15 ranks)

Scharff IV (4 ranks)

 

RP:

 

Sesquialtera II (2 ranks)

Mixtur V (5 ranks)

Scharff IV - V (4-5 ranks)

 

BW:

Sesquialtera II (2 ranks)

Mixtur VI - VIII (6-8 ranks)

Zimbel III (3 ranks)

 

Ped:

Mixtur VI (6 ranks)

 

If the organ was existant today, this organ (assuming each manual is 61 notes and the pedal is 30 notes) would be:

 

HW: 13 stops, 34 ranks, 2074 pipes

RP: 14 stops, 26 ranks, 1586 pipes

BW: 12 stops, 25 ranks, 1525 pipes

PD: 15 stops, 21 ranks, 630 pipes

===========================

TOTAL: 54 stops, 106 ranks, 5815 pipes

===========================

 

A bit over-the-top for a 3-manual organ that was around before the middle of the 19th century, I think!

 

Dave

[Barry Jordan]

In the cavernous spaces of St. Marien this is not really over the top at all. Huge mixtures ( although only the big HW mixture is really that big - and there are modern examples, for example Manuel Rosales XI rank mixture in Trinity Cathedral, Portland, Oregon, a much smaller room - which can easily compete ) were of course very common in the baroque period in North Germany. These were the last remnants of the "Blockwerk" style. Added to this, this was a 16' division with an otherwise relatively thinly present: Princ. 16', Oktave 8', Superoctave 4', Rauschquinte II. The mixture would hve had a lot of breaks and its general effect would have been grand rather than shrill. It would have been hopeless for polyphonic music, but that is not what would have been played on it, since the fugal episodes of north German music are played on consort registrations.

 

Remember that this was a very old organ, in effect dating back to 1516 (Hering), successively rebuilt by Scherer (1560), Burkhard (1596) and Stellwagen (1637 - 41). An idea of what the mixtures may have sounded like by the end may be derived from the smaller Stellwagen organ of Lübeck's St. Jakobikirche, or the other great Stellwagen organ in Stralsund St. Marien.

 

Incidentally, this organ did not have a Rückpositiv but rather an "Unterpositiv zu beiden Seiten".

 

And of course the supposition of 61 notes in the manuals is unjustified. A compass of four octaves with a short or broken octave in the bass, at any rate without low C sharp, is far more likely. That is, 45 to 48 notes. The pedal would probably have been C,D - d', 28 notes.

[Guest Geoff McMahon]

This is of course the organ which was in the marvellous gothic case, sadly, sadly, destroyed in the awful bombing of Lübeck on the 22nd of March 1942. At that time it had the Schulze organ in it of the same sort of size as the Doncaster Schulze. Is there a picture of this case anywhere on the web? I have not found one. A curiosity of the design was two pipes standing on their own on the wall either side of the case. I never did find out what they were. The bells which crashed down to the bottom of the south tower remain to this day as a memorial of that awful night and very poignant that sight is too.

 

John Pike Mander

[José Gallardo Alberni]

Is perhaps the photo the one of this link?

 

http://www.schnitgerorgel.de/html/idee.html

 

I don't understand the German very well! It's very possible I'm wrong!

[Pierre Lauwers]

The "Dom" is the Cathedral, while the Marienkirche is another church. Interesting page, though.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[José Gallardo Alberni]

And these?

 

http://www.heimatsammlung.de/motiv_unter/o...elorgan_103.jpg

 

http://home.arcor.de/accra/kaisertag/luebe...rienkirche.html

[Pierre Lauwers]

Yes !

 

This time is it the correct one.

(By the way, the "Death's dance" organ)

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers

[José Gallardo Alberni]

Oh, yes! I wrote in German pages it's known as Tontentanz Orgel. Do you know why?

[José Gallardo Alberni]

I am sorry! Obviously, I didn't write but I read!

Thank you.

[Pierre Lauwers]

It seems there was something like a local dance party whose name was "The dance of the death people". Well, Saint-Saëns wrote a "danse macabre"...

 

A-G Hill, in is well-known book "Organ cases and organs of the middle ages and renaissance" gives a beautiful drawing of the case. He also gives Schulze's disposition, according to his 1853 rebuild, after Hopkins. Here follows the mixtures, that may be interesting to compare with the previous scheme. We know Schulze was by no way against classic choruses -quite to the contrary- so we may assume this scheme was sufficient for the Marienkirche; but everyone having heard Armley "in situ" know also how boldly and loudly he voiced them:

 

HW

 

Rauschquint 2r

Mixtur 5r

Cymbel 3r

 

Pos

 

Mixtur 5r

Scharf 3r

 

Echo

 

Mixtur 5r

 

Schwell

 

Mixtur 3r

 

There were two pedal divisions, one "great" and one "positiv". On the great one:

 

Cornett 5r

....in which we may suppose there was a Tierce rank, but this did not necessarily made this stop comparable to the classic "Cornet".

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[José Gallardo Alberni]

Thank you very much for your complete accounts!

[Barry Jordan]

The pictures shown are of the main organ, whereas the "Totentanz"-Orgel was a transept instrument. The second of the links given by Jose

 

http://home.arcor.de/accra/kaisertag/luebe...rienkirche.html

 

shows, below the picture of the main organ and the nave, 2 parts of the frieze "Der Totentanz" by Noltke. The organ gained its name because of being in close proximity to this work.

 

The church has had a "Totentanz" organ again (the original, in its' Stellwagen form, was one of the instruments that initiated the organ reform movement and greatly impressed Hanns Henny Jahn, but was destroyed during WW II, like the Schulze organ which had been built into the gothic case) since about 1988, at any rate during my time as a student in Lübeck. It is a 4 manual instrument by Alfred Führer in eclectic style. But it is siruated in the choir and not in its historical position. The main organ is a really dreadful affair from the sixties, five manuals and about 100 stops, by Kemper. The most interesting thing about it is that you have to go out on to the roof to get to the console.

[Pierre Lauwers]

Thanks for these interesting precisions Barry,

 

Hill describes a "second organ", still with a baroque disposition,

in his second volume; this must be the actual "Totentanz-Orgel".

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[DaveHarries]

As is suggested by other respondents in this topic, the Marienkirche in Lubeck indeed had two organs. From what I have in my source, a summary of the specifications is as follows:

 

Main Organ:

HW: 16, 16, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2 2/3, II, X-XV, IV, 16, 8, 4

RP: 16, 8, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2, II, V, IV-V, 16, 8, 8, 8

BW: 8, 8, 4, 4, 2, 2, 1, II, VI-VIII, III, 8, 8

PD: 32, 16, 16, 8, 8, 4, 2, 1, VI, 24, 16, 16, 8, 8, 2

 

Totentanz Organ:

(1476-7, 1557-8, 1621-2)

HW: 16, 8, 8, 4, 2 2/3, II, VIII-X, 8

RP: 8, 8, 8, 4, 4, II, 1 1/3, VI-VIII, 16, 8

BW: 8, 4, 2, 1 1/3, 8, 4

PD: 16, 16, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1, IV, II, 16, 16, 8, 4, 2

 

But my source only gives the Totentanz chapel organ as having been destroyed in 1942. I don't know why.

 

NOTE: for the above was Making Music On The Organ (Peter Hurford, 1989 / 1990)

 

Dave

[Barry Jordan]

"But my source only gives the Totentanz chapel organ as having been destroyed in 1942. I don't know why."

See my post above, where I wrote

 

....the original, in its' Stellwagen form, was one of the instruments that initiated the organ reform movement and greatly impressed Hanns Henny Jahn, but was destroyed during WW II......

 

Stellwagen was the builder who worked on the instrument in 1621.

 

Cheers

[Barry Jordan]

Main Organ:

HW: 16, 16, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2 2/3, II, X-XV, IV, 16, 8, 4

RP: 16, 8, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2, II, V, IV-V, 16, 8, 8, 8

BW: 8, 8, 4, 4, 2, 2, 1, II, VI-VIII, III, 8, 8

PD: 32, 16, 16, 8, 8, 4, 2, 1, VI, 24, 16, 16, 8, 8, 2

 

There are a few mistakes in this, or perhaps simply "differences", depending on which source one has used. According to Klotz, The Werk reeds were Trompete 16', Trompete 8' and Zink 8', whereas the UNterposiztiv had Dulzian 16', Baarpfeife 8', Trichterregal 8', Schalmei 4'. The use of 4' reeds is more plausible in the context of short-resonator stops in this style of building.

 

The "Sifflet" in the BW was 1 1/3', not 1'.

 

The 24' Reed in the pedal seems very odd - This can't quite be discounted, would then mean however not that the stop sounded an odd pitch but that it began perhaps at F - perhaps a survivor from a previous incarnation of the instrument with different compasses. Klotz however gives the stop as 32'. But of course mistakes can easily be made where the organ itself has not existed any more for nearly 200 years.

[Pierre Lauwers]

Here follows A-G Hill's description of the "second organ"

(The "Totentanz-Orgel")

 

"One of the chapels on the north side of S. Mary's Lübeck, possesses a fine mediaeval organ, which is here depicted. The great west end instrument (The Schulze) is the subject of illustration in the first volume of this work. It stands in a gallery, with coved base and receding sides, and is thoroughly gothic in design. This organ is probably a little earlier in date than the one at the west end, and may be assigned to about the year 1500. The high side towers have lost their original cresting, but retain their floral shades and other enrichments. The choir organ is a later addition, at which time the gallery front was also altered. All the woodwork has been painted a brown colour in imitation of oak." (!!!)

 

He then gives the disposition as follows:

 

Great organ

 

Quintaton 16'

Principal 8'

Spitzflöte 8'

Octave 4'

Flöte 4'

Rausch Quint 2r

Mixture 5r

Trompete 8'

 

Choir organ

 

Principal 8'

Quintadena 8'

Rohrflöte 8'

Octave 4'

Flöte 2'

Sesquialtera 2r

Mixture 4r

Scharf 5r

Fagotto 16'

Regal 8'

 

Swell organ (? probably "Echo")

 

Gedackt 8'

Gedackt 4'

Cornett 3r

Trompete 8'

 

Pedal organ

 

Principal (in front) 16'

Gross Quint 10' (probably 10 2/3')

Octave 8'

Gedackt 8'

Octave 4'

Octave 2'

Mixture 3r

Posaune 16'

Trompete 8'

Schalmay ("Schalmey"?) 4'

 

So a baroque design, the choir organ even a late 18th century's design to be compared with Hildebrand's aesthetic. Something that would have been very interesting to hear with Bach...

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[Barry Jordan]

On this page you can find a picture of the Totentanz organ

 

http://www.die-auslese.de/html/ausgaben/1-...z/totentanz.htm

 

as well as this disposition, which differs (one again) in some important respects from the Hill quote.

 

Disposition der Totentanzorgel um 1630

HAUPTWERK 1475 - 77

Subbass od. Quintade 16'

Prinzipal 8'

Spitzflöte 8'

Oktave 4'

Nassat 2 2/3'

Rauschpfeife 2f.

Mixtur 8-10f.

Trompete 8'

 

BRUSTWERK 1621 / 22

Gedackt 8'

Quintadena 4'

Hohlflöte 2'

Quintflöte 1 1/3'

Scharf 4f.

Krummhorn 8'

Schalmey 4'

 

SCHWELLWERK 1760 / 61

 

RÜCKPOSITIV 1557 / 58

Prinzipal 8'

Rohrflöte 8'

Quintade 8'

Oktave 4'

Rohrflöte 4'

Sesquialter 2 f.

Sifflöte 1 1/3'

Scharf 6-8 f.

Dulzian 16'

Trichterregal 8'

 

 

PEDAL 1475-77, 1621 / 22

Prinzipal 16'

Subbass 16'

Oktave 8'

Gedackt 8'

Oktave 4'

Quintadena 4'

 

Zimbel 2 f.

Mixtur 4-5 f.

Posaune 16'

Dulzian 16'

Trompete 8'

Krummhorn (1579) 8'

Schalmei 4'

Kornett 2'

Aus "Die wunderbare Welt der Orgeln" von Dietrich Wölfel

 

Particularly interesting is the implication that the "Swell" - without stops - was constructed in the 18th century by means of enclosing the Brustwerk, which, in this version, has no trumpet. You will remember that the typical Brustwerk in many north German organs was in fact an extension of the Hauptwerk, often having no keyboard of its own, and containing reed stops which would have needed to be tuned more often and could more easily be done by the organist without a key-holder when not on the main HW chest .

 

 

At any rate in this form, the RP disposition does echo at least one aspect of Hildebrandt's style, his tendency to put simlar flutes at several pitches on to one manual, but it seems otherwise to be typical north German disposition, being very much a secondary chorus. The dates given are illuminating: the HW has not been altered from its gothic form (although this seems unlikely) whereas other parts of the organ are new or altered. The case shows this clearly too!

[Pierre Lauwers]

Hill does not specify any date ; maybe the disposition he gives is simply a later state than this "about 1630" one. Does anybody know more about the pre-1942 state of this organ, and who worked on it in the course of the 18th century?

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[Guest Geoff McMahon]

Is the CD of the Totentanzorgel referred to in the link which Barry Jordan posted still available? Has anybody heard it who can report how useful it is in recreating the sound of the instrument?

 

John Pike Mander

[Barry Jordan]

Other sourcs which I have available state that the Totentanz organ was "restored" (instandgesetzt) in 1475 and 1477 by J. Stephani. Jakob Scherer added the Rückpositiv in 1557/8 and Henning Kröger the Brustwerk in 1621/2. Friedrich Stellwagen worked on the instrument 1653/5.

 

Even the organ reform movement realised that this instrument was much older than the other "old" organ - St. Jakobi, small organ - which Lübeck boasted at the time of the congress of 1925.

 

It would be interesting to see the composition of the mixture on the HW, because it's a fairly safe bet that this must at first have been a Blockwerk. Was the 4' Oktave originally a part of the Mixture, or was this a new stop at some stage?

 

I found the disposition as it was before the destruction (which was the basis for a "reconstruction using the old scales" by Kemper after the war - a terrible instrument). Apart from a few orthographical differences (not really significant, since the stop knobs of such organs have normally been rewritten many times, very often simply on paper).

The only differences are:

16' in the HW is Quintadena

There are two extra stops in the pedal: Oktave 2' and Nachthorn 1', but no Krummhorn - not a stop that one would usually expect to find in the pedal, although logical when the two subsidiary divisions each have reeds of this kind at two pitches.

 

Cheers

[James Goldrick]

In regards to large mixture compositions;

Technically you could regard the La Force on the Pedal organ of Weingarten's 1750 Gabler as a 49 rank mixture...

I don't think they get any bigger than that.

[DouglasCorr]

It looks as if the Totentanzorgel CD is available at http://www.luebeck.de/aktuelles/pressedien...000/4/000327rk/

 

I recently had a difficult time buying organ music from a publisher in Cologne who wouldn't take a card or UK cheque - the only cost effective solution was to send Euros in an envelope! I wonder if there will be similar problems as well as difficult phone calls?? Who will voluntier to break the ice??

[Pierre Lauwers]

A true problem in the Euro area.

 

Since the checks are no more in use, and the international payments trough the banks that are still very expensive (even between Euro countries), there are only two solutions: credit cards (not really for private use in Belgium) or simply cash by the post, hiding the money into a page. All these "globalizing" tricks were never intended for the people, but only for big corporations.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.