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Posted
I've been the assistant at one of the larger greater churches in the south for a year, and I don't know the names of anyone on the local RSCM committee - or, for that matter, the national one. 

 

Well, for a start, you know me, and I know you know that I'm on the local committee. <_<

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Posted
Well, for a start, you know me, and I know you know that I'm on the local committee. <_<

 

Yes, but only v recently.

 

In response to other - some very valid points. I'm all for helping the majority - that's the whole point - but you don't do that by cancelling. Where you've possibly got the wrong end of the stick is that these courses in question (cancelled/underpromoted ones) are at a very basic/elementary level and for all ages, and not at all outfits like Oundle. I made the parallel there only because Oundle targets a very limited age range, is very expensive and fairly remote from just about everywhere, and yet is consistently full to bursting; the RSCM has four times the age range, nationwide facilities and, in theory, a fantastic mailing list, and still it ends up cancelling.

 

As you know most of Robert's training work (which he now does independently, because the RSCM decided to pull the plug on it) is with finding and training "volunteers". This, of course, is specific to areas outher than Winchester and based entirely on opinion, but my impression from outside is of an organisation cutting off its arms because it doesn't want to risk get its fingers burnt. This, of course, is counterproductive in the long term and would appear to make it look foolish in the short. "Dear X, thank you for your interest in our Sitting the Right Way Round on the Bench course. Unfortunately, we're cancelling it." If you got such a letter, what would you do the next time a brochure arrived?

 

As another committee member has said to me, the issue is less about coming up with the initiatives and more about inspiring people to come and join in. Time isn't such an issue, because they're often one day workshops or Fri/Sat/Sun; money isn't an issue because they're often free if one day, or v cheap otherwise. In other words, how do you get people to read the brochure and fill the form in? How do you make sure the right person has got the brochure, and the church secretary hasn't thrown it in the bin? As another member on this board said, Sarum College is "outside the radar". How do we change that?

Posted
I believe that a wonderful Metzler organ in the UK has had one tuning in 20 years. Reeds are looked after now and again but flue work should be most stable if of proper quality.

 

Best wishes to readers, but with sorrow for a church that should be paying so much each year for such professional visits.

 

NJA

 

I think I know the instrument you mean. It's cone tuned, which obviously helps. Stability comes not just from quality of fluework but from leaving the damn things alone. There's a little Walker in the care of a small firm I do a little work for which has had one visit (to mend a pedal tracker after someone stood on the board) since its rebuilding in 1993. Previously it was getting two or three ministrations a year. The money saved in the meantime will go a long way towards paying for the next cleaning.

Posted
Yes, but only v recently. 

 

In response to other - some very valid points.  I'm all for helping the majority - that's the whole point - but you don't do that by cancelling. 

 

Point taken.

Posted
As a member of the local (i.e. to David and Colin) RSCM committee, I feel obliged to say that we ARE trying to do something about supporting local church musicians. Basically, we're going out to churches and trying to offer them practical assistance/advice or just a friendly face.

 

....

 

Skills of the Church Musician is about providing practical training for people involved in Church Music, and, I guess, this is the banner under which the short organ courses would come.

 

It is my opinion that many RSCM affiliated church musicians are in a post where the church has very little money, they themselves are either not paid, or not very well paid, and where playing the organ or making church music is not their primary role in life. Therefore, forking out a reasonable sum of money and taking a week off their day job is not something that they're likely to do in a hurry. Therefore, I can see why the interest was low, and why the RSCM might not have put all their resources behind it - I honestly don't know what the situation is here.

 

I have considered attending these courses myself, but I would expect my church to pay for the course, and then I would have to consider whether I could countenance taking a week off my day job to take up the opportunity. Not all (many?) of us having the luxury of being retired or of being able to count church music as a full time job.

 

These are all fair points and I know I've talked with various members of the RSCM comittee over the past few years about ideas and I know that they do do an enormous amount of work. The problems as I see it is how do you get that little old lady who's just been thrown in at the deep end and who would benefit enormously, to come? The church's RSCM membership will have lapsed in 1984 and both parties will be off the radar to the other. That's a really big hurdle to overcome.

 

I also thoroughly agree and sympathise with your other point about organists like you and me taking a week off the day job to go on a course. It's something I'd love to do but I need to be inspired that it's worth the time and the money - and the best way to do that is talking to someone I respect who had been themselves. The majority of people I find who go tend to be retired people who have the time. However, I would find it a bit presumptious to expect my church to pay 100% for me to go unless I was a full time employee but I think it reasonable to ask for some form of bursary or contribution. I've gone to RCO masterclasses on Saturdays but I find there are very few which I can travel to and from in a day.

Posted
However, I would find it a bit presumptious to expect my church to pay 100% for me to go unless I was a full time employee but I think it reasonable to ask for some form of bursary or contribution.

 

Depends on what the course is. If the course is solely for the benefit of the church, i.e. something like "Music in Liturgy", or such like, then I think it's a reasonable expectation that the church goes some way to funding it. If it's "Be a better organist", then I think that's mine to fund. Which sort of is where I expect the RSCM / Organ divide to be ; I expect the RSCM to offer me courses or assistance with fitting music into the church, and promoting good music within a church context. I expect to look to the RCO or other organ related bodies to help me improve my playing across the board.

Guest Andrew Butler
Posted

I am not being deliberately provocative here, but maybe it's because I remember with affection the RSCM's Addington Palace days - which place was little over an hour's drive from home, so nice and convenient, thereby possibly also colouring my judgement - but has the RSCM been overall less effective since moving from there? <_<

Posted
Depends on what the course is. If the course is solely for the benefit of the church, i.e. something like "Music in Liturgy", or such like, then I think it's a reasonable expectation that the church goes some way to funding it.

To a large extent I would agree - certainly for competent organists like those of us here - but I also think there's a very large grey area at lower skills levels. Many churches today have to make do with people who can barely play any sort of keyboard at all. If those churches feel they need a hymn-player badly enough to press-gang some hapless congregant into playing then I think they ought to be willing to help fund his/her development.

 

But I have to admit to having the smallest crumb of a non-fat potato crisp on my shoulder. The church has a well-honed tradition of expecting something for nothing and with me I'm afraid it just doesn't wash.

Posted
Depends on what the course is. If the course is solely for the benefit of the church, i.e. something like "Music in Liturgy", or such like, then I think it's a reasonable expectation that the church goes some way to funding it. If it's "Be a better organist", then I think that's mine to fund. Which sort of is where I expect the RSCM / Organ divide to be ; I expect the RSCM to offer me courses or assistance with fitting music into the church, and promoting good music within a church context. I expect to look to the RCO or other organ related bodies to help me improve my playing across the board.

Agreed. Depends on who thinks they're going to benefit from a course as to who will pay for it.

 

I can see and agree with the distinction you're drawing between RSCM and RCO offerings - but in practice I think the lines are a bit blurred, and quite rightly. Good, well executed music is good, well executed music whether it is in a church or not.

Posted
I completely agree that this is  scandalous but the rub is - how are they supposed to know ? If, as is frequently claimed on this board and elsewhere, many churches are experiencing the greatest difficulty in finding someone who can actually play the organ how many is it plausible to assume have ready access to a member of the congregation with sufficient knowledge to oversee the work of the "builder/tuner" ? Employing independent consultants who do have such expertise, with its concomittant increase in costs, is most unlikely to prove attractive to almost any parish, and in the case of many is simply an unrealistic expectation, given the other calls on finance.

 

I would like to know the views of Frank Fowler on this but I do seem to remember a time when it could be assumed that the majority of craftsmen were (1) competent and (2) honest and could thus be trusted to the right thing without someone looking over their shoulder, although there have always been exceptions. But it now seems the exception may have become the rule. Does anyone know when this happened and why ?

 

 

For Brian - greetings!

 

There are several thoughts on this, one bing the demise of the "big" firm. Anything to do with organs is a never ending learning curve most of this being experience and training in pratical organ building.

 

As an apprentice I was indentured for five years to Hill Norman & Beard. I started tuning training with their outside rep in Bristol that gave me a good insight into so many different makes of organs and their problems. I then went to the London factory going through various departments that were concerned with the mechanics and pipes of the instrument, i.e. not through the saw mills, thicknessers and large planers, to see where my aptitude lay.

 

I seemed to have a reasonable ability to be able to deal with all sorts of different actions and regarded tuning as a highly skilled science so gravitated towards tuning and maintenance, which I regard as an art of its own - the rest is history.

 

At 21 I thought I knew the lot and realised as the years rolled by how little I really knew. One of the great plusses of a large Company workforce was that if I didn't know the answer to a problem there was always someone around to put me right.

 

I saw Government legislation throw the 5 year apprenticeship scheme out of the window, replacing it with three years "recognised craft training" and having achieved this you were entitled to call your self a fully qualified organ builder and (which the Union felt was a major triumph) entitled to full pay.

 

With so many `one man' firms setting up after the collapse of the large companies no matter how good and honest their intentions are there is the danger that a lack of experience and knowledge in a particular instance can casue problems. There are a few suspect people about but most small units today are honest and decent when working within their limitations.

 

These days this is when a qualified consultant (one who has a sound organ building foundation - not a teachers training certificate) is available their knowledge can be invaluable. So often though a PCC will discover "a friend of the Treasurers who knows all about organs - as he has an organ (an American Reed "sucker" and playing the pedals means pumping it with his feet) in his house" and they will listen to him sooner than a reputable organ builder or pay for a consultant.

 

There is of course the other problem with the constant use of the seemingly favourite church anthem "Where can we get it done more cheaply?". Unfortunately this form of shortsightedness has virtually no cure - not even after a total disaster.

 

In my young days, an organbuilding firm was regarded as one who built their own consoles. Then came the organ supply houses so that the main organbuilding skill then seemed to be the ability to use a power screwdriver.

 

Here endeth my lesson (for the moment anyway).

 

FF

Guest delvin146
Posted

These days this is when a qualified consultant (one who has a sound organ building foundation - not a teachers training certificate) is available their knowledge can be invaluable. So often though a PCC will discover "a friend of the Treasurers who knows all about organs - as he has an organ (an American Reed "sucker" and playing the pedals means pumping it with his feet) in his house" and they will listen to him sooner than a reputable organ builder or pay for a consultant.

 

I had exactly this, a friend of the treasurer's coming to look at the organ once. Mind you I suspect it involed rolled up trouser legs and funny hand shakes. Often seems to be the case.

Posted
These days this is when a qualified consultant (one who has a sound organ building foundation - not a teachers training certificate) is available their knowledge can be invaluable. So often though a PCC will discover "a friend of the Treasurers who knows all about organs - as he has an organ (an American Reed "sucker" and playing the pedals means pumping it with his feet) in his house" and they will listen to him sooner than a reputable organ builder or pay for a consultant.

 

I had exactly this, a friend of the treasurer's coming to look at the organ once. Mind you I suspect it involed rolled up trouser legs and funny hand shakes. Often seems to be the case.

We had one ourselves with our project - friend of PCC member couldn't understand why a new H&H organ cost so much and had we considered another builder (who will remain anonymous) who could do the job for 1/4 the price...

 

I found having our organ consultant (and I would always have a consultant who's got a professional background in organ building) was absolutely invaluable - and very helpful in situations like these. He didn't affect the cost of the work dramatically - we actually thought he was enormously good value for money and added a huge amount to the project.

Posted
We had one ourselves with our project - friend of PCC member couldn't understand why a new H&H organ cost so much and had we considered another builder (who will remain anonymous) who could do the job for 1/4 the price...

 

I found having our organ consultant (and I would always have a consultant who's got a professional background in organ building) was absolutely invaluable - and very helpful in situations like these. He didn't affect the cost of the work dramatically - we actually thought he was enormously good value for money and added a huge amount to the project.

 

Well done Colin! In this day and age what you have done seems to be obvious answer.

 

FF

Posted
I found having our organ consultant (and I would always have a consultant who's got a professional background in organ building) was absolutely invaluable - and very helpful in situations like these. He didn't affect the cost of the work dramatically - we actually thought he was enormously good value for money and added a huge amount to the project.

 

 

I am quite sure this is true and that a competent consultant is invariably worth his/her fee BUT how is the typical cash-strapped parish to ensure that it selects a consultant of this type and is not saddled with an incompetent rogue ? After all it can hardly be the position that organ consultancy is the only profession without black sheep, can it? And if they exist, how is the parish supposed to recognise them when the whole tenor of the discussion here seems to have proceeded on the assumption that parishes are not very well equipped to protect themselves from rogue builders ?

Posted
For Brian - greetings!

 

 

 

With so many `one man' firms setting up after the collapse of the large companies no matter how good and honest their intentions are there is the danger that a lack of experience and knowledge in a particular instance can casue problems. There are a few suspect people about but most small units today are honest and decent when working within their limitations.

 

These days this is when a qualified consultant (one who has a sound organ building foundation - not a teachers training certificate) is available their knowledge can be invaluable. So often though a PCC will discover "a friend of the Treasurers who knows all about organs - as he has an organ (an American Reed "sucker" and playing the pedals means pumping it with his feet) in his house" and they will listen to him sooner than a reputable organ builder or pay for a consultant.

 

There is of course the other problem with the constant use of the seemingly favourite church anthem "Where can we get it done more cheaply?". Unfortunately this form of shortsightedness has virtually no cure - not even after a total disaster.

 

In my young days, an organbuilding firm was regarded as one who built their own consoles. Then came the organ supply houses so that the main organbuilding skill then seemed to be the ability to use a power screwdriver.

 

Here endeth my lesson (for the moment anyway).

 

FF

 

 

Dear Frank,

 

Thanks for this, which I found most enlightening. Your suggestion that much of the problem is caused by the absence of knowledgeable colleagues to ask seems plausible to me- it at least suggests that in a number of cases cock up rather than conspiracy or malign intent is the likeliest explanation.

 

BAC

Posted
I believe that a wonderful Metzler organ in the UK has had one tuning in 20 years. Reeds are looked after now and again but flue work should be most stable if of proper quality.

 

NJA

 

They must be very fortunate (I assume that we are talking about a certain three-clavier instrument identified with a chapel in a great seat of learning).

 

Since flue-work, as I suspect that Frank Fowler can testify, will move uniformly out of tune with the reeds (which are often more stable apart from odd notes due to dust on the tongues, etc) I am surprised that this is the case on this organ.

 

Currently on my own instrument, the reeds are in tune with themselves, the flues are also in tune with each other - and the party-horns are fulfilling a similar function to that supplied by Italy during WWII. The flues have, for the record, all gone slightly sharp to the usual pitch of this instrument.

Posted
They must be very fortunate (I assume that we are talking about a certain three-clavier instrument identified with a chapel in a great seat of learning).

 

Since flue-work, as I suspect that Frank Fowler can testify, will move uniformly out of tune with the reeds (which are often more stable apart from odd notes due to dust on the tongues, etc) I am surprised that this is the case on this organ.

 

Currently on my own instrument, the reeds are in tune with themselves, the flues are also in tune with each other - and the party-horns are fulfilling a similar function to that supplied by Italy during WWII. The flues have, for the record, all gone slightly sharp to the usual pitch of this instrument.

 

The problem with many British organists is that their instrument must be in tune at all times, no matter what conditions prevail. A country church, with one visit per year, usually in early summer the organ would often stand in tune like a rock. The organist just setting to and playing it through the rest of the year.

 

With modern heating, soundboard shrinkage and temperature changes plus four tuning vivits per year it usually meant the tuning had to be hacked about constantly and never got a chance to settle.

 

I tried, even on the large instrument to `set' the job in the summer when the temperatures were stable and then on other visits, whenever the flue work went out of tune with the reeds, would scale the reeds at their normal pitch and tune octaves up and down, thus disturbing them as little as possible - and usually, after a couple of visits, they became stable. It is far more acceptable to have a reed stop in tune with its self even if slightly out of pitch with the fluework than a reed stop that has everything out of tune everywhere.

 

Unfortunately in doing this one was liable to be accused by so many organists of not tuning the organ properly.

 

I had one organist who screamed blue murder when his departmentsl pitches went out of tune in the winter with a highly efficient, rapid, new hot air heating system, so efficient that it only needed switching on in a cold church at 9 am to being the temperature up for the congregation to be able to take their overcoats off in time for the 10.30 service. He even wanted me to come out one cold winter's Sunday morning when the pitches went adrift and he had the Bishop coming.

 

The cure, I put thermometers in the Swell, Choir box and on the Great, tuned the job in summer when the heating was not used and the temperature was stable and told him whenever all the thermometers were the same and the organ pitches were out I would give him a free tuning, night or day - I never was called out!

 

The truth finally dawned and he started to play hell with the heating system, instead of me.

 

FF

Posted
I had one organist who screamed blue murder when his departmentsl pitches went out of tune in the winter with a highly efficient, rapid, new hot air heating system, so efficient that it only needed switching on in a  cold church at 9 am to being the temperature up for the congregation to be able to take their overcoats off in time for the 10.30 service. He even wanted me to come out one cold winter's Sunday morning when the pitches went adrift and he had the Bishop coming.

 

The cure, I put thermometers in the Swell, Choir box and on the Great, tuned the job in summer when the heating was not used and the temperature was stable and told him whenever all the thermometers were the same and the organ pitches were out I would give him a free tuning, night or day - I never was called out!

 

The truth finally dawned and he started to play hell with the heating system, instead of me.

 

FF

 

Sounds like a good policy. Leaving things alone does wonders. The instrument Nigel refers to is cone tuned, all in one case and pretty much at one level, in a stable building with more or less constant number of bodies and constant heating, central to the building, and all on the same wind, all of which must help a lot. I don't know whether it's relevant but the blower is directly next to the organ so it's getting ambient temperature wind rather than from a distance. (If it was on the other side of the organ, it would be smelling nicely of coffee from the refectory below - I wonder if "the smell of the music" could be the next big thing? Lavender bags in the reservoir?) In short, an ideal situation. Plus it's extremely well made.

 

I thought flues went sharp by a lesser amount and reeds flat by a greater amount, not uniformly, as pcnd states?

Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk
Posted
I thought flues went sharp by a lesser amount and reeds flat by a greater amount, not uniformly, as pcnd states?

 

Fluework moves more-or-less together - sharpens with warmth.

Little story: Rushworth &Dreaper's last tuner at Guildford Cathedral had a theory which he put to the test in front of assembled 'great and good' (including Revd Dr.Thistlethwaite and various well-known and much-respected organists) that because the metal expands, he maintained that the fluework must (logically) go flat in warm weather. They disagreed. When he offered to put this to the test by demonstrating, this 'theory' was roundly disproved and he went away somewhat chastened, making Muttley noises under his breath. Not surprisingly, this was the moment when the contract was taken away from R&D and given to my friends the Shepherd brothers!

 

Reeds - rough rule: the higher the pressure, the more likely they are to stay in tune. In practice, this often makes them seem as if they've gone flat, it is in fact the flue work that goes sharp leaving them stranded! Low pressure reeds, particularly ones with fractional length resonators are usually the worst at staying in tune*.

 

The most stable pipes are

1. on the North side of a church

2. not too near a ceiling or a high-speed heating system

3. not provided with lovely new tuning slides which (being new) offer little friction to the pipe!

4. those which are not frequently tuned - FF's comments above ring very true indeed in my experience.

5. good solid romantic reeds, best of all, ones with harmonic trebles.

 

*For seven years I was organist of a beautiful Blank (modern Dutch) organ at St.Gregory's Church, Cheltenham. The fluework got tuned right through only once in my time there. By contrast, the reeds would stay in tune for about an hour if you were lucky! The price you pay for having gorgeous fluework that really sings can often be unstable little reed stops with tiny resonators and thin tongues. Full-toned reeds hardly speak on anything much under 3". Voicers who can get superb results below 3" are very rare indeed - these are absolute stars and should be treated and paid appropriately. Recommendations: whoever voices for Bill Drake (sorry, don't know his name), David Frostick who voices reeds for Manders and David Wells, and there's the great Keith Bance - master of the 32' Oliphant and other 'French' effects!

Posted
Fluework moves more-or-less together - sharpens with warmth.

Little story:  Rushworth &Dreaper's last tuner at Guildford Cathedral had a theory which he put to the test in front of assembled 'great and good' (including Revd Dr.Thistlethwaite and various well-known and much-respected organists) that because the metal expands, he maintained that the fluework must (logically) go flat in warm weather. They disagreed. When he offered to put this to the test by demonstrating, this 'theory' was roundly disproved and he went away somewhat chastened, making Muttley noises under his breath. Not surprisingly, this was the moment when the contract was taken away from R&D and given to my friends the Shepherd brothers!

 

Reeds - rough rule: the higher the pressure, the more likely they are to stay in tune.  In practice, this often makes them seem as if they've gone flat, it is in fact the flue work that goes sharp leaving them stranded!  Low pressure reeds, particularly ones with fractional length resonators are usually the worst at staying in tune*.

 

The most stable pipes are

1. on the North side of a church

2. not too near a ceiling or a high-speed heating system

3. not provided with lovely new tuning slides which (being new) offer little friction to the pipe!

4. those which are not frequently tuned - FF's comments above ring very true indeed in my experience.

5. good solid romantic reeds, best of all, ones with harmonic trebles.

 

*For seven years I was organist of a beautiful Blank (modern Dutch) organ at St.Gregory's Church, Cheltenham. The fluework got tuned right through only once in my time there.  By contrast, the reeds would stay in tune for about an hour if you were lucky!  The price you pay for having gorgeous fluework that really sings can often be unstable little reed stops with tiny resonators and thin tongues. Full-toned reeds hardly speak on anything much under 3". Voicers who can get superb results below 3" are very rare indeed - these are absolute stars and should be treated and paid appropriately.  Recommendations:  whoever voices for Bill Drake (sorry, don't know his name), David Frostick who voices reeds for Manders and David Wells, and there's the great Keith Bance - master of the 32' Oliphant and other 'French' effects!

 

 

TEPMPRATURES AND TUNING

 

This is a highly complex area and in trying to outline the general aspects in a basic way very much simplifies the subject which is a major part of a Physics study.

 

AIR

 

Air, a gas, can be likened to Golden Syrup, that as you heat it, moves more easily (or quickly) and, when hot you can write you name in you porridge with it. Likewise in dry air at 32’ (degrees) F the speed of sound is some 1087 feet per second. In dry air at 60’ F the speed increases to 1118 feet per second.

 

OPEN PIPES

 

If one blows over the open end of a pipe or tube, we hear a musical note which gives the natural frequency of vibrations of the air (gas) inside.

 

The frequency (vibrations) of this column is proportional to the speed of sound travelling over that column. If the air is heated, energy is transmitted to the molecules, causing them to move faster which in turn increases the speed of the sound over said column of air, the number of vibrations per second becoming faster causing a rise in pitch as the air becomes less dense.

 

To become a little more factual let us suppose that a pipe at 40’ F is giving 493.9 vibrations per second and the temperature rises to 70’ F then the vibrations per second will increase to 508.69 – which is virtually a rise in pitch of half a semitone.

 

On first observations one might well say that the metal of the pipe will expand, lengthen and the pipe will go flat but this is so minimal (in our example a drop in pitch of around 0.12 vibrations per second) that it can be ignored as far as we are concerned at the moment. There is also the fact that wooden pipes don’t expand as metal pipes, but let us not confuse the issue at this point.

 

REED PIPES

 

In an open pipe the vibrations are activated (created) by air being forced through an aperture and across the languid and subject from the start to a change in temperature affecting the density of the air. In reed pipes the vibrations are activated by the set length of a beating reed tongue and therefore are constant. (Forget about loose wedges, dirt and bad tuning springs) thus in an ideal world it is the flue work that shifts and the reeds stay put.

 

In actual fact the size of the reed resonator does affect the pitch as the column of air inside (but not the creation of the vibrations per second) is subject to the same laws of physics as in an open pipe when the temperature changes.

 

The less volume of air that a reed resonator contains, the less it will alter in pitch. If a reed has a whacking great full-length resonator it will move more on the sharp side with the flue work and not appear to be so out of tune (pitch) as a Vox Humana with a tiny resonator, which moves far less in pitch.

 

On reading this through I realised I have only scratched the surface of the subject as there are far more complexities to be considered, and wonder why I started on it. If the temperature changes, the pitch of the organ moves away from the reeds and French music sound more authentic, and that’s that! I will now pour myself a glass of wine and go to bed.

 

FF :ph34r:

Posted
On reading this through I realised I have only scratched the surface of the subject as there are far more complexities to be considered, and wonder why I started on it. If the temperature changes, the pitch of the organ moves away from the reeds and French music sound more authentic, and that’s that! I will now pour myself a glass of wine and go to bed.

 

FF    :ph34r:

 

A very fine French wine, I hope! Anyway, I'm glad you started on the subject, it's most interesting.

 

JC

Posted
A very fine French wine, I hope!  Anyway, I'm glad you started on the subject, it's most interesting.

 

JC

 

 

====================

 

I always think that organists should retire on a glass of Cliquot

 

:ph34r:

 

MM

Posted
I thought flues went sharp by a lesser amount and reeds flat by a greater amount, not uniformly, as pcnd states?

 

You are welcome to come and have a listen from the Nave (or the console) David....

 

;)

Posted
Fluework moves more-or-less together - sharpens with warmth.

Little story:  Rushworth &Dreaper's last tuner at Guildford Cathedral had a theory which he put to the test in front of assembled 'great and good' (including Revd Dr.Thistlethwaite and various well-known and much-respected organists) that because the metal expands, he maintained that the fluework must (logically) go flat in warm weather. They disagreed. When he offered to put this to the test by demonstrating, this 'theory' was roundly disproved and he went away somewhat chastened, making Muttley noises under his breath.

 

Presumably he forgot to allow for the fact that when the metal expands there is effectively less room inside the pipe (since the metal will expand in both directions). Therefore, the pitch will be raised, albeit slightly.

Posted
Presumably he forgot to allow for the fact that when the metal expands there is effectively less room inside the pipe (since the metal will expand in both directions). Therefore, the pitch will be raised, albeit slightly.

 

But surely the metal expanding in both directions will make there even more room inside the pipe? However I guess that while the pipe will get longer (leading to a flattening of pitch) it will also become of wider scale (which due to increased end effect will sharpen pitch)?

 

But I think the main point is that pipe dimensions are not the dominant effect. The reduction in density of the air is far more significant, and therefore results in an overall sharpening of pitch.

 

JJK

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