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Proms 2006


DaveHarries

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Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk
Hi all.

 

Anyone know if there is any organ music (preferably solos but no matter either way) in the 2006 Proms @ the RAH? Haven't yet seen any signs of some but might just be inattentiveness on my part.

 

Dave

 

There's to be a major recital by David Goode at the RAH broadcast by the BBC. Only one problem - the programme!

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Oh come on !! Its not that bad. I must admit though, I am sick of hearing the Mozart fantasia this year !!

 

The Ad Nos alone might be worth the admission money. Oddly enough I have only heard this piece in recital on three occassions and I can recall each clearly.

 

Herrick Bunney at the McEwan Hall in the late 70s, Paul at Redcliffe circa 93-95 and John Scott at St Pauls a few years back. The latter was the only occassion, at an organ recital, when I was tempted to get to my feet to appalud at the end. Tempted mind you..I didn't quite manage it !!

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There's to be a major recital by David Goode at the RAH broadcast by the BBC. Only one problem - the programme!

 

Hello Paul,

I quite agree ' the programme'. A wonderful organist, but look what he's playing ! oh dear ! Anyway many of the musical cognoscenti will be at the Opening sevice of The Three Choirs Festival at that time. 4pm ! What a silly time. Why only one organ recital ? or have I overlooked another. The RAH organ cost mega money and it seems to be rarely used. Wake up RAH authorities.

 

M.S.

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I quite agree ' the programme'.  A wonderful organist, but look what he's playing !  oh dear !  Anyway many of the musical cognoscenti will be at the Opening sevice of The Three Choirs Festival at that time.  4pm !  What a silly time.  Why only one organ recital ?  or have I overlooked another.  The RAH organ cost mega money and it seems to be rarely used.  Wake up RAH authorities.

Come on, that's not very fair! :ph34r:

 

We have had solo recitals from DGW in Autumn 2005, Simon Preston in June, David Goode at the Proms this Sunday, and John Scott on 25 October whose programme will be:

 

Wagner: Prelude to ‘Die Meistersinger’ (transcribed E.H. Lemare)

Handel: Concerto in G (Op.4, No. 1)

Bach: Fantasia and Fugue in C minor BMV 537

Liszt: Fantasia and Fugue on BACH (transcribed by J. Guillou)

Prokofiev: Toccata (transcribed by J. Guillou)

Grainger: Handel in the Strand (arranged by W. Stockmeier)

Bossi: Scherzo

Reubke: Sonata on the 94th Psalm

 

Plus there's the annual Organ Gala with John Birch. Stephen Disley and the RPO, the next one being on Sunday 3 June 2007. No one can say the RAH are neglecting the wonderful monstrosity that is the RAH organ, can they?

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Come on, that's not very fair!  :ph34r: 

 

We have had solo recitals from DGW in Autumn 2005, Simon Preston in June, David Goode at the Proms this Sunday, and John Scott on 25 October whose programme will be:

 

Wagner: Prelude to ‘Die Meistersinger’ (transcribed E.H. Lemare)

Handel: Concerto in G (Op.4, No. 1)

Bach: Fantasia and Fugue in C minor BMV 537

Liszt: Fantasia and Fugue on BACH (transcribed by J. Guillou)

Prokofiev: Toccata (transcribed by J. Guillou)

Grainger: Handel in the Strand (arranged by W. Stockmeier)

Bossi: Scherzo

Reubke: Sonata on the 94th Psalm

 

Plus there's the annual Organ Gala with John Birch. Stephen Disley and the RPO, the next one being on Sunday 3 June 2007. No one can say the RAH are neglecting the wonderful monstrosity that is the RAH organ, can they?

 

The RAH authorities are doing a fine job with the wonder in their charge.

 

Mr Kenyon, planning supremo for the Proms, is another matter.

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The RAH authorities are doing a fine job with the wonder in their charge.

 

Mr Kenyon, planning supremo for the Proms, is another matter.

 

 

But why should they - there aren't violin recitals or piano recitals galore?

Some of you guys need to get a grip on reality!

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But why should they - there aren't violin recitals or piano recitals galore?

Some of you guys need to get a grip on reality!

 

It would appear from your cryptic reply that it is you who is being obtuse and divorced from reality. The RAH has just spent £1.7 million on their masterpiece and it should therefore be advertised and used far more prominently than it is; the half built 'Ally Pally' organ receives greater publicity than the RAH organ which remains one of the wonders of the Victorian age. I fully understand that the RAH need to maximise revenues by multifarious functions but 3 solo organ recitals in 1 year is hardly maximising their investment in their organ. This is the only large venue in the capital that possesses a huge organ which is part of the building.

My further point is that providing just one solo organ recital during the whole of the Proms season, and a very mediocre programme at that, is lamentable. The timing of this one recital will guarantee a minimum audience. What are people normally doing at 4 pm ? Recovering from luncheon, travelling, sunning themselves, and a host of other activities, certainly not attending organ recitals.

What have violin and piano recitals, 'Alsa' to do with the price of peas in China ? These recitals can be heard in countless other venues but the RAH is unique in possessing an organ that was built solely to play concert music. I personally think that the living re-incarnation of the 20th century's greatest concert organist, Lemare, should be invited to recital here, and by that I mean the young Australian virtuoso, Thomas Heywood; at least he knows, and fully understands, how to programme for his audience.

I do look forward to John Scott's recital in October, an excellent programme.

Finally, I do agree with 'Goldsmith' that Mr Kenyon appears to be very anti-organ; perhaps this might be a good time to push for his replacement as Controller of Radio 3.

M.S.

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It would appear from your cryptic reply that it is you who is being obtuse and divorced from reality. 

 

 

... I personally think that the living re-incarnation of the 20th century's greatest concert organist, Lemare, should be invited to recital here, and by that I mean the young Australian virtuoso, Thomas Heywood;  at least he knows, and fully understands, how to programme for his audience.

I do look forward to John Scott's recital in October, an excellent programme.

Finally, I do agree with 'Goldsmith' that Mr Kenyon appears to be very anti-organ; perhaps this might be a good time to push for his replacement as Controller of Radio 3.

M.S.

 

Really? The Proms are an independent music festival and not there to bang drums for or against one instrument or another. One organ recital is enough for the Prom season in terms of musical balance and sensible management of resources. The concert is at a good time for organ concerts and a reasonable day of the week too - a weekday afternoon would be out of the question, so perhaps you would prefer the late night slot?

 

How on earth do you think the BBC could justify giving over a whole evening Prom to the organ without having other single instrument Proms? I'm sure they are partly doing it as a 'favour' to organ fans.

 

Similarly, the RAH runs as a venue that is hired by the day or week by outside organisations. In order to balance the books the hall is managed on the basis that the building rarely sleeps. Nevertheless they have managed to squeeze out time to have three major evening organ concerts each year - plus the attendant many hours of organ practice which they must give to each player.

 

That is what I mean about the armchair critics getting real. You live in some sort of fantasy world where everyone wants hear lots of organ recitals at the RAH each year. But if there were so many more organ concerts then the audiences would inevitably pick and choose and eventually dry up.

 

Goode's programme may not be to your taste, or indeed mine, but it is at least innovative in terms of repertoire (not many will have heard of some of the music, never mind know it - but many non organists might just be interested in hearing another facet of a well known composer's output) and has a broad variety of musical style.

 

Thomas Heywood is undoubtedly an organist of great repute and his audience base is growing. When you are the controller of Radio 3 I'm sure you'll realise that you'll need to sell that to the British public a bit more before you risk a Prom concert on an unknow overseas player.

 

I'm sure that the great weight of organ fans across the UK petitioning the BBC will secure the removal of Kenyon as Controller of R3, in spite of his great success in the last few Prom seasons and fantastic development of the radio station - yeah, right!

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I have just come back from tonights Albert Hall Prom given by the National Youth Orchestra.

 

One of the items was Taras Bulba by Janacek which calls for the `mighty organ' in the last movement. It appeared and was wonderful, as was the orchestra conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

 

I file this under `memorable moments'.

 

FF

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Guest Barry Oakley
I have just come back from tonights Albert Hall Prom given by the National Youth Orchestra.

 

One of the items was Taras Bulba by Janacek which calls for the `mighty organ' in the last movement. It appeared and was wonderful, as was the orchestra conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

 

I file this under `memorable moments'.

 

FF

 

I have to agree with you, Frank. Although not being there I was able to listen to the Prom on a very good hi-fi system at home. The RAH organ sounded magnificent in the background, coming through with an orchestra as a good concert hall organ should. I thought the NYO were magnificent, too. I wondered who the organist was. Was he or she a young musician or was it a well-known organist?

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=========================

 

How can you possibly yawn at this programme?

 

It goes without saying that David Goode is one of the finest organists in the world; so let's take a stunning recital performance for granted prior to the start.

 

Now what's wrong with the programme? Is it the Eastern Bloc connections? Is it simply because some of the works are unknown quantities?

 

Mozart

Fantasy in F minor for mechanical organ, K608 (11 mins)

(Made possible by the Eastern European flute-clock maker, Fr Primitivus Niameche. Mozart also enjoyed his time in Praha, and even wrote a Symphony and premiered Opera there)

 

Shostakovich

'The Gadfly' - Credo; The Cathedral Service (7 mins)

(I've never heard this)

 

Glire

Fugue on a Russian Christmas Song (2 mins)

(I don't know this, of course, which will not surprise anyone)

 

Glazunov

Fantasy, Op.110 (17 mins)

(OK, maybe not the most imposing work at first glance, but the harmonies are magnificent in parts, and there is, if I've got it right, use of the "Dies Irae" theme. It also has a fugue which comences, unusually, on the pedals. The work is dedicated to Marcel Dupre, of course, who taught Galsunov, so there's a nomical French connection for the Francophiles)

 

Böhm

Chorale Prelude on 'Vater unser im Himmelreich' (4 mins)

(That sounds fine to my ears)

 

J S Bach

Chorale Prelude on 'Dies sind die heil'gen zehn Gebot', BWV678 (5 mins)

(Bach year......highly appropriate)

 

Liszt

Fantasia and Fugue on 'Ad nos, ad salutarem undam' (28 mins)

(Well, this is Hungarian music at its wild, passionate best.....Liszt on Magyar horseback, which very few good organists can pull off effectively. I sense that this will be "special" in every way)

 

Maybe....just maybe...David Goode is ONE organist who is waking up to eastern european music, which may yet prove to be the foundation stone for a renewal of interest in composing for the organ.

 

That's a personal view of course, but it's nice to be as one with the great and the Goode.

 

:)

 

MM

 

PS; Pity he couldn't have included the Josef Klicka "Wenceslas Variations" or Slavicky's "The Eyes")

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Hi all.

 

Anyone know if there is any organ music (preferably solos but no matter either way) in the 2006 Proms @ the RAH? Haven't yet seen any signs of some but might just be inattentiveness on my part.

 

Dave

 

=================

 

I didn't know we had a Board Member's mugshot section!!

 

:)

 

MM

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I have to agree with you, Frank. Although not being there I was able to listen to the Prom on a very good hi-fi system at home. The RAH organ sounded magnificent in the background, coming through with an orchestra as a good concert hall organ should. I thought the NYO were magnificent, too. I wondered who the organist was. Was he or she a young musician or was it a well-known organist?

 

Barry,

 

The organist was one Duncan Ward (16) pianist/organist of the NYO who also played the piano part in the Stravinsky. It really was a youth DIY evening.

 

Regards,

 

FF

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"How can you possibly yawn at this programme?

 

It goes without saying that David Goode is one of the finest organists in the world; so let's take a stunning recital performance for granted prior to the start"

 

Yes, OK I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. A really spine-tingling performance.

 

P

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Point of information.  Your information is just a tad out of date.  Roger Wright replaced Nicholas Kenyon as Controller of Radio 3 in 1999.

 

You are quite right - apologies.

 

I stand by everything else though - and it was a fantastic Prom - all played from memory and the music sounded wonderful, as did the instrument, in particular the quieter colours that were used.

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Really? The Proms are an independent music festival and not there to bang drums for or against one instrument or another. One organ recital is enough for the Prom season in terms of musical balance and sensible management of resources. The concert is at a good time for organ concerts and a reasonable day of the week too - a weekday afternoon would be out of the question, so perhaps you would prefer the late night slot?

 

How on earth do you think the BBC could justify giving over a whole evening Prom to the organ without having other single instrument Proms? I'm sure they are partly doing it as a 'favour' to organ fans.

 

Similarly, the RAH runs as a venue that is hired by the day or week by outside organisations. In order to balance the books the hall is managed on the basis that the building rarely sleeps. Nevertheless they have managed to squeeze out time to have three major evening organ concerts each year - plus the attendant many hours of organ practice which they must give to each player.

 

That is what I mean about the armchair critics getting real. You live in some sort of fantasy world where everyone wants hear lots of organ recitals at the RAH each year. But if there were so many more organ concerts then the audiences would inevitably pick and choose and eventually dry up.

 

Goode's programme may not be to your taste, or indeed mine, but it is at least innovative in terms of repertoire (not many will have heard of some of the music, never mind know it - but many non organists might just be interested in hearing another facet of a well known composer's output) and has a broad variety of musical style.

 

Thomas Heywood is undoubtedly an organist of great repute and his audience base is growing. When you are the controller of Radio 3 I'm sure you'll realise that you'll need to sell that to the British public a bit more before you risk a Prom concert on an unknow overseas player.

 

I'm sure that the great weight of organ fans across the UK petitioning the BBC will secure the removal of Kenyon as Controller of R3, in spite of his great success in the last few Prom seasons and fantastic development of the radio station - yeah, right!

 

Hey! Calm down, Alsa! :)

 

David Goode's recital was exactly what one might have expected from this player: superb. The Russian items were beautifully played, but not inherently more interesting or illuminating than British repertoire of the same period...

 

I used to work at the RFH, so I'm well aware of the pressures on such venues.

 

I regret the way the organ is treated as a 'misunderstood elderly relative at a party' in the Proms programme. There are certainly no piano/violin recitals at the Proms, but the violin is heard in almost every concert. Get my point?

 

I'd be willing to sacrifice the solo recital for some serious concerto/concertante rep besides Poulenc/Saint-Saens etc. How about a BBC commission or two?

 

And why shouldn't we 'bang the drum' for the organ? Last year the Proms held a violin weekend, the RFH holds a yearly 'Rhthym Sticks' drumming festival etc. etc. If the public does not get the chance to hear the organ in the context of mainstream concerts, then how will anyone get the chance to fall in love with the instrument in the twenty-first century?

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Thank you 'Goldsmith' 'Elsie', or whatever the pseudonymn was under which she was cowering, was rather getting her knickers in a twist. Let me state here that it is more than likely that 'Elsie' possesses greater musical knowledge than I, that wouldn't be too difficult ! but nevertheless I think that I have valid points to make over the RAH organ.

 

Some of 'Elsie's' points were a little muddled, i.e. " if there were to be many more organ recitals then audiences would dry up" so, in effect, what he is saying that if there isn't enough audiences to go round then why bother with organ recitals in the first place.

 

Solo organ in the Proms. ok maybe he has a point here. obviously the BBC have decided that one is enough.

 

HOWEVER, the RAH, as an institution, could promote organ recitals if it chose to do so. Doesn't the RAH have a responsibility to promote organ music having spent so much money on its instrument ?

 

Finally, if the economy will only allow 3 organ recitals per year then why on earth spend £1.7 million on restoring the organ in the first place ? For use at Christmas an electronic could be hired in and the audiences that attend these concerts wouldn't know the difference.

 

Other concert halls use their organs and seem to have no trouble in getting good attendances. Hull City Hall, someone mentioned, Symphony Hall Birmingham, Victoria Hall Hanley. It may very well be that trying to fill the much larger RAH for an organ recital is indeed impossible, or, at least, fill it enough, to cover costs.

I don't know. Perhaps someone might explain this point.

 

If my points are wrong then I await to be corrected.

 

M.S.

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The problem the RAH have is that organ recitals are a loss maker for them. To simply put on an organ recital means they are going to lose money. So it is understandable why they would prefer to have Eric Clapton, Cirque du Soleil or the Brit Awards as these bring in a financial return. Given this situation, I think the RAH should be applauded for investing £1.7m in the organ rebuild and for putting on recitals with the calibre of DGW, Simon Preston, David Goode and John Scott.

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Thank you 'Goldsmith'  'Elsie', or whatever the pseudonymn was under which she was cowering, was rather getting her knickers in a twist.  Let me state here that it is more than likely that 'Elsie' possesses greater musical knowledge than I, that wouldn't be too difficult ! but nevertheless I think that I have valid points to make over the RAH organ.

 

Some of 'Elsie's' points were a little muddled,  i.e. " if there were to be many more organ recitals then audiences would dry up"  so, in effect, what he is saying that if there isn't enough audiences to go round then why bother with organ recitals in the first place.

 

Solo organ in the Proms.  ok  maybe he has a point here.  obviously the BBC have decided that one is enough.

 

HOWEVER, the RAH, as an institution, could promote organ recitals if it chose to do so.  Doesn't the RAH have a responsibility to promote organ music  having spent so much money on its instrument ?

 

Finally, if the economy will only allow 3 organ recitals per year then why on earth spend £1.7 million on restoring the organ in the first place ?  For use at Christmas an electronic could be hired in and the audiences that attend these concerts wouldn't know the difference.

 

Other concert halls use their organs and seem to have no trouble in getting good attendances.  Hull City Hall, someone mentioned,  Symphony Hall Birmingham, Victoria Hall Hanley.   It may very well be that trying to fill the much larger RAH for an organ recital is indeed impossible, or, at least, fill it enough, to cover costs.

I don't know.  Perhaps someone might explain this point.

 

If my points are wrong then I await to be corrected.

 

M.S.

 

I'll quite happily answer Michelle's points.

 

The RAH has a vast auditorium to fill and there is a fine line between viability and unviability in terms of use of the building and promoting concerts. We can assume that the RAH authorities know this only too well and have currently decided that three solo organ concerts per year are the best balance between none and so many more that the audience sizes drop because they have more choice. It's basic supply and demand.

 

The RAH doesn't only use the organ 3 times a year and at Christmas. There are many concerts and other events which use it - it's just that you aren't aware of it. And imagine the flutter in the hen house if they had decided to get an electronic and scarp the good old 'Father Willis' as the Proms seems to be insisting on calling it.

 

I think that it is a red herring and will just confuse the matter by referring to other cities, where the audience patterns are different from London, the options are greater in terms of venues and musical choice (I don't just mean the organ) and none of the venues are the same size, and in a similar location and as busy.

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What have audience levels been like for the RAH organ recitals so far? I wonder how many they need in the audience to break even.

 

 

Quite a reasonable turnout for David Goode's organ prom on Sunday afternoon - arena a bit sparse but stalls about half-full, say 1500+ overall.

 

A most thoughtful and unusual programme, not at all bombastic, and all played from memory as far as I could see. It's not often you hear a Böhm and a Bach CP at a 'secular' recital and 3 Russian rarities as well. Mozart K608 was done on bright small Great and Choir choruses with 8ft Pedal (no 16ft) - quite a revelation.

 

The middle section of Ad Nos seemed to got through most of the seldom heard Solo stops - Unda maris, strings, flutes, small reeds etc, even the Carillon. The only problem was that many of them were barely audible and it wasn't always easy to follow what Liszt was doing. The RAH organ must have the biggest dynamic range of any concert instrument. The big Tubas were saved until the last few bars - what a fantastic, effortlessly powerful sound! And everything absolutely in tune and fullywinded, too. The encore was that lovely little Prelude in E flat by William Harris.

 

JS

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